Raw - 17 August 2015

[Hail Sabin]

I'm all for Dean turning heel if it takes the rebound lariat out of his arsenal.

Lord yes. Ambrose has a lot of stupid fucking offense actually.

But that move... At least when Nigel did it he hit the lariat part so fucking hard I could kinda forget how stupid the setup was.

Well it was called the Jawbreaker Lariat when he broke Rave's jaw.

[JRGoldman]

I think the problem is how much bigger the ring is. When Ambrose does it, every has to stand there like a fool waiting for him to rebound. Indy rings were a couple feet smaller so generally someone was right there to get clobbered when Nigel did it.

[BEN!]

Turning Ambrose or Reigns at this point would be nothing but some Attitude Era Russo-ish swerve shit.  Neither are in the World Title picture so they can't feud over that.  Reigns has been established as a family man so they can't feud over a broad.  The only thing to feud over is some innocuous "face of the company" bullshit.

 

Also, Ambrose already refused to join up with Wyatt.  There was a feud and everything.

 

They should put the Tag Titles on Ambrose/Reigns.  Give the division some legitimacy and give those two something to do until January.

 

The only guy that should turn at SummerSlam is Neville when Stardust mesmermizes him with the cosmic moon rock.  Opens the door for "The Vigilante" Sting to save the day with his Romero Joker matched against Stardust's Gorshin Riddler.

[DJ Hero Morganti]

The only guy that should turn at SummerSlam is Neville when Stardust mesmermizes him with the cosmic moon rock. Opens the door for "The Vigilante" Sting to save the day with his Romero Joker matched against Stardust's Gorshin Riddler.

That would be awesome.

[_MJ_]

Someone mentioned the Luger/Sting friendship dynamic, and I have to say I always like the idea behind a genuine heel/face friendship.  Not the usually "heel takes advantage of a slow-witted face" cliche.  No, a believable friendship where it's clear the heel actually does care about the friendship, and does slightly moral things to keep the relationship intact.  The face still believes the heel is a "good guy" deep down, even though he knows his friend takes shortcuts.

 

It's a hard act to write.  It has to be a genuine relationship between the two, which means the wrestlers have to be very believable in their roles.  At the same time, the face shouldn't be portrayed as a complete idiot or oblivious to the heel's actions in the friendship.  Sting/Luger usually worked because they had a established history so you could understand why Sting still hung out with Luger.  Plus, it was completely in character for Sting to believe that Luger was good, deep down.  It was also in character for Luger to smile in his friend's face while doing devious deeds just out of Sting's view.

 

I think it could be a really interesting storyline if done today.  However, I don't think the WWE writing staff could pull it off with enough nuance though.  The wrestling would be fine; it's always fine or good nowadays.  The writing...not so much.

[The Nature Boy]

Someone mentioned the Luger/Sting friendship dynamic, and I have to say I always like the idea behind a genuine heel/face friendship.  Not the usually "heel takes advantage of a slow-witted face" cliche.  No, a believable friendship where it's clear the heel actually does care about the friendship, and does slightly moral things to keep the relationship intact.  The face still believes the heel is a "good guy" deep, down even though he knows his friend takes shortcuts.

 

It's a hard act to write.  It has to be a genuine relationship between the two, which means the wrestlers have to be very believable in their roles.  At the same time, the face shouldn't be portrayed as a complete idiot or oblivious to the heel's actions in the friendship.  Sting/Luger usually worked because they had a established history so you could understand why Sting still hung out with Luger.  Plus, it was completely in character for Sting to believe that Luger was good, deep down.  It was also in character for Luger to smile in his friend's face while doing devious deeds just out of Sting's view.

 

I think it could be a really interesting storyline if done today.  However, I don't think the WWE writing staff could pull it off with enough nuance though.  The wrestling would be fine; it's always fine or good nowadays.  The writing...not so much.

 

If Ambrose ever did go heel, you could just do a segment where Reigns tells him that they're still friends, Reigns disagrees with what he's doing but they're still friends. 

 

Honestly, Reigns and Ambrose even being friends is an improvement over WWE's usual booking of faces. Since Austin and Rock, it seems that every top babyface is a loner with no friends. 

[piranesi]

Someone mentioned the Luger/Sting friendship dynamic, and I have to say I always like the idea behind a genuine heel/face friendship.  Not the usually "heel takes advantage of a slow-witted face" cliche.  No, a believable friendship where it's clear the heel actually does care about the friendship, and does slightly moral things to keep the relationship intact.  The face still believes the heel is a "good guy" deep, down even though he knows his friend takes shortcuts.

 

It's a hard act to write.  It has to be a genuine relationship between the two, which means the wrestlers have to be very believable in their roles.  At the same time, the face shouldn't be portrayed as a complete idiot or oblivious to the heel's actions in the friendship.  Sting/Luger usually worked because they had a established history so you could understand why Sting still hung out with Luger.  Plus, it was completely in character for Sting to believe that Luger was good, deep down.  It was also in character for Luger to smile in his friend's face while doing devious deeds just out of Sting's view.

 

I think it could be a really interesting storyline if done today.  However, I don't think the WWE writing staff could pull it off with enough nuance though.  The wrestling would be fine; it's always fine or good nowadays.  The writing...not so much.

 

Fans have to be pretty forgiving of the babyface 1) being dumb and 2) accidentally causing problems for other babyfaces through his dumbness.

 

It worked for Sting because he was a likable guy and the fans hadn't yet embraced the cool heel and rejected the good-hearted babyface as a general principal, with maybe the Horsemen being the exception.  He also had other babyfaces around him who had a long history of erratic and/or assholish behavior (Savage, Hogan) so you could hardly blame him for never knowing who to trust or recognizing when someone was a unredeemable.

 

It was chaos and everyone kind of knew it.  Dude had four or five coked-up lunatics around him at a time and he was trying to reason with them all.  It was hard not to feel bad for him.

 

WCW fans were also more used to little stables forming out of the top babyfaces and all their storylines intersecting, rather than the every-man-for-himself booking in current WWE.  I think that's one of the reasons the Shield/Wyatts were so refreshing.

 

But that character almost seems more like Ambrose should be the Sting.  The guy running around trying to keep his buddies together because he believes in some kind of old-fashioned loyalty.  Maybe Rollins could be the Luger.  But it still feels like there aren't enough bodies to keep it going.

 

Dean = Sting

Seth = Luger

Roman = Savage

 

trying to reunite against the Wyatts?  But Seth is really just in it to get the title off Roman?

[_MJ_]

I agree with you on the face having to be a very likable, fan favorite.  The crowd would probably not buy it otherwise.  It's a difficult storyline to pull off and I find that interesting.  You really would have to think about each wrestlers' actions week to week in order justify the friendship continuing, despite each one having different career beliefs.  Plus, if done well, there's a freshness to it.

[Brian Fowler]

I really wish the Sting/Luger 1995 thing had played out and not just been washed away under the nWo tidal wave.

When Luger went full heel with Hart managing him and was still Sting's best friend/tag partner/etc... It was compelling as hell because it was different. It never felt like Lex was being disingenuous with it, just setting him up for the turn (though that's almost certainly where it had to lead.)

On the other hand, I think it was the unspoken motivator in Sting leaning WCW high and dry against the nWo for over a year. All those months of giving Lex the benefit of the doubt when Hart interfered or he attacked Macho or Hulk or what have you, and one nWo set up and Lex is leading the angry mob. Lex not trusting him was the best reason for the whole going into the rafters gimmick.

[Charlie M.]

This sounds bad given Lex's situation but Lex was basically a junkie (for winning/cheating) and Sting kept giving him chance after chance because he loved the guy. Lex had proven he could go long stretches of time being clean and Sting knew it. If he could just get through to Lex, he could save him.

 

And who the heck were guys like Hogan and Savage and the Road Warriors to tell Sting who to be friends with? Since when had any of them proven to be trustworthy?

[odessasteps]

In that case, the only person to seek advice from would be Steamboat.

[_MJ_]

On the other hand, I think it was the unspoken motivator in Sting leaning WCW high and dry against the nWo for over a year. All those months of giving Lex the benefit of the doubt when Hart interfered or he attacked Macho or Hulk or what have you, and one nWo set up and Lex is leading the angry mob. Lex not trusting him was the best reason for the whole going into the rafters gimmick.

 

I never really thought about it altogether, but it's a good, yet simple storyline. Sting still believes Luger is genuine, even after Luger breaks bad, and still accepts him. When Luger gets a similar opportunity to validate Sting's innocent, he can't make the same leap of faith.  Knowing the characters, it makes sense too. Nice.

 

Tip my hat to WCW on that one.  Of course they didn't plan it all out and they didn't need to in this case.  They built off the history of the friendship and their characteristics.  If only they found a better Sting impersonator.

[Burgundy LaRue]

Someone mentioned the Luger/Sting friendship dynamic, and I have to say I always like the idea behind a genuine heel/face friendship.  Not the usually "heel takes advantage of a slow-witted face" cliche.  No, a believable friendship where it's clear the heel actually does care about the friendship, and does slightly moral things to keep the relationship intact.  The face still believes the heel is a "good guy" deep down, even though he knows his friend takes shortcuts.

 

It's a hard act to write.  It has to be a genuine relationship between the two, which means the wrestlers have to be very believable in their roles.  At the same time, the face shouldn't be portrayed as a complete idiot or oblivious to the heel's actions in the friendship.  Sting/Luger usually worked because they had a established history so you could understand why Sting still hung out with Luger.  Plus, it was completely in character for Sting to believe that Luger was good, deep down.  It was also in character for Luger to smile in his friend's face while doing devious deeds just out of Sting's view.

 

I think it could be a really interesting storyline if done today.  However, I don't think the WWE writing staff could pull it off with enough nuance though.  The wrestling would be fine; it's always fine or good nowadays.  The writing...not so much.

 

The writers would have the advantage of Reigns and Ambrose apparently being real-life good friends.  To that end, I could see Reigns believably trying to bring Ambrose back to the good side, with Ambrose appreciating the effort but doing the 'this is the real me' routine.  I could totally buy it.  It's already happened, with Reigns throwing himself at The Authority for a sure beatdown to buy time while Ambrose stole a police wagon to make it back to Raw for his WHC contract signing.  In that instance, Ambrose was wrongly accused.  But the basic dynamics--good friend tries to help out troubled friend--are intact.  Reigns also sniffed Ambrose' cup in New Orleans--indication that he knows Ambrose gets into wacky stuff--and loves the guy just the same.

 

It'd be interesting if Rollins and Ambrose somehow bury the hatchet, only for Reigns being finally finished with Ambrose's insanity and Rollins' smugness and just drift out into the proverbial sea.  But agreed, not sure if the writing would hold it together.  Ambrose/Reigns can hold their end, though.

[Victator]

I always liked whenever Lex turned heel, him and Sting tried to stay friends til circumstances tore them apart.

[Victator]

This sounds bad given Lex's situation but Lex was basically a junkie (for winning/cheating) and Sting kept giving him chance after chance because he loved the guy. Lex had proven he could go long stretches of time being clean and Sting knew it. If he could just get through to Lex, he could save him.

 

And who the heck were guys like Hogan and Savage and the Road Warriors to tell Sting who to be friends with? Since when had any of them proven to be trustworthy?

The Roadies tried to break Sting's neck in 88. They were the reason him and 

Lex became friends.

Hogan had jusr gone thru that evil period fighting the Dungeon and mess with Sting's head. 

Savage had been fairly decent to Sting.

[Johnny Sorrow]

If Ambrose turns on Reigns, it'd be a perfect step in the "Roman Reigns Redemption Tour" that they're doing where they're doing a ton of old school type angles but rushed. And IF Ambrose decides to hang with Bray, it'll be more like Cactus with Raven in ECW. Ambrose won't be a lackey, he'll be an equal. But if he does turn so Reigns can have a "Brother vs Brother" program on this tour I'm thinking it'll be without joining Bray.

[CastleVania Rey]

I'm definitely for Dean Ambrose going heel... when the time is right. He should be the #1 heel in the company. Anything less and the timing is wrong and he'd be better off staying face. He should have a run like year 2000 Triple H. A dominant and horrible bastard who likes to bludgeon people and will do anything to win. He doesn't always need to cheat but he does it anyway because he's evil and doesn't care. He's the blind leading the blind and he never serves anyone else. Having him be a minion to Bray would be utterly terrible in every way. It's just a completely awful idea from its very conception. It kills Ambrose's character.

 

"Nobody pulls me by puppet strings. That's not the way I like it."

[Pete]

 

Too late?

[piranesi]

This sounds bad given Lex's situation but Lex was basically a junkie (for winning/cheating) and Sting kept giving him chance after chance because he loved the guy. Lex had proven he could go long stretches of time being clean and Sting knew it. If he could just get through to Lex, he could save him.

 

And who the heck were guys like Hogan and Savage and the Road Warriors to tell Sting who to be friends with? Since when had any of them proven to be trustworthy?

 

I'm watching the maybe 2nd Nitro in 1996 right now and it's hilarious that while he's interviewing Sting and Luger together, even Gene Okerlund is basically saying directly to Sting "You know this guy is about to fuck you over, right?"

[Hooker]

So I can't be the only one that finds Triple H and Stephanie coming out exclusively to run down the PPV card and basically carny the shit out of a good 20 minute block of RAW with zero attempt to advance a storyline or do anything remotely interesting at all, right?  I know RAW is basically a glorified series of ads for the PPVs to begin with, but this is way beyond bad taste.  Add in fifty slow-motion recaps where they dim out everything but Rollin's knee and Cena's face while Cole screams at you to "WATCH CLOSELY TO SETH'S RIGHT KNEE" when it is literally the only thing happening on screen and it becomes very obvious that the target RAW viewer only watches the show once every month and is a drooling retard.  Porn is more sophisticated.