SEPT WRESTLING DISCUSSION THREAD

[cool arrow]

Sure there was more than one Star War.  At the very least we know of the Clone War (and come to think of it, wasn't there more than one of those?) and the Rebel Alliance vs. the Empire.  And then there's the Yuuzhan Vong, but I guess that didn't happen now.

 

But I digress.

[The Nature Boy]

 

 

You know, the Raven storyline in WCW was interesting continuity when you consider that in ECW, it was established that Raven had attended summer camp. I always imagine Raven's parents sending him to summer camp, hoping it would reform him but failing miserably.

I don't know why but reading that lead to images in my head of Raven's parents sending Blue Meanie to fat camp and Raven coming back and the parents looking at each other and saying 'baby steps'

 

 

I really hate Raven and think he is ridiculously overrated, but the one thing I loved about him was his backstory. ECW never pretended that Raven was some new guy... he was Scotty Flamingo or Johnny Polo (rich, arrogant, preppy) who was going through some crazy internal crisis. He was a poser but he was charismatic enough that he could get other misfits and delinquents to worship him and do his dirty work. I really wish it would have at some point gotten to where we found out Raven, instead of sleeping in a van covered in Seattle based grunge rock bank posters, would secretly slip out at night and get a room at the Hyatt while letting him cronies stay behind in the van. Then he would sneak in early the next morning (at like, 11AM) before the other misfits woke up and be all "Yeah man, I was here the whole time."

 

 

I'm trying to recall the Dreamer/Raven backstory here but wasn't it established that Beulah had been the fat girl at camp who was rejected by Tommy Dreamer? Didn't she make friends with Raven while there too? I'm reasonably certain that Raven went to camp with Dreamer but he may not have.

 

God I miss when wrestlers had backstories and we weren't just told "HEY! Here's Big E and he's wrestling tonight!" 

[Super Ape]

God bless Brian Hildebrand.

That man was a straight-up pitbull. Fuck cancer.

[Spritenaut 32]

I'm trying to recall the Dreamer/Raven backstory here but wasn't it established that Beulah had been the fat girl at camp who was rejected by Tommy Dreamer? Didn't she make friends with Raven while there too? I'm reasonably certain that Raven went to camp with Dreamer but he may not have.

 

God I miss when wrestlers had backstories and we weren't just told "HEY! Here's Big E and he's wrestling tonight!"

 

Nope, you got it right.  The backstory was that the three of them went to camp together, and Tommy rejected her (presumably b/c she was fat).  Raven befriended her, and, years later, brought her to ECW (I think it was Stevie Richards that recruited her to ECW, actually).

 

That right there is probably more backstory than the entire WWE roster has.

[The Nature Boy]

 

I'm trying to recall the Dreamer/Raven backstory here but wasn't it established that Beulah had been the fat girl at camp who was rejected by Tommy Dreamer? Didn't she make friends with Raven while there too? I'm reasonably certain that Raven went to camp with Dreamer but he may not have.

 

God I miss when wrestlers had backstories and we weren't just told "HEY! Here's Big E and he's wrestling tonight!"

 

Nope, you got it right.  The backstory was that the three of them went to camp together, and Tommy rejected her (presumably b/c she was fat).  Raven befriended her, and, years later, brought her to ECW (I think it was Stevie Richards that recruited her to ECW, actually).

 

That right there is probably more backstory than the entire WWE roster has.

 

 

The Raven character probably has more backstory than any other character in the history of the sport. It's too bad WWF/WWE offered nothing new in terms of shaping the character.

 

I always filled in the gaps and figured that Raven was raised rich and went onto become Scotty Flamingo/Johnny Polo while his parents were still footing the bill for him. He saved his money, became self-sufficient, left the WWF and was finally able to be "Raven" and not have to put up a front to make his parents happy. He went back to WCW when Paul's checks bounced, saved his money and went back to ECW where he was truly happy. 

[JohnnyJ]

God I miss when wrestlers had backstories and we weren't just told "HEY! Here's Big E and he's wrestling tonight!"

Hell, I miss when wrestlers had last names.

[sydneybrown]

That right there is probably more backstory than the entire WWE roster has.

 

 

Oh, give me a break, Kane's back story could take up an entire novel.  And has.

[Spritenaut 32]

 

That right there is probably more backstory than the entire WWE roster has.

 

 

Oh, give me a break, Kane's back story could take up an entire novel.  And has.

 

 

Good point.  I should have said that's more backstory than most of the roster has.  They seem to have given up on creating backstories for the characters.  Cesaro, for example.  Did they ever reference his rugby background after the first appearance or two?

[The Nature Boy]

 

 

That right there is probably more backstory than the entire WWE roster has.

 

 

Oh, give me a break, Kane's back story could take up an entire novel.  And has.

 

 

Good point.  I should have said that's more backstory than most of the roster has.  They seem to have given up on creating backstories for the characters.  Cesaro, for example.  Did they

ever reference his rugby background after the first appearance or two?

 

 

WWE seems to mention pieces of backstories but never fleshes things out. Like we know that Wade Barrett came up fighting in bars and that Kofi Kingston is a Jamaican culture enthusiast but it never goes much deeper than that. Knowing a character's backstory provides fodder for future storylines. 

[RandomAct]

Here's a topic.  I was watching Halloween Havoc 95 today, after watching some Nitros, and I was thinking about how fucking amazing Sting was at taking heat.  I posed a question on Twitter, does anyone today have that kind of talent for taking heat, and I could think of no one.  I think being good at taking heat is becoming a lost artform.  Not only taking the offense and selling, but having the people just DYING for you to make that comeback.  Sting was a master at this.  I don't know why it seems like no one is good at it anymore, unless today's crop don't want to look "weak", or if the current landscape is so far away from actually working the crowd, that no one knows how.

[Cobra Commander]

how would Sting compare to Ricky Morton here? or is taking heat overall far different than taking heat from teen girls?

[Dre013]

I've rewatched the start of the Raven ECW run recently, it was excellent. Richards wearing the different personas (Scotty Flamingo, Johnny Polo), telling Styles that his friend Scotty the Body was coming, then he arrives dressed like a jacked up Eddie Vedder, assembling a crew of characters and having instant issue with Dreamer.

And yes, Richards brought Beulah there. Raven was pissed as he thought she was still fat with acne...then the penthouse Beulah walks out. Btw, she had awful hair, blown dry to the max (as was the style in 95/96 Philadelphia). Really excellent and Heyman's best work.

[RandomAct]

how would Sting compare to Ricky Morton here? or is taking heat overall far different than taking heat from teen girls?

No comment lol I'm a little too close to the fire on that one.

[Petey]

 

God I miss when wrestlers had backstories and we weren't just told "HEY! Here's Big E and he's wrestling tonight!"

Hell, I miss when wrestlers had last names.

 

And first names.

[cool arrow]

Or at least non-NXT-generated names.

[Dre013]

Per the dirtsheetz, Lesnar has worked out a deal where he will appear at more shows for WWE but will get an appearance fee for each additional date. I love the fact he has them by the shorties. Good for him.

[Craig H]

Now crush Cena again!

[ivpvideos]

Here's a topic. I was watching Halloween Havoc 95 today, after watching some Nitros, and I was thinking about how fucking amazing Sting was at taking heat. I posed a question on Twitter, does anyone today have that kind of talent for taking heat, and I could think of no one. I think being good at taking heat is becoming a lost artform. Not only taking the offense and selling, but having the people just DYING for you to make that comeback. Sting was a master at this. I don't know why it seems like no one is good at it anymore, unless today's crop don't want to look "weak", or if the current landscape is so far away from actually working the crowd, that no one knows how.

Crowds these days are more interested in getting themselves over than they are getting behind a babyface to triumph over the heels.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

I'm trying to recall the Dreamer/Raven backstory here but wasn't it established that Beulah had been the fat girl at camp who was rejected by Tommy Dreamer? Didn't she make friends with Raven while there too? I'm reasonably certain that Raven went to camp with Dreamer but he may not have.

God I miss when wrestlers had backstories and we weren't just told "HEY! Here's Big E and he's wrestling tonight!"

Nope, you got it right. The backstory was that the three of them went to camp together, and Tommy rejected her (presumably b/c she was fat). Raven befriended her, and, years later, brought her to ECW (I think it was Stevie Richards that recruited her to ECW, actually).

That right there is probably more backstory than the entire WWE roster has.

The Raven character probably has more backstory than any other character in the history of the sport. It's too bad WWF/WWE offered nothing new in terms of shaping the character.

I always filled in the gaps and figured that Raven was raised rich and went onto become Scotty Flamingo/Johnny Polo while his parents were still footing the bill for him. He saved his money, became self-sufficient, left the WWF and was finally able to be "Raven" and not have to put up a front to make his parents happy. He went back to WCW when Paul's checks bounced, saved his money and went back to ECW where he was truly happy.

See, Scotty was emotionally stable while the parents' insurance was paying for a psychiatrist, therapist, anti-depressants, etc. Over time, Scotty stopped the therapist and psychiatrist appointments. To avoid the withdrawl from kicking antidepressants cold turkey, Scotty turned to heroin. Scotty wanted to stop using heroin, but many addicts will keep using to avoid the pain that comes from dope sickness. That's how he ended up in rehab.

[The Nature Boy]

 

 

 

I'm trying to recall the Dreamer/Raven backstory here but wasn't it established that Beulah had been the fat girl at camp who was rejected by Tommy Dreamer? Didn't she make friends with Raven while there too? I'm reasonably certain that Raven went to camp with Dreamer but he may not have.

God I miss when wrestlers had backstories and we weren't just told "HEY! Here's Big E and he's wrestling tonight!"

Nope, you got it right. The backstory was that the three of them went to camp together, and Tommy rejected her (presumably b/c she was fat). Raven befriended her, and, years later, brought her to ECW (I think it was Stevie Richards that recruited her to ECW, actually).

That right there is probably more backstory than the entire WWE roster has.

The Raven character probably has more backstory than any other character in the history of the sport. It's too bad WWF/WWE offered nothing new in terms of shaping the character.

I always filled in the gaps and figured that Raven was raised rich and went onto become Scotty Flamingo/Johnny Polo while his parents were still footing the bill for him. He saved his money, became self-sufficient, left the WWF and was finally able to be "Raven" and not have to put up a front to make his parents happy. He went back to WCW when Paul's checks bounced, saved his money and went back to ECW where he was truly happy.

See, Scotty was emotionally stable while the parents' insurance was paying for a psychiatrist, therapist, anti-depressants, etc. Over time, Scotty stopped the therapist and psychiatrist appointments. To avoid the withdrawl from kicking antidepressants cold turkey, Scotty turned to heroin. Scotty wanted to stop using heroin, but many addicts will keep using to avoid the pain that comes from dope sickness. That's how he ended up in rehab.

 

 

I really want an autobiography (or even a biography) of the Raven character. It really is one of the most fascinating characters in wrestling history. 

 

I also want a reason why no one was like "HI JOHNNY POLO!" when he came back to the WWF in 1999. Like Jim Ross even commentated with the guy but pretended to not even recognize him. 

[jaedmc]

Here's a topic.  I was watching Halloween Havoc 95 today, after watching some Nitros, and I was thinking about how fucking amazing Sting was at taking heat.  I posed a question on Twitter, does anyone today have that kind of talent for taking heat, and I could think of no one.  I think being good at taking heat is becoming a lost artform.  Not only taking the offense and selling, but having the people just DYING for you to make that comeback.  Sting was a master at this.  I don't know why it seems like no one is good at it anymore, unless today's crop don't want to look "weak", or if the current landscape is so far away from actually working the crowd, that no one knows how.

I haven't watched a lot of his Zayn stuff, but Generico was one of the few guys on the indies who got this. He was all about working as the underdog, eating a lot of offense, and begging people to give him the strength to brainbuster a motherfucker on a turnbuckle. He never really looked super-human, he just looked like a guy who lasted and found one opening to maybe get the win.

[Matt D]

Dustin is the one guy on the roster who consistently gets an otherwise apathetic crowd to chant for him when he's in a chinlock.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Christian isn't bad at it.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Here's a topic. I was watching Halloween Havoc 95 today, after watching some Nitros, and I was thinking about how fucking amazing Sting was at taking heat. I posed a question on Twitter, does anyone today have that kind of talent for taking heat, and I could think of no one. I think being good at taking heat is becoming a lost artform. Not only taking the offense and selling, but having the people just DYING for you to make that comeback. Sting was a master at this. I don't know why it seems like no one is good at it anymore, unless today's crop don't want to look "weak", or if the current landscape is so far away from actually working the crowd, that no one knows how.

Crowds these days are more interested in getting themselves over than they are getting behind a babyface to triumph over the heels.

Well, besides the Daniel Bryan run to Mania.

[Tromatagon]

I don't know if you guys have heard about this Dean Ambrose guy but he's the best in the company at it and has been since the Shield turned face. He was the face in peril in all their tag matches despite being resident scumbag when they were heels, it was fucking cool.