Dynamite - 10/12/2022

[stuntmanc]

45 minutes ago, Pedro said:

but isn't Page "an empty headed dumb fuck who goes into business for himself"  in the eyes of many?

Only in the eyes of an overrated manchild who got mad someone made "mean" comments about him.

 

(Natural has Hogan, Just Drew has Cole/Bucks......I have CM Punk, lol)

[stuntmanc]

46 minutes ago, Pedro said:

but isn't Page "an empty headed dumb fuck who goes into business for himself"  in the eyes of many?

Double post!

Edited October 13, 2022 by StuntmanCrowley

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

37 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

I'm hurt. 

Consider it revenge for that time you bashed adult coloring books.

[just drew]

5 minutes ago, StuntmanCrowley said:

Only in the eyes of an overrated manchild who got mad someone made "mean" comments about him.

 

(Natural has Hogan, Just Drew has Cole/Bucks......I have CM Punk, lol)

I don’t like hogan or punk either, but I doubt I’ll face as much backlash for those… ;)…

[just drew]

983k for Dynamite. Viewership had to be hurt somewhat by the Braves playing @ 730 rather than 430. There’s a ton of overlap in those two fan bases…

[stuntmanc]

36 minutes ago, just drew said:

I don’t like hogan or punk either, but I doubt I’ll face as much backlash for those… ;)…

You know, I don't agree with you on the Cole/Bucks thing 100%, but I absolutely see where you're coming from with them.  Especially Cole.  I just don't understand how he's so over with the live crowds or honestly understand him at all.

The Bucks, I said in another thread, I love some of their matches, and two of them (Page/Omega v Bucks and Lucha Bros/Bucks cage match) I'd put in the pantheon of some of AEW's best, but nothing about them makes me want to seek them out.

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

9 hours ago, tbarrie said:

Gunn has definitely been the least giving old guy/legend on the AEW roster, but I didn't see this particular match as being that bad. Swerve was never made to look like a joke or anything.

Didn't look like a joke, but the whole scenario didn't exactly do anything for anyone.

The guy's still in a big program with the white hot tag champs, he's a former champ himself who gets featured heavily on the programs. Why do I care whether he still has a beef (largely around how they should have beaten The Acclaimed if it wasn't for Billy on the outside) with the champs, if he can barely beat a semi-active old guy after cheating? And then after that, the focus shifts to a different program with Nese/Sterling who no-one really care about either based on the dumb premise of copyright infringement? He's now an after-thought for an after-thought. Even if they'd had Swerve take 80% of the match, and then cheat anyway to beat Billy, because he's now Sneaky Swerve, there's some character progression in that.

It's a continuing issue in the promotion where guys finally get the title they've chased, and then go on to do absolutely nothing of note with them, to a point where you actively question whether I'm supposed to care anymore, and that arc is now finished.

 

[(BP)]

It’s funny that it turned out Ten got plugged into the program with Andrade just so he could lose his gimmick before Spears came back, and it got so dramatically screwed up without any participation from Ten or Spears themselves. 

[DEAN]

COMPLETELY GNARLY!

 

[zendragon]

15 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

Didn't look like a joke, but the whole scenario didn't exactly do anything for anyone.

The guy's still in a big program with the white hot tag champs, he's a former champ himself who gets featured heavily on the programs. Why do I care whether he still has a beef (largely around how they should have beaten The Acclaimed if it wasn't for Billy on the outside) with the champs, if he can barely beat a semi-active old guy after cheating? And then after that, the focus shifts to a different program with Nese/Sterling who no-one really care about either based on the dumb premise of copyright infringement? He's now an after-thought for an after-thought. Even if they'd had Swerve take 80% of the match, and then cheat anyway to beat Billy, because he's now Sneaky Swerve, there's some character progression in that.

It's a continuing issue in the promotion where guys finally get the title they've chased, and then go on to do absolutely nothing of note with them, to a point where you actively question whether I'm supposed to care anymore, and that arc is now finished.

 

And it ain't exactly like Nese & Woods are these massive world beaters.... Right now the most interesting teams (as far as programs not just over) are FTR and Warjoe

[zendragon]

Watching this back the "kid" stuff reminds me of people seemingly using "millennial" as synonym for child. Millennial's both simultaneously teenagers and 40 year olds  and Mox is only 5 years older than Hangman 

Edited October 13, 2022 by zendragon

[tbarrie]

52 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

The guy's still in a big program with the white hot tag champs, he's a former champ himself who gets featured heavily on the programs. Why do I care whether he still has a beef (largely around how they should have beaten The Acclaimed if it wasn't for Billy on the outside) with the champs, if he can barely beat a semi-active old guy after cheating? And then after that, the focus shifts to a different program with Nese/Sterling who no-one really care about either based on the dumb premise of copyright infringement? He's now an after-thought for an after-thought. Even if they'd had Swerve take 80% of the match, and then cheat anyway to beat Billy, because he's now Sneaky Swerve, there's some character progression in that.

Maybe I need to rewatch the match, but your "even if" closing sentence is pretty close to the way I remember it going. I don't recall Gunn ever outwrestling Swerve; when he took control it was pretty much through size/power spots. And he is visibly bigger and stronger-looking than Swerve, no matter how old he is, so I don't think that hurts Swerve any.

But why the fuck am I defending Billy Gunn? When Crowley was running down which posters have an irrational hatred for which wrestlers, I was totally going to lay claim to Gunn. That's pretty much shot now. I guess I can try to wrest the title of top Cole detractor from Drew. He's got the Bucks, he doesn't need Cole too!

[BrianS81177]

Yeah, Billy Gunn may be almost 60 but he looks like he could still kick the shit out of anyone who crosses him. 

[For Great Justice]

36 minutes ago, zendragon said:

Mox is only 5 years older than Hangman 

that’s a HARD five years though. It’s like 20 in non-Mox years 

[Greggulator]

Also, Mark Sterling as a trademark/patent troll (that is a real thing) stealing the rights to the Scissor Me phrase is glorious wrestling stupidity. I love it so much.

[Casey]

28 minutes ago, BrianS81177 said:

Yeah, Billy Gunn may be almost 60 but he looks like he could still kick the shit out of anyone who crosses him. 

It's true, Daddy Ass passes the DVDVR forearm test.

[kafkonia]

Bringing back Spears for a Canada-enhanced pop on Wednesday only to turn him on Friday while still in Canada would be some peak WWE nonsense booking. Hopefully they just segue WarJoe out of the feud for the moment rather than worrying about evening up sides.

Then FTR and Spears can beat Death Triangle for the trios title and we can begin the Shawn Spears, Belt Collector storyline.

 

[The Natural]

[The Idiot King]

One of the cool things about AEW is that working the tag division doesn't feel like a demotion, even when you are slapping two guys together who would, in some contexts, be considered 'above' that (I'm thinking of War(d)Joe and Lee/Swerve here). I'm sure this has to do, in part, with having so much focus on FTR and The Bucks over the past three years. I think they have easily the best tag division in the world. It all feels like it matters. Being tag champ is a desired position to have (as evidenced by how everyone loves the Acclaimed). I like what WWE is doing with the Usos, but once they lose the belts, I am not sure how that plays out.

I like how they're re-pushing Shida. It's been subtle, but has not been unclear. Big fan of the Youtube shows, however misguided that might be. The Taz/Excalibur podcast is one of my favorite things whenever it comes out.

I wanna echo the Mox/Page segment being good. It made me look up from whatever else I was doing. I like the gray area stuff with both, it doesn't feel reactive to the crowd in the sense of "Since you are booing me, I will have to figure out how to react to this." I like Page responding to his name in this moment. I am higher on him than a lot of people -- though, I also like Seth Rollins. He does more for me than Kenny, and maybe that's some version of regionalism but I like the way he sells what he's doing. I think the amount of time he has been with the Dark Order has mattered a lot in terms of his character, and somehow even if he loses, his story matters a lot more now than it did when CM Punk was around (though, please, that's a dream match -- I hope there's enough money at some point to make it happen). I can see him being empty-headed, but I think that has only helped him so far. MJF makes sense as a part of this, and I am into it until it gets fucked up. I like that both companies have now embraced the (I think, totally boring, common sense) idea of multiple storylines all intersecting with each other again. 

 

 

[The Natural]

11 hours ago, StuntmanCrowley said:

Only in the eyes of an overrated manchild who got mad someone made "mean" comments about him.

 

(Natural has Hogan, Just Drew has Cole/Bucks......I have CM Punk, lol)

Certainly do. Fuck Hogan. Hated Hulk Hogan ever since a kid as he couldn't wrestle, always won, his backstage politics and even more, he's a fucking racist. 

11 hours ago, just drew said:

I don’t like hogan or punk either, but I doubt I’ll face as much backlash for those… ;)…

I like CM Punk.

11 hours ago, StuntmanCrowley said:

You know, I don't agree with you on the Cole/Bucks thing 100%, but I absolutely see where you're coming from with them.  Especially Cole.  I just don't understand how he's so over with the live crowds or honestly understand him at all.

The Bucks, I said in another thread, I love some of their matches, and two of them (Page/Omega v Bucks and Lucha Bros/Bucks cage match) I'd put in the pantheon of some of AEW's best, but nothing about them makes me want to seek them out.

I think the Young Bucks are overrated. There's things in life you either get or don't. Adam Cole's the latter, he's never done anything for me.

Edited October 14, 2022 by The Natural

[Greggulator]

I actually think Adam Cole returning to save ROH from Chris Jericho would be a pretty great feud. People want to root for Adam Cole. Seeing him - one of the dirtiest players in the game - defending the legacy of ROH and trying to usurp the crown from a sports entertainer would be a lot of fun. 

Adam Cole is not a good heel. He does not get a lot of heel heat. Or any heel heat. He tries to but it doesn't work. They should lean into his natural likability. He really comes off in all of his in real life stuff as a really good, nerdy and funny guy. He could be a really great rogue face like Eddie Guerrero circa Lie, Cheat and Steal where the fans are in on it and want to see what clever stuff he has up his sleeve to pull out the win.  We haven't seen anyone do that in a while.

[Leonidas]

That was a big fiery babyface promo from Hangman, solidifying him as a baby even if there were very little doubts in the firstplace. Not sure how they're going to book a Baby/Baby title match in Mox's hometown without Page coming off as weak if he loses. Mox is bulletproof to losses, but how do you get Page to win in front of the man's family without being a heel?

[Greggulator]

I finally caught up with the show. 

That main event ruled. It's one of my favorite AEW matches. It also felt like (again) it was a bit cramped for time but they still told a great story. OC and Pac are such fantastic foils and yin-and-yang. It's like a real life Bugs Bunny/Wile E. Coyote where OC is a step ahead of Pac most of the time, except Pac has managed to drop a proverbial anvil on his head via the timekeeper's hammer. 

I will gladly take arguments that OC is the best worker in the world. I will make that argument, even though the amount of wrestling I watch is way less than everyone else. But every match I have seen him have this year has been absolutely perfect for what they are going for, and I still haven't even seen the Osperey match. 

Someone with a heavily gimmicked character like OC can really find themselves limited. Santino was a fantastic performer and great wrestler but was always kept at the comedy level. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and there's a huge value in having someone who can carve out 15-20 minutes on a Tv show with ridiculousness. It's not insane to me that OC managed to get the character over because it's funny to start with (Paul Rudd from Wet Hot American Summer) and he's super talented.

But OC has managed to take a ridiculous gimmick and turn it into match psychology. He's so good at a cat-and-mouse match where he frustrates "serious" wrestlers constantly. But the matches are almost always really good traditional underdog match structures made special with his panache. Pac did vicious heel stuff on the floor to set up the "babyface rallying to beat the 10 count" spot we see all of the time. But OC did this by rolling down the elevated ramp to get closer to the ring. That is just so much fun.

Pac constantly trying to get the hammer but being cut off first by BRyce and then almost by Danhausen was also great. Pac was fantastic in his reactions, too. 

The end of the match was really special. Unless I don't remember it, they probably could have added in an OC kickout from Pac's finisher to rally the crowd back. But just the double Orange Punch was a great way to have a definitive win. Having the second punch let OC have a more dramatic pinfall that let him sell just a little bit longer to the pin and explaining why Pac couldn't kick out.

OC really is a genius performer. I have no idea if he lays out his own matches or how they work. But they are all so friggin' good. Once his in-ring career is over (and I never want it to be over), he would be a fantastic agent. He's a really creative guy and I can see him putting together all sorts of masterpieces for all kinds of wrestlers.

[porksweats]

16 minutes ago, Greggulator said:

I actually think Adam Cole returning to save ROH from Chris Jericho would be a pretty great feud. People want to root for Adam Cole. Seeing him - one of the dirtiest players in the game - defending the legacy of ROH and trying to usurp the crown from a sports entertainer would be a lot of fun. 

Adam Cole is not a good heel. He does not get a lot of heel heat. Or any heel heat. He tries to but it doesn't work. They should lean into his natural likability. He really comes off in all of his in real life stuff as a really good, nerdy and funny guy. He could be a really great rogue face like Eddie Guerrero circa Lie, Cheat and Steal where the fans are in on it and want to see what clever stuff he has up his sleeve to pull out the win.  We haven't seen anyone do that in a while.

As someone who is not a fan of Cole, I'm more than willing to give him a chance as a Face

[DEAN]

35 minutes ago, Greggulator said:

I will gladly take arguments that OC is the best worker in the world. I will make that argument, even though the amount of wrestling I watch is way less than everyone else. But every match I have seen him have this year has been absolutely perfect for what they are going for, and I still haven't even seen the Osperey match. 

Oh, that match is even better than this.  It's a total clash of styles where Ospreay is totally reeled in and wrestles a US Pro Style match- and he's really GOOD at US Pro Style.  WHO KNEW?  OC is a genius.