Full Gear V - 11/18/2023

[NoFistsJustFlips]

45 minutes ago, A.M.B. said:

Again, I said ignoring the medical clearance, because while it’s silly, it happens in wrestling, it’s a common trope, I get it and am willing to look past it. What I’m talking about is the fact that Tony Khan would watch Jay White’s buddies break the rules to injure his champion (I guess you’re saying a post match beatdown is fair play?) and then act like there’s no other option but to award Jay the title since his champion can’t compete. Also ignoring the fact that they didn’t vacate when Punk was injured and they didn’t even wait for a diagnosis for MJF. I have to accept that the main event is completely thrown out because apparently no one in the back is willing to fight Jay for a vacant title on a whim, or Tony just didn’t think of that as an alternative and was okay losing the main event for his big show even though he has all the power to fix things. This all might work if there was a cut throat heel booker who had no sympathy, but TK is constantly watching his booking plans get ruined by heels and is apparently fine with doing nothing about it.

You're making it harder than it has to be. TK also could have just made White give the belt back to MJF six weeks ago too if we look at it from your point of view. The thing is you have to look at it from the perspective TK isn't an authority figure. He's a match maker. He's not there to hand down punishments or "fix" anything. Swerve broke into a dudes house and intimidated the dude's kid and it was allowed to air on TV. Swerve broke into Nick Wayne's house and stabbed him with window glass and it as allowed to air on TV.

This is all under the same umbrella. He's not going to strip MJF of the title unless he can't make the advertised PPV match. We didn't get far enough to say there was no replacement. It's entirely possible had Cole not come out, the "story" was White is being awarded the belt on a forfeit and defending it against someone new later. You reference the Punk thing but Punk didn't get the belt taken away because he didn't miss a scheduled PPV defense. He got hurt on a TV weeks away fro a PPV, so a match maker can make a new match with time to think and plan.

TK ain't there to lay down the law in kayfabe (real life either actually lol). In kayfabe he's there to make money. MJF & Adam Cole make him money. It's entirely logical (to me) that he'd afford them extra wiggle room to make sure he keeps making money out of them. Same way legit crazy pro athletes get away with nonsense. Adam Cole is Ochocinco. MJF is TO. Punk was Antonio Brown tho, so he just had to go.
 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

3 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

I've probably typed this a few times but I forget when I last typed it but having the most bored looking motionless fans on the hard cam all night probably has a way of making people think that the fans in the arena not on camera are represented by the people on the hard cam.

Ya and it's made worse with the design of The Forum too. The hardcam shot wasn't packed with people for rows and rows and rows like normal. It has that weird close concourse with curtains. Made it look like there was a small crowd too. I think that was a big reason why they kept pulling back and going to wide shots to show the audience in full.

[odessasteps]

They don’t need an on screen GM because just about everyone watching knows that the owner is the booker/GM.

[Cobra Commander]

6 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

TK also could have just made White give the belt back to MJF six weeks ago too

Yeah there's a real "Boys will be Boys" sort of reaction to White having the physical title belt for weeks.

But then again, I just got finished watching weeks of 1987 JCP where Terry Taylor and Eddie Gilbert stole the NWA TV title belt and the solution was to send them a registered letter (spoiler alert: they didn't give the belt back after getting that letter). So at least there's old timey precedent for belt-theft angles where the promotion seems unable to hire a collections agency to get their stuff back.

1 minute ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Ya and it's made worse with the design of The Forum too.

gotta love a hard cam shot that's the equivalent of posting photos with tons of blank space because you didn't think to crop some of that out.

I always hear how the sound mix isn't good, and it wouldn't shock me if it wasn't.. but sometimes what you can see tells you more than what you can hear.

Just now, odessasteps said:

They don’t need an on screen GM because just about everyone watching knows that the owner is the booker/GM.

also nobody really needs an on-screen GM because that's super played out

[odessasteps]

If you want to try and have kind of diegesis, there should be a matchmaker of some kind to facilitate things. 
 

[Cobra Commander]

thinking to self: "what would be the right name for the Wrestling Fed equivalent to an FA (Football [soccer] Association)"

this being wrestling, maybe the matchmakers are officially anonymous to avoid being pressured or threatened by angry wrestlers, winkwink

[Matt D]

Caught the first half of the show. I basically liked everything.

• Eddie vs Lethal: will write this up later but my thesis on champ Eddie is that he's inherently different than normal Eddie and this was him facing off against the 83 Heenan family basically. It was fun.
• Claudio vs Matthews: hard hitting, high octane, all action. I might have liked the Yuta match a little more because it breathed a little more, but this was very good.
• Joe/MJF vs Gunns: Not as fun as the last two ROH Tag Title matches but I thought it worked. I wish MJF had enjoyed tagging with Joe a little more. We just got one or two tastes of that like when he went for the tandem muscle buster. Joe was great in this, feeding into the crowd's adulation while still being a heel overall.
• Six-Man: Christian was brilliant in this. The entrances were amazing. I loved Edge press slamming Wayne. I thought Wayne and Darby worked really well together actually. Loved the transition to heel offense (Christian being Christian) on Darby. Luchasaurus is wildly better than he used to be. All good stuff and a rousing post-match.
• Cassidy vs Mox: Didn't feel as big as the  last match, since that was main eventing, but everything made sense and felt grisly and grounded and believable, including just how much Mo took because 1.) it all did have consequence in the end and 2.) He's Mox and he was just that pissed. Cassidy wasn't hurt and he wasn't worn down and he had a new trick or two and he knew now what he lost and he overcame. I liked it!
• Storm vs Shida: Hard hitting, sound for the most part, entertaining. Yes, the finish was wonky (and really, did the practice it, figure out how it would work at all?) but then that's the magic of Toni Storm to one degree, right? We're all just players on her stage, etc. The good far out weighed the bad.
• 4 Way Ladder Match: Very well put together and thought out. No one needs this, but it was clever. I liked how Starks popped up out of nowhere a few times. The stuff with King and Bill was really good as was that one Cash vs RUSH exchange. Dralistico wore bright colors and hit a dive or two (and ate a Ganso bomb on a ladder). FTR obviously spent a long time thinking through things.
• 3 Way TBS Title match: I don't get why we need both Skye Blue and Julia if they're not working together but this was way smoother than it ever could have been a year or two ago and that's a testament to all three women. Basically, there was no light seen here, no error. Julia was on the whole way and you bought both Stat's annoyance with the whole situation and Skye's petulance when things didn't go her way.

[tbarrie]

21 minutes ago, Jenalysis said:

So I'm not just pissed, I feel the same way I felt during the Roman wins LOL Rumble.  I know some of this is personal, but this was so fucking stupid and it hurt my favorite wrestler.   If TK reads this, I want him to know that I want to kick him in the nuts for this match, though I will forgive him eventually if things turn around.   This is legit the angriest I've felt as a wrestling fan ever, which I know is irrational as hell, but it hurt watching this, especially since there was like 8 to 10 different ways to have a  more logical ending to this- the easiest being Joe saves MJF to save his title shot.

I understand if I get a vacation due to this, I probably deserve it, but it's how I feel.  I've been around this board and previous iterations 25 years or so, and this is the first time I've posted something like this.I wonder if it's ok to feel this way?

I'm not a mod, but I can't imagine expressing anger at a booking decision is enough to get you a time out. Maybe don't actually kick Tony Khan in the nuts, though, should you ever have the opportunity.

[odessasteps]

4 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

thinking to self: "what would be the right name for the Wrestling Fed equivalent to an FA (Football [soccer] Association)"

this being wrestling, maybe the matchmakers are officially anonymous to avoid being pressured or threatened by angry wrestlers, winkwink

It used to just be “the championship committee” or “board of directors” in a lot of places. 

[Octopus]

I want Four GM’s.

Dynamite: Alex Marvez

Collision: Arn Anderson

Rampage: Evil Uno

ROH: Stokley Hathaway

then have a Survivor Slam multi man match!

[porksweats]

2 minutes ago, Octopus said:

I want Four GM’s.

Dynamite: Alex Marvez

Collision: Arn Anderson

Rampage: Evil Uno

ROH: Stokley Hathaway

then have a Survivor Slam multi man match!

They could elevate Mark Henry to the Rampage GM, you don't really see much of him anymore since they did away with the live dueling promos before the main event.

[HarryArchieGus]

Every time I see Tony's Not-Ready-for-Prime-Time-Player act imperfectly reading cue cards I'm so overjoyed, bursting with gratitude, for AEW's decision not to have an 'Authority Figure'. 

Excellent PPV. Hangman-Swerve in particular was so fun. That said, like many of you, I really struggled with the (continuing) rotten creative for the Jay White-MJF Main Event. The build to this show with the stolen title was tired and lame to begin with. And Jay didn't exactly nail the talk segments, but I sense he'll find his way with the microphone as he goes along. I'm very into MJF's line-up of challengers, but as somebody pointed out, that story made it difficult to believe White had a much of a chance of winning. Regardless, I was stoked to see how these two fantastic performers would work this. And then the buffoonery of this show long angle happened. I found myself ffwd/skimming most of the way through the actual match. Regardless, I admired seeing White and MJF get this nonsense over with a 4(?) hours in live crowd. I hope they, MJF/AEW, find a way to get better, and perhaps a wee bit more logical, with their brand of Sports Entertainment.

Edited November 20, 2023 by HarryArchieGus

[tbarrie]

1 hour ago, Matt D said:

Luchasaurus is wildly better than he used to be.

Which is saying something, because he's always been awesome!

[Log]

1 hour ago, Octopus said:

I want Four GM’s.

Dynamite: Alex Marvez

Collision: Arn Anderson

Rampage: Evil Uno

ROH: Stokley Hathaway

then have a Survivor Slam multi man match!

This is the first bad idea you’ve had. 

[Matt D]

The Swerve vs Page match was going so well but then Page came back way too soon after the DVD onto the cinder block/pile driver on the guardrail combo. Another two minutes of Swerve punishing him and then paintbrushing him to wake him up. That would have made the difference. Almost every other part of the match was Page in charge or 50/50. That was supposed to be the heat. I had to pause the playback and take a breath because I was so annoyed with them.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Matt D

[zendragon]

Was there a long segment in the Texas Death Match where Page was down but the ref was just not counting?

and if anyone wants another taste of swerves violence

 

[Curt McGirt]

Just can't do it anymore. Can't, can't, can't, can't, can't. 

NO MATT STRIKER. 

He makes me want to stick screwdrivers in my ears. 

[Cobra Commander]

1 hour ago, Octopus said:

I want Four GM’s.

Dynamite: Alex Marvez

Collision: Arn Anderson

Rampage: Evil Uno

ROH: Stokley Hathaway

then have a Survivor Slam multi man match!

Four GMs of Andrade, Danhausen, Stokely and Keith Lee to make the entire GM corps guys who disappear from TV for weeks at a time

[Phantom Lord]

I thought the show was really good. Match of the night was obviously Texas Death between Page and Swerve. Both looked good in this match. Hopefully it means something for Hangman in the future, but Swerve is who they should strap that rocket too as the next guy.

MJF/White was good too. I don't think the injury angle was needed. I mean they could have done it during the match and still had the same amount of drama around can MJF pull this off.

But yeah start to finish it was a really good show. 

[HarryArchieGus]

Re: 0 Hour
Kingston v Lethal was a nice TV match. Nothing exceptional, but a solid bit of business. Claudio v Buddy was, of course, terrific. MJF/Joe v Gunns didn’t quite come together, but Samoa Joe made the most of his minutes. The highlight being his run of offense that included Colten's wayward dropkick. The bells and whistles and angles and what was to come felt unnecessary, overwrought, silly, etc. etc. Interesting choice to lead into the PPV telling viewers the Main Event may not happen.

Re: LA Gear
Chrisian/Lucha/Wayne v Adam/Sting/Darby was a terribly fun opener. Nice pace and runtime. It all worked extremely well. As did the post match celebration. I skimmed passed the Jay/Tony/Adam!!! Segment. Very much dug Mox v OC. They did a great job of not repeating themselves. A darkhorse favorite. Toni Storm v Shida ‘did the deal’ nicely. The metal tray, yet another bell and/or whistle, was unnecessary. Nice Eddie Kingston promo, but slightly dumbfounded by the addition of yet another title belt. Speaking of things I hate about this generally great promotion: another fucking ladder match! I love Big Bill, Starks, FTR, LFI, and the Black/King tandem and was here to give them a chance with this tired fucking gimmick. I think I might hate slow motion ascents up the ladder in a ladder match more than anything in Wrestling. Regardless of my own groans, I was had by match’s end. So many of these guys looked like stars here. In particular Brody King, Bill, Starks and especially goddamn Rooosh! I love Starks/Bill, but they lack cohesion as a tag team. I saw the end of Julia v Stat v Skye, but it sounds like they proved something with this one. So happy for the Will Ospreay signing. I echo what I heard Jericho saying about Ospreay's incredible year and the bright future he has with his mostly untapped character/talking skillset. Swerve v Page was unreal. I love both, and feel very happy for what they accomplished. Swerve’s becoming truly a fucking star! And Hangman’s got his groove back. Again, the bells and whistles bloated this, but still! Near perfection and so fun. The Bucks v The Jets was solid. Following that near masterpiece, it was neat to see how these four pros worked the early stages. They found a nice flow along the way and built nicely to the finish. That said, I’m having trouble seeing any cohesion between Omega and Jericho. I sense they could be Champions, so I hope they figure it out. The Bucks tantrum felt poorly executed, but I love a heel direction for Matt and Nasty Nick. I had high hopes for MJF v Jay White. I love both these guys and was hoping they could rebound from the rotten build. Jay being unable to defeat a one foot MJF was hard to watch. Truthfully, I didn’t watch it, I skimmed passed most of this match. I liked some of what I stopped for – the MJF elbow drop to Jay on the floor was pretty insane. MJF also had one of the more effective ‘Cutter’ spots seen lately. But again, it was sad watching a true craftsman like Jay unable to finish off a one legged Max. Like somebody in the clear slowly ascending a ladder in a ladder match. Very generous and fun LA crowd to just go with all the shenanigans and provide such a buzz down the finish. I hated that main event, but loved/liked most of this show.

Edited November 20, 2023 by HarryArchieGus

[Matt D]

Re: MJF vs White.

You guys can tell me that I'm crazy:

https://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2023/11/aew-five-fingers-of-death-and-friends.html

Edited November 20, 2023 by Matt D

[Casey]

You’re absolutely insane.

[tbarrie]

32 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Re: MJF vs White.

You guys can tell me that I'm crazy:

https://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2023/11/aew-five-fingers-of-death-and-friends.html

Sorry Matt. Based on that write-up, you're not even mildly eccentric.

And I don't pay much attention to reactions anywhere but here. Are there really that many people who preferred the Texas death match to the main event last night? I realize opinions are subjective and all, but I still find that hard to fathom.

[zendragon]

@Matt Dyoure really good at writing about pro wrestling 

[Cobra Commander]

1 hour ago, Matt D said:

Re: MJF vs White.

You guys can tell me that I'm crazy:

https://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2023/11/aew-five-fingers-of-death-and-friends.html

yeah the whole friendship element to the Cole/MJF thing really does make me think that the idea of having one of them turn heel on the other, or having Cole be the devil, would be a mistake

so, for all the "the devil didn't do anything because Cole was at ringside because he's the devil" thing...

well, if you're trying to frame Adam Cole, you would not show up there because it would show that Cole isn't the guy

Of course, the list of good options there is sorta sparse so.