All Out V - 9/3/2023

[Dolfan in NYC]

Hey, you thought you were gonna, what?  Do stuff with your friends on Labor Day weekend?  lol no.

Live from Chicago!   It's All Out!  

THE CARD~ 

FOR THE TNT CHAMPIONSHIP - Luchasaurus (c) vs. Darby Allin

FOR THE TBS CHAMPIONSHIP - Kris Statlander (c) vs. Ruby Soho

FOR THE INTERNATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP - Orange Cassidy (c) vs. Jon Moxley

FOR THE ROH TELEVISION CHAMPIONSHIP - Samoa Joe (c) vs. Shane Taylor

FOR THE ROH TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP - Better Than You, Bay-Bay (Friedman / Cole, c) vs. The Dark Order (Reynolds / Silver)

† FOR THE TRIOS WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP - The Acclaimed (Bowens / Caster / Gunn , c) (with Dennis Rodman) vs. Jeff Jarrett / Satnam Singh / Jay Lethal

† THE OVER BUDGET BATTLE ROYALE

STRAP MATCH - Ricky Starks vs. Bryan Danielson

Powerhouse Hobbs vs. Miro

Kenny Omega vs. Konosuke Takeshita

Bullet Club Gold (A. Gunn / C. Gunn / White / Robinson) vs. FTR (Wheeler / Harwood) & The Young Bucks (M. Jackson / N. Jackson)

Eddie Kingston & Katsuyori Shibata vs. Blackpool Combat Club (Castagnoli / Yuta)

† Athena / Mercedes Martinez / Diamante vs. Hikaru Shida / Willow Nightingale / Skye Blue
 

 

==

† - Pre Show Match

[The Natural]

1 hour ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Hey, you thought you were gonna, what?  Do stuff with your friends on Labor Day weekend?  lol no.

Live from Chicago!   It's All Out!  

THE CARD~ 

FOR THE TNT CHAMPIONSHIP - Luchasaurus (c) vs. Darby Allin

 

--

Since it seems they're going to announce stuff for both shows concurrently, we'll open this too.  Because stuff is gonna get confusing quick. 

Had to catch myself posting All In here. Doubt I'll be the only one .

[hobo joe]

Having two PPVs a week apart is pretty dumb. Having two PPVs a week apart with such similar names is pretty dumb and hella confusing.

[John from Cincinnati]

Dumb but exciting! 

[odessasteps]

IIRC, at least This Tuesday in Texas was cheaper. 

[Craig H]

There's no way in fuck I'm paying $100 over the course of 7 days. 

Like, I love AEW a lot and don't have the complaints about Tony's intelligence that a lot of people have, but this is fucking bullshit. At the very least if you're going to charge money for it, charge $30 or something for All In and label it as a special event. The best thing to do would be to open it up to watch for free on BR OR Fite no matter where you live. And then charge your typical $50 for All Out.

And I'm a VPN+Fite user. On principle alone I don't feel like I should buy All In even if it's way cheaper on UK Fite.

[Zimbra]

Just putting it out there that Toshiaki Kawada was announced for Starrcast, which mean he'll be in Chicago the day of All Out.

[Log]

10 hours ago, Zimbra said:

Just putting it out there that Toshiaki Kawada was announced for Starrcast, which mean he'll be in Chicago the day of All Out.

Ok, now I want Kingston back for All Out. He wins his match, but then some heel group starts beating him down. Kawada comes out and starts Kawada-kicking everyone in his way. He and Eddie stand tall. That’s it. I’d be so happy just for that. 

[Zimbra]

That would be awesome, but part of me wants them to bring him in for a 10 second shot where Ricky Starks big-times him.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

On 8/7/2023 at 8:57 PM, hobo joe said:

Having two PPVs a week apart is pretty dumb. Having two PPVs a week apart with such similar names is pretty dumb and hella confusing.

I have to agree. I kinda figured All In was going to replace All Out since that was kinda the 'Jimmy Hart Legally Distinct' version of the same show, in the same building anyway. It'd be like if there was a world where AEW bought WWE instead of ROH, and decided to keep both Beach Break and Bash at the Beach on the calendar.

[Log]

Wasn't All In the name of the show that Cody/Elite put on based on Meltzer's bet that they couldn't draw 10,000?

I always thought All Out was a play on that once AEW was formed.

[Gorman]

1 hour ago, Log said:

Wasn't All In the name of the show that Cody/Elite put on based on Meltzer's bet that they couldn't draw 10,000?

I always thought All Out was a play on that once AEW was formed.

Yes on both counts.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

8 hours ago, Log said:

Wasn't All In the name of the show that Cody/Elite put on based on Meltzer's bet that they couldn't draw 10,000?

I always thought All Out was a play on that once AEW was formed.

This is essentially it, but because Cody & The Bucks did production through Ring of Honor, the deal was that Ring of Honor owned the footage and rights to the event. So AEW legally wasn't allowed to use the All In name. So riffed off of it with All Out. Since going all in and going all out essentially mean the same thing. But ROH kinda did The Bucks & Cody dirty. Sure we will film the event for you and sign off on music rights, but we own the footage and name is some shady shit. Some we're jealous you did so well energy.

[Dolphman 3000]

3 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

This is essentially it, but because Cody & The Bucks did production through Ring of Honor, the deal was that Ring of Honor owned the footage and rights to the event. So AEW legally wasn't allowed to use the All In name. So riffed off of it with All Out. Since going all in and going all out essentially mean the same thing. But ROH kinda did The Bucks & Cody dirty. Sure we will film the event for you and sign off on music rights, but we own the footage and name is some shady shit. Some we're jealous you did so well energy.

The way Tony Khan tells it, The Elite knew AEW was coming months in advance and could have given ROH/NJPW a heads-up instead of piggybacking off their infrastructure and then skipping town on both companies at the end of 2018

Unless you wanted them to cancel All In and reschedule it for 2019 as an AEW production, I'm not sure what you would have expected ROH contracted talents to have done differently

[NoFistsJustFlips]

4 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

The way Tony Khan tells it, The Elite knew AEW was coming months in advance and could have given ROH/NJPW a heads-up instead of piggybacking off their infrastructure and then skipping town on both companies at the end of 2018

Unless you wanted them to cancel All In and reschedule it for 2019 as an AEW production, I'm not sure what you would have expected ROH contracted talents to have done differently

ROH gave them all the permissions to run and promote a stand alone event. Then when they sold out instantly I feel ROH's stance on the event changed. It was a jealousy. I'm suggesting if you give your guys permission to do their own spinoff show (that they did 100% of the branding, marketing, and promotion for themselves), you don't then go ah well yeah we said you could doooo ittt..... but like you can't ownnnn itttt. It's a backhanded thing to do. If you give your guys the freedom to do it, don't nickle and dime them after the fact.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

And for clarification, ROH took ownership of the footage and event rights before AEW was announced & before The Bucks & Cody decided to leave. It wasn't retaliation for a perceived transgression. ROH were dicks just to be dicks. Without any justification to change the terms.

[Dolphman 3000]

11 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

ROH gave them all the permissions to run and promote a stand alone event. Then when they sold out instantly I feel ROH's stance on the event changed. It was a jealousy. I'm suggesting if you give your guys permission to do their own spinoff show (that they did 100% of the branding, marketing, and promotion for themselves), you don't then go ah well yeah we said you could doooo ittt..... but like you can't ownnnn itttt. It's a backhanded thing to do. If you give your guys the freedom to do it, don't nickle and dime them after the fact.

If I told you how Smart Mark Video made their money, your mind would totally be blown bro

Promoters who are too cheap to invest in their own promoters' license and video production generally pay someone else to use theirs

 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

21 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

If I told you how Smart Mark Video made their money, your mind would totally be blown bro

Promoters who are too cheap to invest in their own promoters' license and video production generally pay someone else to use theirs

 

What in the actual fuck are you talking about? Smart Mark isn't a wrestling promotion that told Mike Burns hey brother you can go out and do your own side project. And then after the fact went like well like sikkeeee, all the work you put in is actually our property. Smart Mark is a videographer service that you hire. You pay them x dollars. They produce your DVDs / streams and you split the profits with them based upon the deal you signed. But they don't own your footage. They just produce / display it based upon the contract you sign. Horrible analogy for this situation.

[John E. Dynamite]

On 8/7/2023 at 11:56 PM, John from Cincinnati said:

Dumb but exciting! 

The best kind of dumb! One of the better kinds of exciting!

[Dolphman 3000]

28 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

What in the actual fuck are you talking about? Smart Mark isn't a wrestling promotion that told Mike Burns hey brother you can go out and do your own side project. And then after the fact went like well like sikkeeee, all the work you put in is actually our property. Smart Mark is a videographer service that you hire. You pay them x dollars. They produce your DVDs / streams and you split the profits with them based upon the deal you signed. But they don't own your footage. They just produce / display it based upon the contract you sign. Horrible analogy for this situation.

Your default position to everything is "The Elite and their billionaire employer are victims, actually" and you work backwards from there

Cute gimmick

[NoFistsJustFlips]

No, my stance is pro the performers and anti the large entities that do petty things that stifle creativity and do punitive damage just because. Tony Khan isn't part of this equation. The Bucks & Cody should own the rights to the name All In & the footage to it. Not the old ROH. Not even the current AEW. If they sell or license it to TK, cool or whatever.

You seem to like to lick the boots of the big corporations and advocate for the workers to just shut the fuck up and be happy with their pittance. Pretty gross if you ask me.

[Eivion]

Did Cody and the Bucks actually front the majority of the money for All In? Was always under the impression that it was ROH who actually paid for it.

[twiztor]

10 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

This is essentially it, but because Cody & The Bucks did production through Ring of Honor, the deal was that Ring of Honor owned the footage and rights to the event. So AEW legally wasn't allowed to use the All In name. So riffed off of it with All Out. Since going all in and going all out essentially mean the same thing. But ROH kinda did The Bucks & Cody dirty. Sure we will film the event for you and sign off on music rights, but we own the footage and name is some shady shit. Some we're jealous you did so well energy.

ROH gave them all the permissions to run and promote a stand alone event. Then when they sold out instantly I feel ROH's stance on the event changed. It was a jealousy. I'm suggesting if you give your guys permission to do their own spinoff show (that they did 100% of the branding, marketing, and promotion for themselves), you don't then go ah well yeah we said you could doooo ittt..... but like you can't ownnnn itttt. It's a backhanded thing to do. If you give your guys the freedom to do it, don't nickle and dime them after the fact.

And for clarification, ROH took ownership of the footage and event rights before AEW was announced & before The Bucks & Cody decided to leave. It wasn't retaliation for a perceived transgression. ROH were dicks just to be dicks. Without any justification to change the terms.

is this accurate? do you have a source?

maybe i'm misremembering, but i do not recall this being the case back around when it happened. i feel like it would have made more noise. 

8 hours ago, Eivion said:

Did Cody and the Bucks actually front the majority of the money for All In? Was always under the impression that it was ROH who actually paid for it.

as was i, which makes ROH retaining the name/footage/licensing rights a whole lot more sense.

 

edit: i just spent ~15 minutes looking for the 2018 All In Thread but couldn't come across it. anyone able to track it down?
edit 2: found it! http://deathvalleydriver.com/forum/index.php?/topic/6697-the-cody-rhodesyb-all-in-show-thread/
edit 3: holy fuck, that thread is a trip. so much moving of the goalposts. 
"They'll never sell 10,000." (they did).
"if they're just piggybacking off BOLA then it doesn't count." (they didn't)
"If they get CM Punk and sell 10k it doesn't count." (they didn't)
"it's not indy wrestling now that Okada is announced." (obviously discounting the NJPW show earlier that year that didn't draw 10k)
"they sold out in an hour but the building will be empty because all the tickets went to bots and scalpers." (it wasn't, and they didn't). 
"this is a one-off show, it's not sustainable" (see AEW)
 

as expected, no mention of ROH "changing the terms" in some sort of jealous rage "just to be dicks". a Google search doesn't come up with any articles or opinion pieces that back up the claims @NoFists made. yeah, i'm gonna need tome real evidence here.

and props to @Pete and @Brian Fowler for this exchange:

https://ibb.co/xjJQLw4

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by twiztor

[zendragon]

Did the Elite not know the deal they where signing?

[John E. Dynamite]

9 hours ago, twiztor said:

edit: i just spent ~15 minutes looking for the 2018 All In Thread but couldn't come across it. anyone able to track it down?
edit 2: found it! http://deathvalleydriver.com/forum/index.php?/topic/6697-the-cody-rhodesyb-all-in-show-thread/
edit 3: holy fuck, that thread is a trip. so much moving of the goalposts. 
"They'll never sell 10,000." (they did).
"if they're just piggybacking off BOLA then it doesn't count." (they didn't)
"If they get CM Punk and sell 10k it doesn't count." (they didn't)
"it's not indy wrestling now that Okada is announced." (obviously discounting the NJPW show earlier that year that didn't draw 10k)
"they sold out in an hour but the building will be empty because all the tickets went to bots and scalpers." (it wasn't, and they didn't). 
"this is a one-off show, it's not sustainable" (see AEW)
**i'm only up to mid May, so likely more to come** 

and props to @Pete and @Brian Fowler for this exchange:

https://ibb.co/xjJQLw4

 

I like how the biggest haters are banned or admins.

Edited August 12, 2023 by John E. Dynamite