AEW - NOVEMBER 2023

[Cobra Commander]

16 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

it'd be real funny if they didn't reveal the Devil at the PPV at all

They gotta save something for Nassau next month

[HarryArchieGus]

20 hours ago, Casey said:

I’m really baffled by this, because it already exists. It’s on YouTube and Twitter, every week. Why does it need to be on TV?

Pretty sure the same argument was made about the Dark shows too, that they should be aired on television. Some stuff is just better as internet exclusives, and pre/post shows and interviews with a midcard ROH guy after he loses a match is exactly like that kind of content.

Baffled? I'm a bit Baffled by your em-baffle-ment of the difference between a Youtube/Twitter show and Television. But here goes 'nobody watches that lame duck show nor are most(?) ppl even aware it exists'. The very little I've seen of 'chat time with Abrahantes and Dasha' is not what I'm suggesting. As already mentioned, what I'm talking about is a show featuring the excellent 'Road To' style segments. I believe it would be a big help in selling the sizzle of the product. Yes, ROH on Honor Club does Post match promos with the ROH guys, some mid-carders. Not quite a fair comparison to the main televised stories featuring the key players, but it does suggest you don't like the idea, and that's cool. I agree, Dark was better as an internet exclusive.

Edited November 16, 2023 by HarryArchieGus

[Cobra Commander]

if the concept of syndicated wrestling didn't die 25 years ago, there'd be a case for an AEW syndicated show that is just all the stuff they want to emphasize from the cable shows and/or Internet stuff that they didn't put on Cable with an exclusive or two

hey maybe an exclusive match or two from ROH to nudge randos into paying them to get Honor Club to see the entire ROH show

but refer back to the first 11 words of this post as to why that's not happening

[Cobra Commander]

Dynamite got 823k last night, up from 818k last year (November 16th, 2022)

Cut to Chris Jericho riding a bike around the office with a sign insisting he's the Demo God.

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, Cobra Commander said:

if the concept of syndicated wrestling didn't die 25 years ago, there'd be a case for an AEW syndicated show that is just all the stuff they want to emphasize from the cable shows and/or Internet stuff that they didn't put on Cable with an exclusive or two

hey maybe an exclusive match or two from ROH to nudge randos into paying them to get Honor Club to see the entire ROH show

but refer back to the first 11 words of this post as to why that's not happening

What's the world record for giving up on a show as a promotion? I ask that because I am almost at the end of the my 1994 rewatch since it's mid November and Action Zone has started up as the replacement for All-American Wrestling. Keep in mind, Wrestling Challenge is starting to lose syndication in a bunch of markets. The inherent problem is the WWF is already taping between probably 18-21 matches per Superstars/Challenge/Raw depending on the taping cycle. That's 3-4 episodes apiece if you divide it into that many matches. You also have your obligatory dark matches like a WWF World or IC title match so you add another match or two. So with Action Zone, since they cannot eliminate a day for doing live events, they use all but one match from Challenge and have one exclusive match. As a result, since Challenge stopped doing featured matches back in late summer/early fall 1994, you get 4-5 meaningless matches and one featured match. Well, that's the idea. Except with Action Zone, the first week was Bret vs. Owen and that was pretty good. It pales in comparison to the other two televised Bret vs. Owen matches from 1994 but what wouldn't? The 2nd week is the infamous Shawn/Diesel vs. Kid/Razor match and that's a match of the year candidate. I DARE you to guess the featured matches in subsequent weeks on Action Zone after that. Don't have an answer? Well, you would have not guessed such gems as Lawler vs. Bob Holly and like Mabel vs. Yokozuna which went a tad bit too long. It's basically Challenge except your commentators are Vince and Todd Pettengill.

So they clearly didn't think this through cause the tapings are already too long. If you add another 3-4 matches, the crowd is going to be worn out beyond belief. Not that it stopped them before, but you want the crowd to give a damn for a brand new show. You basically added on to an already existing problem.

[(BP)]

I miss watching forty minutes of recaps of shows I already watched plus a Flash Funk vs Tom Brandi match, and then sticking around for an episode of USA High. 

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

14 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

What's the world record for giving up on a show as a promotion? I ask that because I am almost at the end of the my 1994 rewatch since it's mid November and Action Zone has started up as the replacement for All-American Wrestling. Keep in mind, Wrestling Challenge is starting to lose syndication in a bunch of markets. The inherent problem is the WWF is already taping between probably 18-21 matches per Superstars/Challenge/Raw depending on the taping cycle. That's 3-4 episodes apiece if you divide it into that many matches. You also have your obligatory dark matches like a WWF World or IC title match so you add another match or two. So with Action Zone, since they cannot eliminate a day for doing live events, they use all but one match from Challenge and have one exclusive match. As a result, since Challenge stopped doing featured matches back in late summer/early fall 1994, you get 4-5 meaningless matches and one featured match. Well, that's the idea. Except with Action Zone, the first week was Bret vs. Owen and that was pretty good. It pales in comparison to the other two televised Bret vs. Owen matches from 1994 but what wouldn't? The 2nd week is the infamous Shawn/Diesel vs. Kid/Razor match and that's a match of the year candidate. I DARE you to guess the featured matches in subsequent weeks on Action Zone after that. Don't have an answer? Well, you would have not guessed such gems as Lawler vs. Bob Holly and like Mabel vs. Yokozuna which went a tad bit too long. It's basically Challenge except your commentators are Vince and Todd Pettengill.

So they clearly didn't think this through cause the tapings are already too long. If you add another 3-4 matches, the crowd is going to be worn out beyond belief. Not that it stopped them before, but you want the crowd to give a damn for a brand new show. You basically added on to an already existing problem.

That almost sounds like when the WCW Power Hour became nothing but two-week old Worldwide or WCW Pro matches with redubbed commentary from whoever was hosting Power Hour that week, except they'd throw in a random "bonus" match (whether Paul Orndorff vs. the Z-Man is a true bonus is for you, gentle reader, to decide).

[Zakk_Sabbath]

24 minutes ago, Sparkleface said:

That almost sounds like when the WCW Power Hour became nothing but two-week old Worldwide or WCW Pro matches with redubbed commentary from whoever was hosting Power Hour that week, except they'd throw in a random "bonus" match (whether Paul Orndorff vs. the Z-Man is a true bonus is for you, gentle reader, to decide).

I mean, I love shit like that, and I know a bunch of us do, but it is kinda hard to argue with the idea of less hours being more (as said by many last page) when you look at those shows as the model. It was always the same story, similar to what @Elsalvajelocois talking about with Action Zone:

'97: Main Event gets demoted to recap show, moved to Saturday morning, cancelled. '98: Pro gets demoted to recap show, moved to Saturday morning, canceled. 2000: Worldwide gets demoted to recap show, WCW canceled.

Superstars and Action Zone both went that way before '96 or '97 was out

Edit: Action Zone in the technical sense only since I THINK it was that hour used for Livewire?

It really seems like A-B-C or A1-A2-B is like the ideal sweet spot in terms of importance for a multi-show promotion (or at least that's where they always later seem to land) so I'm good with AEW not adding another second of programming.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Zakk_Sabbath

[Jenalysis]

My limit is two shows per week.  In 2019 I was doing Dynamite+MLW mostly

In 2020, it was the pandemic year, so things pretty much were take what you could get and be thankful

In 2021, When Rampage started that was my two shows

When Collision started, I stopped with Rampage (the only Rampage match I remember in the past six months vs Romero vs Mistico)

A1/A2/a weird B might be AEW's best option.  Dynamite and Collision should be the main shows, with Collision having a different vibe.  Rampage needs to be the weird wrestling show.  Give me foreign wrestlers and freakshow matches.

 

AEW is saturated now.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Jenalysis

[Cobra Commander]

1 hour ago, (BP) said:

I miss watching forty minutes of recaps of shows I already watched plus a Flash Funk vs Tom Brandi match, and then sticking around for an episode of USA High. 

recap shows were probably great when a significant portion of the WWF's fanbase was made up of kids who couldn't stay up past a certain time. Also places where the WWF's syndication had one of their main shows at an inaccessible time (looking at you, markets which had Superstars of Wrestling after Saturday Night Live)

now if you believe recent ratings data, that problem might not be as pressing these days

it is kinda interesting that companies can actually generate a lot of content that could fill TV time, and they don't put it on TV due to the other stuff they're broadcasting

[zendragon]

On 11/15/2023 at 4:45 PM, Casey said:

I’m really baffled by this, because it already exists. It’s on YouTube and Twitter, every week. Why does it need to be on TV?

Pretty sure the same argument was made about the Dark shows too, that they should be aired on television. Some stuff is just better as internet exclusives, and pre/post shows and interviews with a midcard ROH guy after he loses a match is exactly like that kind of content.

I felt it was a strong promo by Dalton that could be used for character building if they feel like doing something with him other just be a guy who shows up to lose here and there

[NoFistsJustFlips]

I don't know why I am pitching this because I hate brand splits. But the only way to make multiple shows relevant is a brand split. Would WWE's viewership be as healthy as it is if all three shows were the same rosters and mostly the same identities? WWE has 7 first run hours. But it really doesn't feel like it. Because Raw has 3, Smackdown has 2, NXT has 2. You know the pool of talent that will possibly appear and which stories cold be focused on.

When WWE killed the original brand split for a bit from 2014 - 2016 it made both shows feel less than (other than NXT which really thrived by having a different roster & format). Less titles were great. But 5 hours of thea main roster felt like a chore. And made Smackdown feel so irrelevant. That's kind of how AEW feels to me. They also technically have 7 hours of first run TV as well (counting ROH), but it all feels the same. It's a muddied. There's no identities.

If done correctly I really think a brand split is the answer. Dynamite, Collision, ROH Rampage. 3 distinct rosters. 3 distinct set of stories. An A brand, a B brand, and a developmental brand. Yes it's similar to WWE's format. But if AEW is insistent that they need this much content you have to give purpose to that content. Scrap Battle of The Belts completely. Extend Rampage to two hours if necessary. Give it the real sports feel WWE never has. Make Dynamite Jericho & The Elite's hangout with a more WWE like sports entertainment presentation. Make Collision the show that's a gritty no nonsense brand anchored by BCC, HOB, & LFI kinda like 1992 WCW. ROH can still be the pure sport band. Rankings and handshakes lea heavy into technical wrestling

One men's World Champion. He can appear on all 3 brands.
One Women's World Champion. She can appear on all 3 brands.
One set of World Tag Champions. They can appear on all 3 brands.
One set of World Trios Titles. They can appear on all 3 brands.

Dynamite gets the Men's International Title & Women's TBS Title.
Collision gets The Men's TNT Title & Women's International Title.
ROH Rampage gets The Men's Pure Champion & The Women's Pure Champion.

Purpose. Parity. Identities. My DMs are open TK. Let's talk.

[Shartnado]

On 11/15/2023 at 11:39 PM, hobo joe said:

If we're fantasy booking the AEW mini-G1, i'd do:

A Block

• Bryan Danielson
• Kenny Omega
• Konosuke Takeshita
• Buddy Matthews
• Eddie Kingston
• Daniel Garcia

B Block

• Claudio Castagnoli
• Hangman Page
• Powerhouse Hobbs
• Juice Robinson
• Swerve Strickland
• Action Andretti

 

Run another Danielson Omega draw as the A Block finals, Hangman Swerve III as the B Block finals. Danielson vs Swerve at the PPV with Swerve going over.

Aside from replacing Juice with PAC (should he be healthy) and MAYBE Hobbs with Brian Cage (in order to protect Hobbs from taking too many losses) this sounds about exactly what I'd like to see.

[Matt D]

21 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

I'm gonna say it again: NO CALLIHAN. Also, it'd be real funny if they didn't reveal the Devil at the PPV at all, but that's not gonna happen. How Mercedes would even fit into being the devil is beyond me but yeah, it would be at least pretty interesting. 

If need be, I can whip up a powerpoint presentation about the CEO of Pinnacle Enterprises challenging Shida at World's End as her Vice President of Dismemberment, Wardlow, challenges MJF. Tag me in Tony. It beats Jack Perry.

At this stage, the other possibility that would at least give them forward momentum would be David Finlay and a Bullet Club invasion where they're targeting everyone. But that seems hard to operationalize.

[Casey]

I don’t see a world where Finlay and his band of Dojo scrubs gives AEW any kind of momentum besides negative momentum.

[Curt McGirt]

Maybe instead of the new signing our Devil is 

Spoiler

Dolph Ziggler

HA! Book THAT one, Matt.

[ChrisPBacon]

20 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Baffled? I'm a bit Baffled by your em-baffle-ment of the difference between a Youtube/Twitter show and Television. But here goes 'nobody watches that lame duck show nor are most(?) ppl even aware it exists'. The very little I've seen of 'chat time with Abrahantes and Dasha' is not what I'm suggesting. As already mentioned, what I'm talking about is a show featuring the excellent 'Road To' style segments. I believe it would be a big help in selling the sizzle of the product. Yes, ROH on Honor Club does Post match promos with the ROH guys, some mid-carders. Not quite a fair comparison to the main televised stories featuring the key players, but it does suggest you don't like the idea, and that's cool. I agree, Dark was better as an internet exclusive.

Im sure AEW can cut a 22 minute opening match and a 35 minute main event to incorporate some control center segment with a card run down from Schiavone.  It may seem antiquated to some or nostalgic to a few of us that appreciated that when we were younger, but itd go a long way in balancing out the action in the ring with progressing storylines and keeping general interest. Then when Renee Paquette is doing backstage segments, it doesnt have to seem so repetitive (like one pre tape promo back to back)  when during the card run down, wrestlers can cut quick promos ala the beginning of Collision.  Also, more recaps!  Audience viewing fluctuates, and it helps to stay up on what is happening from last week.

Edited November 17, 2023 by ChrisPBacon

[Matt D]

1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

Maybe instead of the new signing our Devil is 

  Hide contents

Dolph Ziggler

HA! Book THAT one, Matt.

WWE gets the AEW video library in 2025.

[zendragon]

I don’t know if this person is getting signed tomorrow but holy shit at who showed In ROH

Spoiler

Rhonda Rousey teaming with Shafir v Athena and Billy

 

[Matt D]

But they already have a Leyla Hirsch.

[twiztor]

On 11/15/2023 at 5:02 PM, NoFistsJustFlips said:

It's an MCU problem. Too much content dissuades people from keeping up with the stories. I know this is a wrestling forum full of wrestling fans, so my opinion might not be shared. But I miss the time where all AEW had was Dynamite.

speaking only for myself here. When AEW only had Dynamite, i watched it every week. Then they added Rampage and i caught that every week. Then a quarterly Battle of the Belts and i would watch that too. But then they added a third weekly show, Collision. It passed the breaking point for me. Now i watch Dynamite every week, BotB every quarter, and will only catch Rampage or Collision if there is an absolute can't miss match (MJF vs Omega a few weeks ago being the most recent example). I don't engage on YouTube or anything. They over filled the bucket.

[Casey]

57 minutes ago, zendragon said:

I don’t know if this person is getting signed tomorrow but holy shit at who showed In ROH

  Reveal hidden contents

Rhonda Rousey teaming with Shafir v Athena and Billy

 

It won’t be the person signing a contract, but I hope they stick around. I really enjoyed most of what I saw in WWE, honestly.

[Matt D]

I'm probably overall happier with the current set up than I was with Elevation/Dark/Dynamite, but it is a little close. But I loved Dark and Elevation and obviously you "too much wrestling" folks didn't. Collision has more of the matches I want to watch in any single week and far less of the stuff I don't want which would be on Dynamite one way or another. It's almost entirely a gain for me. My biggest issue isn't the amount of wrestling, just the days of the week. Having shows on Monday and Tuesday worked better for my life than Thursday and Saturday. From a DVDVR perspective, a comp tape perspective, we're way better off and we might not realize that for years until someone starts organizing this stuff, because it's easy for it to get lost now. What does anyone remember about the Danielson vs Starks Texas Death Match, for instance. Just an example. 

One other thing: I actually think Tony is happier if you hear him talk right now. He thinks they're on the best run of PPVs ever and one of the best runs ever and he attributes that to the extra TV letting him lay more track down. He also obviously likes being able to use more of the roster and book more matches he wants to book.

[hammerva]

I have to assume that she is all of AEW like most of the roster.  I mean I can't imagine a person who complained about how she was treated dealing with Wrestlemania for fuck sakes is going to be fine with being on a streaming service promotion.

I didn't watch the match she and Marina had with Billie Starkz & Athena at the Revolver show but from what I did see it seemed she was WAY more cooperative then I imagined 

[ChrisPBacon]

Chris Hero returned to the ring a few days ago against Timothy Thatcher in California.  I would say he is definitely respected by most in the AEW locker room.

Edited November 18, 2023 by ChrisPBacon