WWE RAW 12/14/15

[JRGoldman]

I am confounded that people thought the reaction to Reigns winning the title was "lukewarm". They were quiet for his entrance, which is probably the product of a three hour show and the fact that he had already made two appearances on it, but the crowd got progressively louder as the match went on, bought in to the nearfalls and were really loud by the end and for the title switch.

 

I don't want to be cynical because this was a really good Raw with a really good crowd, but does anyone else think they did this show and title switch to try and pop a rating for next week when Coke is sponsoring, so they can attract other big advertisers like that? 

[Raziel]

I am confounded that people thought the reaction to Reigns winning the title was "lukewarm". 

Cognitive dissonance and all that, believing something that didn't happen to fit their narrative that Roman will "never be over"

[Patrick B.]

Well, your guy won.

[MonteCarl]

With Reigns finally winning the title last night and being heavily involved with the McMahons, they can't hold off on the inevitable HHH/Reigns match. I see that happening at the Rumble. So, with Reigns now the Champ and not being in the Rumble, who does that put in the running to actually WIN the Rumble this year?

 

It seems like a sure thing that Brock will be the one going after the title at Mania, but do they put in the Rumble and having him destroy everything and everybody? While that could be entertaining, it would also be pretty predictable. I'd like them to do something more unexpected at the Rumble and have a dark horse win the thing. Somebody like Ambrose or Kevin Owens would be interesting. But then, instead of that winner going on to Mania for the title, the next night The Authority (after HHH losing to Reigns the night before) come out and announce that they have made a deal to bring back Brock Lesnar, with the caveat being that Lesnar wants a shot at the title. To make it fair to the winner of the Rumble, that man gets to defend his title shot against Brock at the next PPV. Brock, of course, wins and then goes on to face Reigns at Mania. This gets us an different and unpredictable ending for the Rumble rather than Brock just flat out winning the thing and giving that rub to somebody new, and give us a fresh match for Brock in the lead-up to Mania.

[Vincey Greene]

 

I am confounded that people thought the reaction to Reigns winning the title was "lukewarm". 

Cognitive dissonance and all that, believing something that didn't happen to fit their narrative that Roman will "never be over"

 

 

 

Run it back and compare it to anyone surprisingly winning the World title ever. Fuck, compare it to RVD winning an IC title.

 

 

Lowered expectations are weird.

[Patrick B.]

If it pops a rating and the fans like it, good for them.

 

Honestly wasn't paying much attention after the match ended.  I have to work in the morning so I sign off pretty quickly once the show wraps up.

[Just Dave]

 

 

I cannot wait for Geordie Miz

 

I really have been loving this storyline. In spite of his ring skills, Miz has a great personality. So they're doing a great job letting him be self-involved undercard sleaze who rarely wrestles. And putting Neville in Miz's orbit should do plenty to make him appealing to Raw viewers by virtue of comparison. 

 

It's simple, fun stuff. And it's yet to devolve into 50/50 win trading. So I dig. 

 

Though I'll take any bone they throw at Neville at this point. Great NXT run where he developed into a performer who's believable at the top as a face or a heel. Best NXT match ever, IMO, vs Zayn at R-Evolution. Possibly the TV match of the year against Rollins. I need to see this guy succeed more than anyone else floating aimlessly in the undercard. 

 

 

The best solution is to bring back the Cruiserweight division for him- a guy like Neville is made to be a Cruiserweight champ who only wrestles other cruisers.

 

As for Roman- the best booking writes itself.  Have Steph show she's the brains behind HHH and Vince- take them out of "official" decision-making, then get outsmarted herself (perhaps with help from Ambrose- who she should be trying to turn against Roman , and Ambrose tricks her into thinking she has)- Steph gets thrown out of power screaming the next night.   End up with a figurehead raw GM- Bret or Foley would be perfect for this- and make sure they never show up unless absolutely necessary.

 

If someone gets Steph off TV for over a year, they'd be a made man for life by WWE fans.

 

I read this, then put together a quick cruiserweight roster in my head; just guys on the main roster or about to be called up, you have Neville, Breeze, Fernando, Diego, Sin Cara, Kalisto, Hideo, Zayn, Slater, Ryder, and others, I'm sure. Would be a good way to get more guys on tv, and fill more TV time, so I'm sure it'll never happen...

[goc]

I don't want to be cynical because this was a really good Raw with a really good crowd, but does anyone else think they did this show and title switch to try and pop a rating for next week when Coke is sponsoring, so they can attract other big advertisers like that? 

 

Why is that a bad thing? People have been complaining about them not paying attention to the ratings going down and not changing anything in response so where is the issue? Shouldn't we be happy that they showed they could write a quality show in an attempt to bring ratings up?

[MORELOCK]

I read this, then put together a quick cruiserweight roster in my head; just guys on the main roster or about to be called up, you have Neville, Breeze, Fernando, Diego, Sin Cara, Kalisto, Hideo, Zayn, Slater, Ryder, and others, I'm sure. Would be a good way to get more guys on tv, and fill more TV time, so I'm sure it'll never happen...

 

Reinstating the Cruiserweight title would also reinstate the glass ceiling above all of those guys - while most of them wouldn't have gotten that far anyway, I'd like to think they have higher hopes for Zayn and Kalisto.

[JCM]

I don't see the need for a cruiser division when most everyone in the WWE works an up tempo high spot oriented style anyway. I'd rather see a tv title that gets defended every week on Raw.

 

As for Roman's getting over and the pop he got I'd say it was good, but not overwhelming. Of course people are going to pop for a title change on Raw because that sort of thing just doesn't happen anymore. The real test comes in the following weeks where Roman has to keep his momentum while working opposite Steph and HHH instead of Vince.

 

It's pretty weird seeing baby faces actually win and get one over on the heels. Maybe this is what they meant by major changes "we're going to stop booking the baby faces like idiotic choke artists."

[Technico Support]

So one age-old formula in wrestling is: guy poised to challenge for a title is beaten on his road to the belt.  Then he wins the belt and has a ready-made challenger.

 

Based on the first segment, Roman's first opponent is Stephanie, right?

[goc]

It's pretty weird seeing baby faces actually win and one over on the heels. Maybe this is what they meant by major changes "we're going to stop booking the baby faces like idiotic choke artists."

I'm not sure why WWE ever even got into that kind of rut. This is a company that was built on Bruno being the tough babyface who beat everyone who tried him. They killed off the territories on the back of Hogan being the American Superhero who beat everyone in his path for like 6 years straight. They killed off WCW by having Austin winning against the odds while the nWo was busy killing off any baby faces the crowd liked. And they managed to right the ship and get things back on track with Cena being the new top guy after things went in the toilet during the "HHH cuts the balls off of everyone the fans get behind" in 2002-2003.

 

After all that, why the fuck did we get the last 2 years of baby faces being made to look like shit?

[BReal]

I am confounded that people thought the reaction to Reigns winning the title was "lukewarm". They were quiet for his entrance, which is probably the product of a three hour show and the fact that he had already made two appearances on it, but the crowd got progressively louder as the match went on, bought in to the nearfalls and were really loud by the end and for the title switch.

 

I don't want to be cynical because this was a really good Raw with a really good crowd, but does anyone else think they did this show and title switch to try and pop a rating for next week when Coke is sponsoring, so they can attract other big advertisers like that? 

I was there...it was anything but lukewarm. Hell, I was never a Roman supporter, but even I was losing my shit during the main event. I haven't been to a RAW in over a decade, but I am so glad I got the opportunity to attend last night. This had to have been one of the best episodes all year...made even better by not having to listen to Maggle Cole and crew.

[nate]

Not to harp on the issue, but anyone in IWC bitching about the unprotected trash can lid head shot from Bray to Bubba?

And they keep trotting out Dreamer and his TBI, but Bryan is off TV indefinitely. If you're going with a bullshit narrative, at least maintain some consistency.

[goc]

Not to harp on the issue, but anyone in IWC bitching about the unprotected trash can lid head shot from Bray to Bubba?

 

No, they aren't. Because it's a flimsy ass aluminum trash can lid not a steel chair. It'd be like getting hit over the head with one of these:

 

[Hollywood Cibernetico]

I'm sorry, are people actually complaining that Roman didn't get some sort of revenge on Steph and/or got slapped by her?

 

Yes. This is a big problem with Stephanie and the modern group-think of WWE. It's simple for me, in prowrestling a heel should always get what is coming to him/her. Plain and simple. WWE having a character that NEVER has to answer for his/her actions is counter productive. Sure, Stephanie will indirectly answer for her actions (her dad gets taken out later in the night and/or something happens to Hunter), but what happens to Stephanie? WWE is so obsessed with no male on female stuff but the female on male stuff is okay? It just don't come off good on TV as the situation is either:

 

A. Ryback looks like a complete dork because of WWE group-think

 

B. Reigns looks like a complete moron because of WWE group-think

 

Its like a lot of things in WWE, either shit-or-get-off-the-pot! WWE should just get rid of ALL intergender violence and it would resolve the problem. WWE is sending the wrong message (a message a lot of society loves to send out for some reason) that its okay for women to slap the shit out of men and expect no returns on the investment. Again, the best approach is just to get rid of it all. No more intergender violence unless WWE wants to make it equal (which will get some people upset). Stephanie Mcmahon is the most protected heel in the company right now.

[Overly Critical Man]

Just have Tamina superkick Steph or something.

[Raziel]

But Nia has that distant family relation

[Technico Support]

 

I'm sorry, are people actually complaining that Roman didn't get some sort of revenge on Steph and/or got slapped by her?

 

Yes. This is a big problem with Stephanie and the modern group-think of WWE. It's simple for me, in prowrestling a heel should always get what is coming to him/her. Plain and simple. WWE having a character that NEVER has to answer for his/her actions is counter productive. Sure, Stephanie will indirectly answer for her actions (her dad gets taken out later in the night and/or something happens to Hunter), but what happens to Stephanie? WWE is so obsessed with no male on female stuff but the female on male stuff is okay? It just don't come off good on TV as the situation is either:

 

A. Ryback looks like a complete dork because of WWE group-think

 

B. Reigns looks like a complete moron because of WWE group-think

 

Its like a lot of things in WWE, either shit-or-get-off-the-pot! WWE should just get rid of ALL intergender violence and it would resolve the problem. WWE is sending the wrong message (a message a lot of society loves to send out for some reason) that its okay for women to slap the shit out of men and expect no returns on the investment. Again, the best approach is just to get rid of it all. No more intergender violence unless WWE wants to make it equal (which will get some people upset). Stephanie Mcmahon is the most protected heel in the company right now.

 

 

This feels like some weird MRA shit that I'm not going to get into ("women can be abusers tooooooo"), but I will agree that Stephanie should not have been allowed to slap the shit out of the company's top face (pardon the pun) with zero recourse.  One slap, realize what you just did, get scared and get out of the ring quickly is typical heel MO.  But that?  What the fuck was that?  And then they crowed about showing Roman's beat up face on social media.  What was the point of that aside from getting Stephanie over as a badass at the expense of Reigns?  Where is the money in this angle?

 

Stephanie's role is ridiculous.  She's not a heel; because heels eventually get their comeuppance.  She's just feeding her own ego at this point.  She's tougher, smarter and more powerful than all the wrestlers and she has to make sure everybody knows it every single week.  It's tiresome.  Vince showed her how it's done and she should be embarrassed about whatever it is she's supposed to be doing on TV.

[evilwaldo]

Vince doing that dead pan "ehh put err there pal" handshake and then kicking Roman in the nuts had me laughing my ass off for a good few minutes. It was just so unexpected and so Vince. You'd think with all that gear Roman wears the guy would wear a tatical cup. You want to make Roman look like a super bad ass/crazy samoan you kick him in the balls and he just looks at you with with a death stare and Vince does his gulp of doom.

 

That last dash of ECW was so much fun. It was amusing the clips showed stuff from Queens, but alas that was one hell of a brawl and did a ton to build the Wyatt's back up. I think Tommy Dreamer might also be broken in half for real. The attempted fire spot would have been great tonight.

 

So clearly the whole one last title shot/if you dont win you're fired was a hail mary on the WWE's part with Vince being trotted out. The Giants/Phins game was fairly competitive so it should be interesting to see how it held up. A few minutes after it was over the only thing trending on Twitter since they love that sort of stuff (at least in the United States) was WWETitle for them. The rest was football related.

 

I really hope they don't Dusty finish this somehow.

 

But man I thought Vince was legit dead on that apron at the end of the show. He was just there and Roman just kicked him off like a wet sack.

 

 

For Vince, the WWETitle was the only thing that mattered in terms of trending.  He put over the new champ and that is what doing the job is all about.

 

The way he sold the superman punch was tremendous.  When you watch the setup he stepped back with the ref in hand to get in position to take the punch.  Sells it like he is dead and lets the new champ kick him off the apron.  What a sell job by the master.  

 

Even go back to when Reigns came over the barrier to Vince's taunting.  That was fantastic.  The facial expressions on the split camera shots?  Perfect.  Vince hit all the right buttons live.

 

Vince owned last night and created a star.

 

 

 

It's pretty weird seeing baby faces actually win and one over on the heels. Maybe this is what they meant by major changes "we're going to stop booking the baby faces like idiotic choke artists."

I'm not sure why WWE ever even got into that kind of rut. This is a company that was built on Bruno being the tough babyface who beat everyone who tried him. They killed off the territories on the back of Hogan being the American Superhero who beat everyone in his path for like 6 years straight. They killed off WCW by having Austin winning against the odds while the nWo was busy killing off any baby faces the crowd liked. And they managed to right the ship and get things back on track with Cena being the new top guy after things went in the toilet during the "HHH cuts the balls off of everyone the fans get behind" in 2002-2003.

 

After all that, why the fuck did we get the last 2 years of baby faces being made to look like shit?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, are people actually complaining that Roman didn't get some sort of revenge on Steph and/or got slapped by her?

 

Yes. This is a big problem with Stephanie and the modern group-think of WWE. It's simple for me, in prowrestling a heel should always get what is coming to him/her. Plain and simple. WWE having a character that NEVER has to answer for his/her actions is counter productive. Sure, Stephanie will indirectly answer for her actions (her dad gets taken out later in the night and/or something happens to Hunter), but what happens to Stephanie? WWE is so obsessed with no male on female stuff but the female on male stuff is okay? It just don't come off good on TV as the situation is either:

 

A. Ryback looks like a complete dork because of WWE group-think

 

B. Reigns looks like a complete moron because of WWE group-think

 

Its like a lot of things in WWE, either shit-or-get-off-the-pot! WWE should just get rid of ALL intergender violence and it would resolve the problem. WWE is sending the wrong message (a message a lot of society loves to send out for some reason) that its okay for women to slap the shit out of men and expect no returns on the investment. Again, the best approach is just to get rid of it all. No more intergender violence unless WWE wants to make it equal (which will get some people upset). Stephanie Mcmahon is the most protected heel in the company right now.

 

 

This feels like some weird MRA shit that I'm not going to get into ("women can be abusers tooooooo"), but I will agree that Stephanie should not have been allowed to slap the shit out of the company's top face (pardon the pun) with zero recourse.  One slap, realize what you just did, get scared and get out of the ring quickly is typical heel MO.  But that?  What the fuck was that?  And then they crowed about showing Roman's beat up face on social media.  What was the point of that aside from getting Stephanie over as a badass at the expense of Reigns?  Where is the money in this angle?

 

Stephanie's role is ridiculous.  She's not a heel; because heels eventually get their comeuppance.  She's just feeding her own ego at this point.  She's tougher, smarter and more powerful than all the wrestlers and she has to make sure everybody knows it every single week.  It's tiresome.  Vince showed her how it's done and she should be embarrassed about whatever it is she's supposed to be doing on TV.

 

 

I have said this before.  Ego is a terrible thing.  Vince understands that a good heel eventually gets his comeuppance and the larger the ego the harder the fall.  

 

It is so basic, so carny, so Wrestling 101.  Yet HHH and Steph have forgotten that basic premise.  

 

Because their characters are on TV so much and involved EVERYWHERE they have become overused, out of touch, and tired.

[Craig H]

So, on Sunday night, things looked bad. Roman loses again, looks like a punk, doesn't beat everyone's ass, and then finally does after the match, getting the same reaction he used to get as a heel in the Shield when they were unstoppable.

 

So the Shield broke up after Payback in 2013. It took over two years for them to figure out that no one wants to see this scary ass Samoan talk, they just want to see him wreck shop. Throughout that time, and you can count the number of times on one hand, they would go back to what made people like Roman to begin with. Sunday night, after he lost, they got back to that and it was a cool moment that could have been infinitely better all things considered.

 

That said, kudos to creative for seemingly pivoting and having Roman win. I say seemingly because I still didn't like him getting slapped a bunch and then selling the slaps. When Steph slapped him, I was really hoping that Roman wouldn't even budge, like he was carved out of stone, but Steph was really laying into those slaps. Then Vince nut shots him. Like, again, he looks like a punk, regardless of what has happened in the past with the Rock and Austin. Would current Brock take a nutshot from Vince or sell slaps like that from Steph? No. It didn't occur to me before Bryan's rant, but dammit, book Roman like he's Brock. Like he's an unstoppable killing machine. When you look unbeatable, when you feel unbeatable, when you show you're unbeatable, people eat that up because then you have an aura.

 

I want to end on something positive though, and so again, props to pivoting and putting the strap around Roman's waist. At some point, you just have to commit to the booking and they finally did. PLUS, as a bonus, it happened on Raw, where there's a lot more visibility. I think they actually stumbled into something far more successful than having Roman win on Sunday because this got so many more eyeballs.

 

Now...capitalize on this. Turn it up a notch and have Roman say fewer things and beat more asses. Keep building on what was done in the last 5 minutes of TLC and at the end of Raw. No more getting heat off of Roman. Just commit to making him look awesome and gut out any dips in the ratings. Stick with this run. Don't book him against Kane, like they do with every new face champ. I really want this to work and I like what I'm seeing.

 

The rest of Raw I really can't speak to because I typically spend more time watching the Hulu version since other ways of watching Raw aren't that reliable when you're a cable cutter. If you watch the 90 minute Raw on Hulu, it feels like 75 to 80 minutes of build to the title match. It made for good storytelling and it shows you just how much better this show would be if it were cut back from 3 hours to 2 hours OR if they made better use of those 3 hours. The Hulu Raw was this:

 

- Opening segment setting up Vince's return

- The angle with KO and Ambrose with KO bringing the heat against Ambrose and looking like the violent threat he was in NXT

- Vince returns

- Roman and Vince have their confrontation

- The angle with the New Day

- The 8 man tag garbage match

- The main event

 

There was some other stuff on the Hulu version, like the Divas tag, but the Divas division is so shitty that it was hard to remember much from that match. There was also no Miz and Neville, and probably a bunch of other stuff was missing as well. The point is, the streamlined Hulu version makes an OK episode of Raw good and it makes a good episode of Raw really good where the 90 minutes flies by.

[piranesi]

I don't know why the Stephanie thing is being made so unsolvable. 

She slaps him. 

He smiles. 

She goes to slap him again. 

He catches her arm and smiles real big. 

Laughs. 

Winks. 

says "Now, sweetheart, what's next?  Your husband is peeing in a bedpan so send out daddy?  Or maybe that hunky driver HHH doesn't know you gave a raise to last month?  Tell you what.  I'll wait here while you go backstage and get a grownup.  In the meantime why don't you send out Sheamus.   I could use a warmup match."

 

And there you go.  I know it sounds better in Steve Austin's voice but your guy finally looks like he's past the point of being stoppable and Stephanie is maybe slightly diminished in the process.

[Infinit]

Yeah..Roman totally no sold Steph's slaps. Isn't that enough??

[odessasteps]

Presumably, steph's comeuppance is being saved for Ronda.

[Craig H]

Yeah..Roman totally no sold Steph's slaps. Isn't that enough??

 

You should go back and re-watch. I wouldn't say Roman "no sold" her slaps. He takes the first one, turns back with his smirk, gets slapped again, winces, gets slapped again, winces and rubs his jaw and area by his eye. He's not going to take a bump off of a slap, but he's still selling it.