AEW TV - 10/8 - 10/15/2024 - emI Can Dream About You

[twiztor]

40 minutes ago, AxB said:

Also, Trent? and Will Hobbs are members of the Don Callis family. But they've not been around due to injuries and stuff.

i 100% forgot Trent was ever involved here. i thought Rush was more of an alliance than a client. Hobbs is missed.

@Excellence, i think what they were going for is that Ospreay wants zero to do with Callis. no interactions, no "my buddy's in your group so i'll still help him out in a pinch", no "we can round out a 12 man tag together", NOTHING. but it did come off very ambiguous, and i agree that some small verbiage changes would have presented that more clearly.

[Technico Support]

@just drew “like Tampa but with more traffic and less qanon” is hilarious 

[SovietShooter]

I'm not going to pretend to have any kind of actual clue how AEW creative actually works... We know the buck stops with TK, but that folks like Dutt, Buck, Mox, Danielson, and other have input.  Will Washington is supposed to be a "show runner" of sorts, keeping track of continuity - which clearly isn't happening. TK is obviously stretched think with all his jobs and responsibilities.

I think the biggest issues with AEW creatively is that right now the company is lacking an identity. For the first few years they were the alternative where you could see wrestling matches that were good simply for the purpose of having good matches. I think between Cody leaving, Omega being out injured so much, and the Bucks getting Punk'd, the heart and soul of AEW is gone.  They need to have a come-to-jesus intervention, where the decision makers all figure out what AEW is going to be going forward, and then stick with that plan.

If they want to be a promotion focused on having big matches, dream matches, and focused on an in-ring product, then go all the way with it; strip out as much of the "sports entertainment" aspects and start treating things like accordingly.

I think they're too busy trying to keep up with the Joneses right now, and need to focus on their own product.

[Matt D]

Mox gets one shot to put a stamp on things. We’ll see how it goes. 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

1 hour ago, SovietShooter said:

I think the biggest issues with AEW creatively is that right now the company is lacking an identity. For the first few years they were the alternative where you could see wrestling matches that were good simply for the purpose of having good matches. I think between Cody leaving, Omega being out injured so much, and the Bucks getting Punk'd, the heart and soul of AEW is gone.  They need to have a come-to-jesus intervention, where the decision makers all figure out what AEW is going to be going forward, and then stick with that plan.

Hard agree. It was launched off the back of All In. And that was basically promoted as hey wrestling kinda fucking sucks with this monopoly, lets do a self made cool thing to give fans an option. The driving and thriving heartbeat of that was Bucks, Cody, & Omega. They had so much fan good will & love.

Fast forward to now, The Bucks are kind of value-less. Blame it on the Punk thing, blame it on meandering creative, blame it on them cashing in and not having a lot of motivation anymore. For whatever reason they just don't have that good will & love anymore. Like this current run isn't an homage to their Bullet Club run where they were shitheads but did it so welll people loved them. Now they're just shit heads people are apathetic towards. Omega being hurt sucks. He's one of their cornerstones. He didn't lose as much luster as The Bucks with the Punk thing, but he too isn't as over or universally loved like he was in the beginning.

Then you have Cody. Exiled from AEW due to the fans kind of turning on him. Which could not have worked out better for him because he was able to dive right back in with WWE and get a little bit of of a rub off of AEW fans exiling him. Those 'WWE is the only real pro wrestling' fans embraced the shit out of that as a badge of honor to like Cody. 'See AEW sucks and their fans cant even see this super mega star standing right in front of them'.

In truth AEW's real identity is whatever TK is vibing with on a given day. Sometimes that's LED aprons to look more like WWE. Sometimes that's hey lucha trios matches are fucking cool lets do a bunch of those. Sometimes it's lets do some territory shit WWE thiks is too hokey. AEW is't ever going to have a singular vision because TK likes too many things and wants to serve too many masters. Are they ECW are they classic ROH are they 2010s New japan are they GCW are they new age WCCW are they peak Nitro. They're all of it, but they're also none of it.

Long story short, brand split. Dynamite is your sports entertainment. Collision is your gritty territory thing. ROH is your workrate / sports presentation thing. At least then that scatterbrained identity can be harnessed with some purpose.

[SovietShooter]

8 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

They're all of it, but they're also none of it.

This is perfect. When you try to do everything, you end up not doing anything well. 

 

10 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Long story short, brand split. Dynamite is your sports entertainment. Collision is your gritty territory thing. ROH is your workrate / sports presentation thing.

I curse the WWE for introducing the concept of a "brand split" to the wrestling world.

[Go2Sleep]

AEW is having problems building "the guy" right now. Babyface MJF getting hurt was bad luck, but he shouldn't have turned back heel. I know some people here dug the Joe run, but that was the epitome of a placeholder champ and it caused them to miss Swerve by a beat. Swerve ended up having a solid run, but an earlier win could've let them move to Ospreay sooner. Speaking of, Ospreay is extremely obviously "that guy" but they have him floundering in the midcard, while Danielson and Mox (who are basically old guard guys at this point) are fighting at the top.

Ospreay, Hangman, MJF, and Swerve are the real 4 pillars and should be the ones at the top of the card right now. Mox and Danielson could do the exact same angle over a secondary belt with the idea to cycle Mox into the upper echelon for a bit, along Okada/Garcia/Takeshita/Jay getting turns at some point. AEW used to be good striking while the iron was hot, but they've been a step slow since all the Punk drama.

[Dolfan in NYC]

 

[Sex Machine Gun]

Whew, so I guess they're still on good terms if they're running with the split like that on social media at least. Who knew "uppies" could destroy such a strong manager-client alliance?

[Zimbra]

AEW's inability to find a consistent role for Stoke is one of their most baffling failures.

[HarryArchieGus]

On 10/10/2024 at 8:57 PM, SovietShooter said:

I'm not going to pretend to have any kind of actual clue how AEW creative actually works... We know the buck stops with TK, but that folks like Dutt, Buck, Mox, Danielson, and other have input.  Will Washington is supposed to be a "show runner" of sorts, keeping track of continuity - which clearly isn't happening. TK is obviously stretched think with all his jobs and responsibilities.

I think the biggest issues with AEW creatively is that right now the company is lacking an identity. For the first few years they were the alternative where you could see wrestling matches that were good simply for the purpose of having good matches. I think between Cody leaving, Omega being out injured so much, and the Bucks getting Punk'd, the heart and soul of AEW is gone.  They need to have a come-to-jesus intervention, where the decision makers all figure out what AEW is going to be going forward, and then stick with that plan.

If they want to be a promotion focused on having big matches, dream matches, and focused on an in-ring product, then go all the way with it; strip out as much of the "sports entertainment" aspects and start treating things like accordingly.

I think they're too busy trying to keep up with the Joneses right now, and need to focus on their own product.

The Wednesday Dynamite show is pretty consistently the best Wrestling TV show each week. It's certainly not perfect, but it's a 52 week schedule. There needs to be some wiggle room for highs and lows. The lows for me - I hate the Stat babyface turn, too many belts (see all ROH belts), I hate 5 hour plus PPVs and the inevitably tired crowds, I don't like the booking balance between sudden challengers and eliminator matches, I hate the rash of 3 and 4 ways, and I'm keeping a close eye on the underperforming Tag Division. I'm also loving a fair amount of good to excepetional pro wrestling matches and promos every week - thanks to this company. There is an issue to me, but it's not really any booking flounders. It's their (comparatively) clear need to boost the production. Their contemporaries on Mondays/Fridays are absolutely murdering them with their 'state of the art' Look and Feel. There's is an event (even when it's often enough not). I'm patient and completely accept what AEW TV looks and feels like, but it would markedly benefit them to put some serious resources here. They also need to better keep the most important stars' stories/profiles central to each TV show. It's gotten better, but Okada for example, should be on ever show. Not knowing if specific stars are going to be on the show is a big part of the attendance issue. On the otherside of the aisle, you pretty well know who's on the show Mondays and Fridays. All the top ppl need to be in the arena more consistently, and at the very least with a taped promo or brief package (when not injured/on hiatus) ON the A show. Further, the cycling in and out of talent needs to be far more cohesive and understandable. They also need to stop taping ROH and C show matches after the peak of the Wednesday shows. Rampage and ROH HonorClub damage the perception of what a night out to see AEW is. Ppl leave on a goddamn lull with a big ol' yawn. That's not how you bring ppl back. Lower card tapings should never happen post-Dynamite. Further, the damage Collision continues to do with so little star power is very apparent. I assume there's a logistics issue, but the show would greatly benefit from TNA Impact size buildings, and some serious consideration to it's presentation. Dynamite certainly passes well enough for competition, but Collision is certainly questionable. TNA's recent PPV in San Antonio at a 2,000 seat building is a great example of what that capacity could offer. Especially in comparison to 1/2 to 1/4 full buildings. I was in one and even with a fair card it was not conducive to a good time. NXT from this past Tuesday is another good example of making excellent use of a more reasonable sized venue . Every PPV is still an 'embarrassment of riches' and the TVs between are better than most any company I've seen in at least 25 years. Still seems like a good deal to me.

Edited October 12, 2024 by HarryArchieGus

[Matt D]

14 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

The Wednesday Dynamite show is pretty consistently the best Wrestling TV show each week. It's certainly not perfect, but it's 52 week schedule.

I, good sir, am a Collider instead.

[HarryArchieGus]

2 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I, good sir, am a Collider instead.

I Rampage every Saturday Morning or Afternoon and still Cowboy for Collision every Sunday. I never miss them and feel I am modestly rewarded for my efforts. That said, I wouldn't watch any of them without a FFWD option. Matt, how do you feel about the Varsity Athletes and their consistent TV duties? Have you hit a threshold yet? Last Saturday marked it for me. Tho I did hear the match was good.

[Curt McGirt]

I think having Stokely on the air no matter his client is a success. 

[COLETTI]

As somebody who hasn't watched without recording/ff'ing in a few months, nor watched anything since half of the previous week's Dynamite... it's just really not a captivating show right now. I'm not super stoked to say that. AEW should rule the motherfucking world... 

[Matt D]

45 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

I Rampage every Saturday Morning or Afternoon and still Cowboy for Collision every Sunday. I never miss them and feel I am modestly rewarded for my efforts. That said, I wouldn't watch any of them without a FFWD option. Matt, how do you feel about the Varsity Athletes and their consistent TV duties? Have you hit a threshold yet? Last Saturday marked it for me. Tho I did hear the match was good.

This is what I wrote a few days ago about their last ROH match.

Spoiler

ROH TV 10/3/24

Dustin Rhodes/Marshall Von Erich/Ross Von Erich vs Tony Nese/Ariya Daivari/Mark Sterling

MD: I wrote a few days ago (and then reposted it here) about how some of the old ways need to come back, and I meant it, and this match was reminiscent of Heenan teaming with his family in 83 AWA for very entertaining matches. And this, I think, was an entertaining match that was worked well. The problem is that Sterling just isn't credible. It's not his fault. He works hard, tries a number of different things, is sufficiently irritating and punchable. He even goes the extra mile with some very well crafted, clever social media videos. But those are only for people that seek them out, basically.

The bigger issue is that his guys don't win, not even on ROH. On Dark, they won. Nese didn't get big wins over big wrestlers, but he came off as dangerous enough with the shot in the corner and the pumphandle pile driver. He's absolutely selfless in the ring, willing to be one of the rawest, truest heels in the company. Completely unlikable. Theoretically valuable because there's only a handful of people who are willing to stooge. (That's why I'm ok with Saraya sticking around - super solid stooging, even if maybe they should stop using her husband's theme song and think of the optics of everything a bit more. AEW doesn't have as many comparative advantages vs 2024 WWE as it did vs 2019 WWE as the latter was a trash fire, but one that remains is to be more moral and progressive). As noted, Sterling did just about everything right here, but it wasn't getting the reactions it should. The fans only woke up when Dustin worked the corner with big slaps on the turnbuckles. They use the Premier Athletes almost every week. There should really be some way to fix this, even if it's just making Woods seem like more of a protected threat within each match and the other guys be the ones who lose the offense. Like Gordy with the Freebirds maybe? I'm glad they gave Sterling an opportunity in his homestate but for a guy doing everything right in there, this all should have been more heated.

 

[SovietShooter]

1 hour ago, HarryArchieGus said:

NXT from this past Tuesday is another good example of making excellent use of a more reasonable sized venue .

To your point here, according to Wrestletix, Dynamite actually outdrew NXT.

 

1 hour ago, HarryArchieGus said:

It's their (comparatively) clear need to boost the production. Their contemporaries on Mondays/Fridays are absolutely murdering them with their 'state of the art' Look and Feel. There's is an event (even when it's often enough not). I'm patient and completely accept what AEW TV looks and feels like, but it would markedly benefit them to put some serious resources here

I've been saying for years (not necessarily on here, cuz I was gone for quite awhile) but rather than try to copy WWE's production and presentation style, they should copy UFC.

One of the big criticisms (!) of AEW is that they just put on good matches for the sake of good matches. Lean into that and present the matches that way. Announce main events weeks in advance, and hammer them home in the weeks before. Take advantage of the roster size and schedule in that way. Get rid of matches during picture-in-picture, and do entrances P-i-P.  Have interviews at ringside right after matches, like a "sideline reporter". Instead of doing pyro and trying to make a "spectacle", have valets and "ring girls". 

A good reference point for what I'm talking about is CMLL's presentation in Arena Mexico. They have a very high production value, and a major league feel, but it isn't anything like what WWE is doing. NJPW also has high production value, and a completely different presentation. 

[Ramo2653]

On 10/9/2024 at 1:16 PM, Kevin Wilson said:

Its really interesting and honestly I don't really know what is wrong with AEW or WWE in-ring when it comes to the women on the 'main' brands. I can't outright agree as both women's matches at the WWE PLE last week weren't very good, but I agree that Mone hasn't been too impressive in AEW either and a lot of their title matches are flat. I think both promotions have the talent (Rhea, Iyo, Bayley, Belair, Asuka in WWE and Stat, Willow, Shida, Hayter, Toni in AEW to name a few in both) but the matches themselves seem to not deliver as often as they should on either side. Doesn't mean both promotions don't deliver sometimes as they do but the consistency isn't there, maybe because they average just a match or two a week its just more glaring when a match doesn't hit.

I feel like we'll never get a really good answer without someone who wrestles in these types of environments chiming in since it could be a few things: not enough ring time, which could be interpreted in a few ways. One of the things about wrestling on TV compared to a non televised show is timing, like you have to be able to knock out a good 5 minute match or a 10 minute or or 15 or 20 depending on where you are on the card and what's happening that week. We all have our preferences on what type of wrestling we like and a 5 minute TV might be perfection to someone and a total waste of time to someone else.

I know from attending WWE tapings and house shows, the womens matches can vary a lot and what they can showcase is different. I once saw a Eva Marie/Candace LaRae match at an NXT house show that was great and I don't think something like that would get more than 2 minutes with a stupid finish if it made it to TV. Still haven't made it to an AEW show due to COVID and other obligations when they've come to town.

For Mone one of her best skills was pacing and space and she kind of lost it after her injury. It will probably take some time to get back and adjust to whatever her level of athleticism is now. I think her AEW work is good but I don't think her character is quite there yet? Like she could probably use someone to bounce ideas off of (aka someone saying "that's bad and here's why) and most of the roster could too. Like why did Statlander turn face and drop Stokely? And "Born Again Kristen" is dumb and not even in a light chuckle way.

8 hours ago, Zimbra said:

AEW's inability to find a consistent role for Stoke is one of their most baffling failures.

One of the "dirt sheet" guys said in an interview that the issue with Stoke is that he works more on getting himself over than his guys and I see it a lot. The only one that he didn't was Stat.

6 hours ago, Matt D said:

I, good sir, am a Collider instead.

Nothing like Collison on the DVR with Sunday breakfast. Maybe a Saturday night if I'm not going out and just order a pizza, but Sundays are the best.

[Ramo2653]

As I'm watching Rampage I felt like that Mone promo was probably one of her best and she seemed way more relaxed and in her character.

As Caster and Bowens came out, I thought why is Caster wearing that damn jacket and then MxM jumped em and set up a tag match for the PPV (preshow I assume). Also great fired up promo from Mansour.

Mortos vs The Butcher is a Rampage ass match and I'm here for it. Jarrett asking Roddy about how Bennett communicates with Mortos on commentary with a hit of seriousness cracked me.

Congrats on Harley tying up the loose thread of Anna Jay running around with Saraya and Harley and then going to Japan and not getting back with them.

Also the main event is also the most Rampage match! And it was pretty good!

 

[hammerva]

Did I hear Statlander last promo right and is she trying to get over "Born Again Kristian"?    If so I am sure that is going to go over well.    While I believe she was always a better face than heel,  it would have been nice to see if she could keep it up and improve.   But unfortunately I think they are running out of competitors for Mercedes Mone to use and turned her.   Which is insane given you have Jamie Hayter wasting away in feuds with Saraya and now Penelope Ford.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2024 by hammerva

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, hammerva said:

 

Did I hear Statlander last promo right and is she trying to get over "Born Again Kristian"? 

 

*Kristin, because it’s her name.  Still lame, though.  Fine if she says it once, no good if she keeps using it.

[Matt D]

Here’s my take on the tag from Tuesday. I get a little emotional.

http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2024/10/aew-five-fingers-of-death-107-1013-part.html?m=1

[Niners Fan in CT]

On 10/9/2024 at 12:43 PM, SovietShooter said:

We're kinda stuck with Mercedes; AEW is paying her handsomely and she can't work.

Every match she's worked for NJPW has gotten 4 stars or above from Dave and above an 8.0 on cagematch.   Stars/ratings aren't my thing but it's better to point to that than to argue with people over things that are subjective.  This includes her match with Momo from the last NJPW Strong show.  

To add to that,  both her match with Willow at 'Double or Nothing' was 4.5 stars and her match with Vaquer at 'Forbidden Door' was 4 stars.  

So you may have your opinion,  but most people disagree with it. 

[tbarrie]

59 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Every match she's worked for NJPW has gotten 4 stars or above from Dave and above an 8.0 on cagematch.   Stars/ratings aren't my thing but it's better to point to that than to argue with people over things that are subjective.

Wait, are you implying that Dave's ratings and the cagematch community's ratings somehow aren't completely subjective? 

[Curt McGirt]

I tried to watch Rampage but none of that interested me. Not even the match with the goat-man.