EVA Posted October 9 Posted October 9 This is a very weird conversation for me to look in on, because I think most WWE women’s matches are pretty shitty. Like, besides the Horsewomen (which I guess just means Bayley right now), the Joshis, and Bianca, I’m not sure who’s supposed to be good over there? Like, Rhea is fine in the ring, but I’m still waiting on her to have a particularly memorable singles match with someone besides Becky or Charlotte. 3
Casey Posted October 9 Posted October 9 I mean, NXT is drowning in good female talent. That’s always been the case though, for the most part. For me, it’s the only part of that show worth anything. I would take a thousand Liv Morgan or Candice LeRae matches over watching Britt Baker or Anna Jay wrestle like they’re in quicksand. It’s all subjective obviously. I’m sure somewhere there’s a massive Anna Jay fan that would protest what I just said.
EVA Posted October 9 Posted October 9 I feel like every match I see from a woman in WWE developmental looks like exactly like the “here’s a men’s spot you’ve seen before but at -50% speed” stuff you’re talking about. 2
Stefanie Sparkleface Posted October 9 Posted October 9 12 minutes ago, Casey said: I’m sure somewhere there’s a massive Anna Jay fan that would protest what I just said. Eh she's not speedy. They can't all be Masato Yoshino. 1
Technico Support Posted October 9 Posted October 9 1 hour ago, Zakk_Sabbath said: I'm sure Madison Rayne is a lovely human being, and I must emphasize that I appreciate her hard work in helping build that kick ass TNA KO division way back when... but my God I would sooner trust Helen Keller to put matches together for these women Oh man I forgot about Rayne's abysmal handful of AEW matches. Horrible flashback. 3
AxB Posted October 9 Posted October 9 I mean, look at other sports. Lots of great players turn into shit coaches/managers. Lots of the greatest coaches/ managers of all time had mediocre playing careers. Very rare that an all-time great player also becomes a great coach. 3
Curt McGirt Posted October 9 Posted October 9 4 hours ago, Technico Support said: I need an org chart. I want one too, that looks like the Mafia Family charts the FBI makes. One for the heels, one for the faces. 28 minutes ago, Technico Support said: Oh man I forgot about Rayne's abysmal handful of AEW matches. Horrible flashback. I was reminded of them too and HOO BOY that was some on-screen suck. Some people are only good teachers. It's good to hear about GIANT BERNARDOOOOOOO being a teacher for WWE. I always had a soft spot for him... and Chris Masters too. For every Lashley they're gonna bring in, an old journeyman like him would be more welcome to me. 1 2
Technico Support Posted October 9 Posted October 9 (edited) 22 minutes ago, AxB said: I mean, look at other sports. Lots of great players turn into shit coaches/managers. Lots of the greatest coaches/ managers of all time had mediocre playing careers. Very rare that an all-time great player also becomes a great coach. Right! Just being good at something doesn't mean you have the skill to teach others, motivate them, etc. Also, some people are naturally gifted and/or worked like crazy and it's not like that person can just transfer their abilities to others via teaching. In every field, you're going to find people who were exceedingly good at their jobs, got promoted to management, and sucked at that. Edited October 9 by Technico Support 1
Overly Critical Man Posted October 9 Posted October 9 6 hours ago, Casey said: I’m just not into it. Unpopular opinion, but DG going to WWE wouldn’t have upset me at all. Take MJF with you too, please. No one wants them over there either. They are AEW’s burdens to bear.
For Great Justice Posted October 10 Posted October 10 (edited) Aww man I like DG as a character. When used right, he’s the jock asshole schoolyard bully heel that, it turns out, comes from a horrible lower class family situation. He’s just a dick at school to unleash that rage and, before the end of the movie, the protagonist finds this all out and they slowly become best friends. He’s really good at being that guy. They abandoned that for the dancing stuff over the past year and he’s suffered for it. Edited October 10 by For Great Justice 1 1
just drew Posted October 10 Posted October 10 2 hours ago, Casey said: I mean, NXT is drowning in good female talent. That’s always been the case though, for the most part. For me, it’s the only part of that show worth anything. I would take a thousand Liv Morgan or Candice LeRae matches over watching Britt Baker or Anna Jay wrestle like they’re in quicksand. It’s all subjective obviously. I’m sure somewhere there’s a massive Anna Jay fan that would protest what I just said. I wouldn’t say I’m a huge Anna Jay fan, but she seems vastly improved after her trip to Japan… 5
HarryArchieGus Posted October 10 Posted October 10 (edited) 4 hours ago, caley said: I think this could be a big part of it but I also think she works better from underneath as a face because her offence is flashy and she's, quite frankly, tiny. The problem is her character (I'm the bossss...I'm the besssst....I'm doing that goofy dance!) mainly works better as a face. Plus she stumbled into that awkward AEW fan reaction ("OMG a new wrestler! They're no longer gonna be held back! Well, wait I don't want them going over him/her! Boo! Go back to WWE") much like Saraya, Toni Storm, Ruby etc. that necessitated the abrupt heel turn (I still don't buy that she was brought in to be a heel all along, I think the heel turn was an absolute pivot based off the fans not wanting her to beat Willow). I think she'd work better from underneath against Statlander (Although she seems to be an abrupt face again now too), or fighting off Saraya and crew, providing back-up for Willow moreso than needing her own heater. There's no question Mercedes was brought in to be a babyface. It wasn't as simple as the fans 'not wanting her to beat Willow'. Mone had a run of very bad promos which many have still not gotten over. She needed to adapt and learn how to speak; which she pretty clearly did. There was also some seriously poor timing on AEW's part with her still needing to be cleared. The Punk pre-match victory lap wasn't going to cut it. I like that AEW shifted with their audience, and I like Mercedes as a heel. I can't imagine the Boss, the best, and the dance ever working as a babyface, but then WWE is truly an alternate Universe. The bold text above is pretty accurate. As somebody who never saw more than a couple matches from her WWE catalog, I've found her AEW run consistently strong. I love watching her bump all over the ring like a Nut. The Willow and Vaquer matches were both excellent, and hardly one sided. I'm not sure what ppl were expecting from the Baker match, but other than being the victim of marathon timing and a sleepy crowd, I fail to see how the work in that match was anything less than good. I'd argue, full title run included, it was as good of a Baker match as we've seen in AEW. Shida is inconsistent, and so were Mone's matches with her, but hardly terrible. The PPV match was, again, victim to being placed on a marathon show with better matches. Compare these 'horrible' matches with Baker or Shida to Jade's or Julia Hart's TNT title matches. Remember Julia v Abadon at Worlds End? The Emi Sakura match on this Dynamite wasn't designed to be anything more than it was - a good TV showcase for the Champion. Don't get me wrong, I love Emi, but did her role change from enhancement talent? Edited October 10 by HarryArchieGus 2
Jamal Posted October 10 Posted October 10 Thought Mercedes/Emi was perfectly fine. Still unsure why the abrupt switch for Stat back to face after she had such a strong victory over Willow in their feud but interested in seeing her face Mercedes. Still unsure of what Camille is supposed to be. One week, she's an enforcer. The next, she's a taller Harley Cameron. Willow vs Mariah should be fun. 1
Curt McGirt Posted October 10 Posted October 10 3 hours ago, For Great Justice said: the dancing stuff I don't think that's a problem. It's one move, and it gets a pop. It's also used like a taunt in a video game. 2 1
HarryArchieGus Posted October 10 Posted October 10 (edited) AEW shows with Belts or TItles in the name are likely to feature very little actual Title matches of note. The Mox promo to begin was strong with good verbiage. I don't recall what was said in the Danielson reply as I was focused on the terrible production. The Darby/Brody segment had all the right intentions, energy and aggressions no matter how silly the talk. Daniel Garcia arriving was a pleasant surprise. I was cool with the idea of him jumping to help tighten up the WWE mid-card. Hologram v Komander was a lot of fun. It felt like unashamedly Lucha Libre, warts and all. I get a sneaking suspicion that Rush/Dralistico/Beast Mortos will not Actually be managed by Jake Roberts, but I'm happy to be wrong. I'm a bit bummed by the sudden end of the Don/Rush relationship. Good Mark Briscoe promo. I suspect he can get a good match out of Jericho. The Daniel Garcia segment was fine if a bit earnest and cliched. I like Garcia, but there's a lot of work to be done to get him into the position he's shooting for. The Womens First Fall 4 Way was indeed rotten. Mariah on commentary and her post match attack were the best things about this. The Ford/Hayter portion and Harley's blatant interference (showcasing just how stupid 4 ways are) were particularly awful. The Willow promo and pounce on Mariah were a bit odd. Why have Willow promo into the camera addressing Mariah who's laid out beside her? The Jay White squash/promo were fine. I'm curious to see who goes over v Hanger? The Hook segment was uh a little silly. I dunno how it happened, but I've become interested in Kip Sabian. Emi v Mercedes wasn't quite the Hayter match, but that's high expectations. This was a fine TV showcase fit for a Champion. The Stat turn is incredibly disappointing. Whatever the deal between her and Stoke, certainly they could have at least kayfabed a reason for the break-up. Especially with the lengths they had Stat go to in order to convince the audience what an asshole she is. Having Stokely in the next segment just rubs the insult in. The Private Party promo was inspired. Killing them to the alter of the BCC to push them into a Tag Title shot feels like an AEW Original Mystery. The Ospreay-Callis segment was a lot of fun. Very well executed. The Top Flight promo was unnecessary. I wish they'd send Action and the Martins to Japan for a year. A couple months even. And Leila Grey just needs to be booked to wrestle. Danielson/Yuta v Pac/Claudio was a fun TV Main Event. This was certainly not a great show, but I can't say I didn't have fun along the way. Edited October 10 by HarryArchieGus 3
Jenalysis Posted October 10 Posted October 10 The C2 showed the evolution of what the dance was for Garcia. Garcia is legit the closest thing AEW has to a successful NJPW homegrown from Young Lion talent with the evolution of his gimmick from rookie to midcarder to perhaps something more who wasn't a 2018-9 signing, 1
The Natural Posted October 10 Posted October 10 (edited) 5 hours ago, Curt McGirt said: I don't think that's a problem. It's one move, and it gets a pop. It's also used like a taunt in a video game. Like Pants does in real life. Sorry, I had to take the set up Curt McGirt left me. :). Edited October 10 by The Natural
twiztor Posted October 10 Posted October 10 Garcia's dance will be over FOREVER. when he's in a more serious match/feud, it will be downplayed and he won't use it. But when things cool down or he is doing showcase matches or whatever, he'll bust it out and the crowd will pop. i think it's a good addition. was surprised/confused when Archer didn't run out during the Ospreay/Callis segment. i thought that was the most compelling part of the entire show. And i am extremely ambivalent about Fletcher, so that's about as big of a win as you could hope for. 1
The Natural Posted October 10 Posted October 10 329,000 viewers for AEW Dynamite. I had to do a double check as I thought I'd read it wrong. Fuck.
twiztor Posted October 10 Posted October 10 3 minutes ago, The Natural said: 329,000 viewers for AEW Dynamite. I had to do a double check as I thought I'd read it wrong. Fuck. that is awful. I'd assume the Tuesday timeslot hurt as much as anything (i completely forgot that it switched nights). As @EVA pointed out, AEW is terrible about promoting things (for example, has anything been announced for Collision this week? Is it even airing with the PPV on Saturday night? if so, when?) Hell, they just gave away Danielson/Okada III by announcing it THE NIGHT BEFORE VIA TWITTER. i don't need Excalibur speedreading every single match that's going to take place, but give people a reason to tune in. 4
Just Adam Bay Bay Posted October 10 Posted October 10 Hell I prefer AEW to WWE and I still almost forgot it was on Tuesday night. I got home from work ate dinner, and then remembered it was on about a minute before it went live. They really do need to up their advertising game.
just drew Posted October 10 Posted October 10 2 hours ago, The Natural said: 329,000 viewers for AEW Dynamite. I had to do a double check as I thought I'd read it wrong. Fuck. I'm not sure I totally buy those Nielsen numbers. Having said that, AEW HAS to promote better. Both on their own tv shows and outside advertising. One of my biggest beefs with TK is that I really think he believes that everyone loves wrestling matches as much as he does, and that all they need to know is that folks are wrestling on Wednesday nights, and people will tune in, because that's how he is. I hope AEW learns from this as a company, because I think by and large the shows have been really good, and I want them to thrive long-term. 4
Just Adam Bay Bay Posted October 10 Posted October 10 19 minutes ago, just drew said: I'm not sure I totally buy those Nielsen numbers. Having said that, AEW HAS to promote better. Both on their own tv shows and outside advertising. One of my biggest beefs with TK is that I really think he believes that everyone loves wrestling matches as much as he does, and that all they need to know is that folks are wrestling on Wednesday nights, and people will tune in, because that's how he is. I hope AEW learns from this as a company, because I think by and large the shows have been really good, and I want them to thrive long-term. He really should have spent some of that sweet Warner money to buy ad time during the MLB Playoff games on TBS and Max. That way people would have known better that it was on Tuesday and the different time slot. And I get we don’t get along, but your idea of him setting up developmental or buying Atlanta and using it for matches for a show on Max is one of the best I’ve read recently. It would help the younger talent immensely and I don’t see a downside (other than the cost of buying it) for Khan. 3
ExcellenceofAirPollution Posted October 10 Posted October 10 (edited) The show moved days and timeslots (9-11 instead of 8-10) against MLB playoffs and NXT on CW. The rating gets tossed and I'm not even sure it's that bad all things considered I've got a rant about Stat and the women's division in me but I don't have the energy right now I do want to speak on Ospreay and the Callis family. Good segment except OSPREAY LEFT THE CALLIS FAMILY MONTHS AGO. WTF. Remember when Callis asked for his favor from Will to team with KF in the gauntlet? That was done because Will had already left the Callis Family. And it was a big angle on a big show leading to a big match. So why the fuck did they need to do this segment like this? Why is Callis talking like they're still a thing and he might toss him aside like he did Omega? This was so fucking weird. The segment works if Ospreay had been with the family this entire time.....or if this segment was done months ago.....it didn't make any sense now. Even just adjust the verbiage and it works better, but as is it's like they forgot/ignored their own creative And what the fuck was up with the Jake Roberts/Archer/Rush stuff? Rush joined Don Callis months ago and proceeded to disappear from television. I think he teamed with Takeshita once? He was never around and never seen as part of the family, always just KF and Takeshita. He comes back on Collision a couple weeks ago after the Hologram/Dralistico/Mortos 3 way and does the LFI thing with Dralistico and Mortis. Now Callis is trading him to Roberts who hasn't been on TV in what, 6 months? I saw someone say maybe Tony saw people talking about trading clients and he did it and that's cute and all, but how about you actually establish these manager/client relationships before you start swapping contracts? And the worst part is we all know Roberts isn't going to be on TV regularly and hell Rush will probably disappear again anyway like he's done a half dozen times in AEW, and this will all be forgotten and pointless I love Jake but I remember reading a while back he's had health problems and travel is tough so I figured the segment was to write him off. I'd salvage it by having LFI almost immediately destroy him to show that they're truely "ungovernable" but Mortos should be a face now anyways.....meh I don't know man, I watched Collision and Dynamite back to back and there was some good wrestling (4 way and singles with Kommander and Hologram stood out, Darby/TV was fun, BCC tag) but creative feels like a mess right now. AEW is like a roller coaster creatively with ups and downs, people getting tossed off, vomit, skinned knees and chipped teeth. I wish Tony wouldn't attempt to run and book a wrestling promotion while also negotiating a TV deal and doing whatever he does with the Jags and EPL but it is what it is. I'm simultaneously enjoying the product right now and frustrated at how many holes there are and how much better it could be if they'd just tighten shit up Edited October 10 by ExcellenceofAirPollution 2
AxB Posted October 10 Posted October 10 20 minutes ago, ExcellenceofAirPollution said: people getting tossed off EXCUSE ME? Oh wait, it means something else in America. Never mind. Also, Trent? and Will Hobbs are members of the Don Callis family. But they've not been around due to injuries and stuff. 3
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