MARCH WRESTLING DISCUSSION THREAD

[T.Rex-n-effeckx]

Traditionally heels couldn't work merch tables.
Guys who understand that wrestling is about making money from merch sales like to work face.

[odessasteps]

Traditionally heels couldn't work merch tables.

Guys who understand that wrestling is about making money from merch sales like to work face.

I believe sometimes babyfaces would give a cut of their merch sales to the heels with whom they were feuding.

[T.Rex-n-effeckx]

Don't buy that. I know Valiant is often credited with brilliance for figuring out how to sell merch as heel (45 records that fans would break in front of him and dip in his blood, etc). But faces giving heels a cut, suggests way to much honor among thieves for me to accept.

[ebbie]

I remember watching a Misawa video where he said he hated working face because he got no pussy. All the AJPW heels were crushing pussy at the time. I think that's what he said. It was a Japanese interview. I don't speak the language so I am taking a educated guess.

What a great reason not to turn face.

[sydneybrown]

 

A question that almost always comes up whenever there's a shoot interview is "did you prefer working face or heel" and invariably the wrestler always says they prefer to work heel b/c they're in control. Have any of you ever seen an instance where a guy said they prefer to work face? Maybe Steamboat but does he really count b/c he never worked heel.

I don't watch shoot interviews, but maybe there were some guys who preferred to work face because they got more pussy during their face runs than their heel runs. Or did the rats back then not care?

 

 

Colt Cabana said he preferred to work face on Marc Maron's WTF podcast.  Pretty sure it wasn't for the pussy though.

[Captain Kronos]

Been surfing youtube this evening, watching AJ post-Divas-title-win segments.

 

This girl is freaking entertaining.

[bobholly138]

 

 

Now, if you're talking about those creepy companies in Florida that, at least in 2008, booked the ladies for these almost softcore matches in empty rooms --and then sold the matches for around $10 a piece, then yes. That's a little bit scary. And aside from the fact that I know it supported some of my favorite ladies financially, I am ashamed to have bought a few of those. Thankfully, I have long since forgotten the name of the company. And when megaupload went down and took several hundred gigs of files I had archived, away went all my chick rasslin as well as all the other wrestling vids I had spent several years accumulating.

There was a group in MS/TN that did the same thing. I think they folded last year. But lots of the MS women's indy talent worked for them. Was told them made more doing 5 matches for the softcore group than they made all year working the MS indies. Which doesn't surprise me. Outside of 1 group,all the MS indies pay 5 or 10 bucks to the wrestlers. The former NWA fed in this state is infamous for not paying at all. But hard to pay the talent when they are drawing 20 fans tops to each show. 

[Captain Kronos]

 

 

 

Now, if you're talking about those creepy companies in Florida that, at least in 2008, booked the ladies for these almost softcore matches in empty rooms --and then sold the matches for around $10 a piece, then yes. That's a little bit scary. And aside from the fact that I know it supported some of my favorite ladies financially, I am ashamed to have bought a few of those. Thankfully, I have long since forgotten the name of the company. And when megaupload went down and took several hundred gigs of files I had archived, away went all my chick rasslin as well as all the other wrestling vids I had spent several years accumulating.

There was a group in MS/TN that did the same thing. I think they folded last year. But lots of the MS women's indy talent worked for them. Was told them made more doing 5 matches for the softcore group than they made all year working the MS indies. Which doesn't surprise me. Outside of 1 group,all the MS indies pay 5 or 10 bucks to the wrestlers. The former NWA fed in this state is infamous for not paying at all. But hard to pay the talent when they are drawing 20 fans tops to each show. 

 

 

 

Yeah, I can't really fault the girls for taking those bookings. There's little enough money in the indie scene as it is.

 

But looking back on buying and owning the "matches" -- well, that's a different story. LOL

[mco543]

Isn't there a story about the early TNA guys like AJ, Daniels, and David Young doing those videos also?

[cool arrow]

I have no ideas what you guys are talking about, and I suspect I'm probably better off.

[bobholly138]

I have a feeling Axel would be tagging with Heindenriech this weekend in Picayune, Mississippi if his last name wasn't Hennig.

Would Axel no show the show like Heindenriech did? Still need to find out why John no showed.

[caley]

Does anyone remember when Heidenreich said he was going into hurricane-ravaged New Orleans to find his dad?  I seem to remember him saying something about taking his guns, but I now think I made that part up to make it sound more like 'Taken: Starring Heidenreich'.  Whatever became of that, did he find his dad?

[bobholly138]

Does anyone remember when Heidenreich said he was going into hurricane-ravaged New Orleans to find his dad?  I seem to remember him saying something about taking his guns, but I now think I made that part up to make it sound more like 'Taken: Starring Heidenreich'.  Whatever became of that, did he find his dad?

I think so. If he had shown up at the Powerslam Show in Picayune I was going to ask him about the time he "raped" Cole.

[cool arrow]

 

It's a damn shame the Snitsenreich team never really got off the ground.

[odessasteps]

Don't buy that. I know Valiant is often credited with brilliance for figuring out how to sell merch as heel (45 records that fans would break in front of him and dip in his blood, etc). But faces giving heels a cut, suggests way to much honor among thieves for me to accept.

When i heard the story, it was about the RnR either with the MX in Mid-South or the Bodies in SMW.

[Domino_Not_Deuce]

Don't buy that. I know Valiant is often credited with brilliance for figuring out how to sell merch as heel (45 records that fans would break in front of him and dip in his blood, etc). But faces giving heels a cut, suggests way to much honor among thieves for me to accept.

 

Is there a heel in the professional wrestling today that can get this kind of reaction? In fact,what does one need to do to work the smarter than thou indy crowd and stir up some real distaste?

[Josh Mann]

Make them think they're booing ironically when they're actually not.

[Buy Me a Burrito]

When I boo, it's really postmodern.

[caley]

 

Don't buy that. I know Valiant is often credited with brilliance for figuring out how to sell merch as heel (45 records that fans would break in front of him and dip in his blood, etc). But faces giving heels a cut, suggests way to much honor among thieves for me to accept.

 

Is there a heel in the professional wrestling today that can get this kind of reaction? In fact,what does one need to do to work the smarter than thou indy crowd and stir up some real distaste?

 

You can make a case for Bo Dallas.  After they turned him in NXT, you still had fans chanting "No More Bo!" and turning their backs on him (the smarkiest of smarky reactions) which just played even further into his deluded heel who thinks he's a face act.

[odessasteps]

Don't buy that. I know Valiant is often credited with brilliance for figuring out how to sell merch as heel (45 records that fans would break in front of him and dip in his blood, etc). But faces giving heels a cut, suggests way to much honor among thieves for me to accept.

 

Is there a heel in the professional wrestling today that can get this kind of reaction? In fact,what does one need to do to work the smarter than thou indy crowd and stir up some real distaste?

I think Eddie Kingston could. He can be very unlikable , in a thuggish bully way, as opposed to being a cool or funny heel.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Just got back from a pretty fun WWE house show.

Cena-Orton in a cage headlined, and it was a pretty solid match-- much longer than I had anticipated (in a good way). It was a very kid-heavy crowd (I'm guessing since it's a Friday and not a school night) and they were going nuts for Cena. They chanted for him during a bunch of other matches too. Shield vs. Wyatts was without a doubt the match of the night, made even more awesome by the Shield coming down the aisle we were sitting on. There was a lot of really, really cool shit in that match. People were shitting their pants for Reigns offense when he got the hot tag. We caught traffic on the way down, so we missed the Sheamus-ADR opener, and caught the finish to Cesaro-Darren Young after grabbing beers. Barrett and Kofi had a pretty cool match. Kofi always gets a good reaction here, and Barrett did a pretty good heel promo calling the city a hellhole-- which people actually kind of liked because, well, it is. There was an Aksana-Alicia Fox match but I spent most of that grabbing beer. There was also an Usos-Ryback/Axel-Rhodes Bros. match, which was decent, but definitely not enough Goldust for my liking. Ryback got some Goldberg and even a Gillberg chant. Mark Henry-Sandow was pretty cool for what it was, with Henry hitting Sandow's pose a bunch of times for a great reaction. Ziggler was advertised but wasn't there.

 

EDIT: Forgot the most important part! Saw Bob Backlund in the men's room washing his hands. He told me to enjoy the show, and I told him to run for president again.

[JRGoldman]

I feel like even in the early 80s, you had adult males that cheered for heels. The Horseman are held up as this paragon of heel heat but they always had some guys cheering for them. The difference now is that the promotions that are running venues most conducive to audible reactions are Indy Feds that are almost exclusively filled with adult males who are always going to cheer for whomever. If you could get an Indy that catered to women and children, I think you could get some good reactions and heel heat again. I don't really think Chikara counts because not much of it is played to get a real emotion investment, it's played to construct a narrative. I just don't think children crying over a bloody Green Ant is what they are going for most of the time.

All that being said, I think smart phones and social media have basically put the nail in the coffin for really vocal and reactionary crowds. I think tweeting about a match or seeing what others are saying in real time hurt all but the absolute best that wrestling has to offer.

[The Nature Boy]

I feel like even in the early 80s, you had adult males that cheered for heels. The Horseman are held up as this paragon of heel heat but they always had some guys cheering for them. The difference now is that the promotions that are running venues most conducive to audible reactions are Indy Feds that are almost exclusively filled with adult males who are always going to cheer for whomever. If you could get an Indy that catered to women and children, I think you could get some good reactions and heel heat again. I don't really think Chikara counts because not much of it is played to get a real emotion investment, it's played to construct a narrative. I just don't think children crying over a bloody Green Ant is what they are going for most of the time.

All that being said, I think smart phones and social media have basically put the nail in the coffin for really vocal and reactionary crowds. I think tweeting about a match or seeing what others are saying in real time hurt all but the absolute best that wrestling has to offer.

 

The problem more often than not is that heels are often people that adult males WANT to be. if you were an adult male in the 1980s, you were more likely to want to be a Horseman than Dusty Rhodes. After all, the Horsemen had it all: money, women, nice cars and nice suits. I can't imagine that ANY male in the 18-30 demographic would look at the Horsemen and not to some degree WANT to be them. The WWF seemed to GET this in the late 90s-early 00s. Austin and Rock were people that adult males would want to emulate. Vince McMahon was the heel that you COULD hate, he was the boss. After Cena became popular, WWE seemed to forget how to book faces and heels.

[Brian Fowler]

ESPN on demand has some various awa matches up.

[CanadianChris]

Isn't there a story about the early TNA guys like AJ, Daniels, and David Young doing those videos also?

Yes.

On the SHIMMER after party, I am assuming the creep is either "6th grade dance with scared guys afraid to approach girls", or "I like walks on the beach too! Can I buy the socks you wore tonight?"