AEW - AUGUST 2023

[twiztor]

58 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

I would love to know more about 'why so many of their green talent, in need of reps, aren't working local Indies etc.?' I suspect it's more of a management call. 

for the record, i tend to feel like the "one women's match per show" is a WBD call as well, but wanted to clarify that it's not a known fact, just a reasonably suspected one.

and fully agree on the need for reps (whether on TV or not) for the "greens". i would also be interested on why there's not more of that happening with said talent on the indies. a broader question, for those who follow indies more than i: how is the indy scene these days? has AEW being viable changed that in any way? are there more/fewer indies than 5 years ago? 10 years? are more/fewer shows being run on a semi-big scale? i would imagine a decently large indy that streams its content could run afoul of AEW for that reason, leading to less AEW talent on future shows.  

[zendragon]

It seems pretty much ever indy streams somewhere.

I know that when WWE/AEW where competing for talent alot of people got snapped up and the pandemic seemed to have an effect of that talent not being able to be replenished. Where I'm at most Indys don't run weekly or even monthly.

[TheVileOne]

Seems like they should be sending more guys to do NJPW Strong shows and the like.

[JLowe]

Given that most indies run on weekends and the amount of talent who are on call for the Collision live show and ROH tapings on Saturdays, that likely further limits their ability to work indy shows. I did see an ad for a show in north Jersey that had a dozen or so AEW wrestlers advertised, including the Acclaimed.

[zendragon]

[Casey]

maybe the solution is that AEW just shouldn’t sign green talent until they’re ready? There’s no reason, for example, Anna Jay needed to be scooped up as quick as she was. I guess there’s always the fear that WWE will sign someone TK is interested in, but with a roster this deep and loaded, I don’t think it should matter.

Obviously exceptions can be made, but I don’t think Anna Jay or Griff or Andretti fall into that category. Nick Wayne, Billie Starkz… yeah, absolutely.

[EVA]

24 minutes ago, Casey said:

maybe the solution is that AEW just shouldn’t sign green talent until they’re ready? There’s no reason, for example, Anna Jay needed to be scooped up as quick as she was. I guess there’s always the fear that WWE will sign someone TK is interested in, but with a roster this deep and loaded, I don’t think it should matter.

Obviously exceptions can be made, but I don’t think Anna Jay or Griff or Andretti fall into that category. Nick Wayne, Billie Starkz… yeah, absolutely.

In Anna Jay’s case, they actually kinda did. Their dependence on international women absolutely decimated the division once the pandemic hit. They needed bodies, and Anna was available as one of QT’s students for the infamous Norcross tapings. And this was around the time that WWE was approaching anybody that looked decent who showed up on AEW TV/YT. They had to lock her down for the sake of having a division at all.

[wpdougie2180]

What is the reason they didn’t pick up experienced women like Marsha Slamovich or Killer Kelly when they were available? Why not Jordynne Grace now? Trinity? Kairi Sane? Use Kiera Hogan beyond being a jobber, she showed so much more than her current position when she was in iMPACT.  Look at iMPACT’s women division & compare it to AEW’s. The Hex & Kilynn King were/are right there. Put Athena on TV, the fixes are right there but not sure he’s ever wanted to fix them. Tony hired AQA, Marina Shafir, Madison Rayne, Taya Valkyrie & Layla Grey instead. May just be about talent evaluation *shrugs*

[Dolphman 3000]

1 minute ago, wpdougie2180 said:

Why not Jordynne Grace now?

Gresham burned a bridge for both of them

[John from Cincinnati]

9 minutes ago, wpdougie2180 said:

Why not Jordynne Grace now? 

She's taking time off. Might not be back till next year. 

[TheVileOne]

4 hours ago, Casey said:

maybe the solution is that AEW just shouldn’t sign green talent until they’re ready? There’s no reason, for example, Anna Jay needed to be scooped up as quick as she was. I guess there’s always the fear that WWE will sign someone TK is interested in, but with a roster this deep and loaded, I don’t think it should matter.

Obviously exceptions can be made, but I don’t think Anna Jay or Griff or Andretti fall into that category. Nick Wayne, Billie Starkz… yeah, absolutely.

The problem is that they signed way too many castoffs from WWE and ROH during the pandemic.

[Curt McGirt]

Why don't they just Dark Match the shit out of the shows to give the youngins their reps? 

[Casey]

13 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Why don't they just Dark Match the shit out of the shows to give the youngins their reps? 

Crowd burnout, I imagine? They already tape Rampage and ROH after Dynamite and Collision, adding a shit ton of dark matches before each of the main shows is just asking for (even more) trouble. They already have a hard time keeping fans for those tapings most of the time. You’re looking at fans being there for 4-5 hours twice a week through dark matches, live TV and then a show taping afterwards. That’s a lot.

Point blank - ROH isn’t what it once was, and should be a feeder league/developmental for AEW now.

Shit, just let Nick Jackson create an indie fed like he wants but tell him you gotta use some of this green talent AEW has.

[zendragon]

9 hours ago, Casey said:

maybe the solution is that AEW just shouldn’t sign green talent until they’re ready? There’s no reason, for example, Anna Jay needed to be scooped up as quick as she was. I guess there’s always the fear that WWE will sign someone TK is interested in, but with a roster this deep and loaded, I don’t think it should matter.

Obviously exceptions can be made, but I don’t think Anna Jay or Griff or Andretti fall into that category. Nick Wayne, Billie Starkz… yeah, absolutely.

The question then is what do people do to get ready? It’s not like WWE back in the day where they could send people to Memphis which was still running as a territory 

[Matt D]

Relationships with WrestlingOpen/Beyond and Defy as the AA promotions if ROH is AAA. Feed them some money, some talent, have them book people Tony's vaguely interested in. It doesn't need to be super formal. It kind of ends up working out that way anyway.

[Godfrey]

AEW needs house shows. Not just for the rookies, I think everyone on the roster would benefit from getting those reps. Sending your talent to other companies is fine but some of these folks need to be working the same opponent over and over in front of different crowds with an agent giving them notes before they run that match on TV. Thing is if they do house shows they have to commit or AEW’s brand will suffer, you need some of your big stars making towns to build that audience trust

[Zakk_Sabbath]

31 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

AEW needs house shows. Not just for the rookies, I think everyone on the roster would benefit from getting those reps. Sending your talent to other companies is fine but some of these folks need to be working the same opponent over and over in front of different crowds with an agent giving them notes before they run that match on TV. Thing is if they do house shows they have to commit or AEW’s brand will suffer, you need some of your big stars making towns to build that audience trust

I've got to big agree. Indy shots kind of aren't the answer to the reps problem in a way, because what makes a match great in a small venue might not mean it's necessarily great for TV. I mean, even the standards on an indy show differ depending on audience: your GCW match shouldn't be the same as your family-friendly high school gym benefit match. It's exactly as you said: with an AEW sanctioned house show, the advantage would be that a QT, Dustin, Double J, Arn, CD, etc. would ideally be waiting on the other side of the curtain to do a bit of a post mortem when they get back. And as far as hurting the brand: agree oversaturation is always a potential issue. Why not make ROH the 'house show' arm of the company? This way, you both drop the stigma of 'lol why is AEW running a tiny building in Lima, OH' AND you eliminate the expectation/disappointment when the tippy-top stars don't show up. I've mentioned this idea before, but if they could make it cost effective, I think the move would be to set up ROH in a small venue on Friday near or close to where Collision is taped Saturday, and you headline with an OC or Claudio banger or two - I think in major cities, the people would come. You can still do the Universal thing on off-weeks or weeks where a venue isn't available - like how sometimes after a Takeover, you'd get a week or two of NXT TV from the same show.

 

Edit: an example schedule for Grand Slam week would be:

 

Wednesday - Dynamite Live @ Arthur Ashe NYC

Friday - ROH Taping/Rampage - Rooftop at Pier 17/Hammerstein/Terminal 5/Webster Theater

Saturday - Collision Live - Long Island/Providence/Hartford/Bridgeport/Boston

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Zakk_Sabbath
Run Rampage live there too while you're at it so that the Dynamite and Collision tapings aren't 5.5 hours long anymore

[HumanChessgame]

I'm all for AEW still doing house shows in smaller venues. If they're in one city on Wednesday for Dynamite, then book a house show on Thursday in a smaller town an hour or so away at a 1000ish seat venue. I know a lot of people were working in Dustin's promotion and other indies but that's not something they can do on a regular basis depending on when they're working AEW's shows.

One of my biggest issues with ROH is that they haven't differentiated their roster enough from AEW and is fast becoming more of the new Dark. It was a necessary thing to have the youtube shows but I'd much rather have ROH as a defined brand with a complete separate roster. Giving some of the roster who don't have anything else to do regular spots is one thing, but just rotating guys in and out on a weekly basis just makes it seem like a side thought. ROH's schedule pre-covid of two shows a month (tv taping and then a bigger event) was a better setup than trying to squeeze the tapings in around AEW shows with a mostly empty building and dead audience.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

19 minutes ago, HumanChessgame said:

I'm all for AEW still doing house shows in smaller venues. If they're in one city on Wednesday for Dynamite, then book a house show on Thursday in a smaller town an hour or so away at a 1000ish seat venue. I know a lot of people were working in Dustin's promotion and other indies but that's not something they can do on a regular basis depending on when they're working AEW's shows.

One of my biggest issues with ROH is that they haven't differentiated their roster enough from AEW and is fast becoming more of the new Dark. It was a necessary thing to have the youtube shows but I'd much rather have ROH as a defined brand with a complete separate roster. Giving some of the roster who don't have anything else to do regular spots is one thing, but just rotating guys in and out on a weekly basis just makes it seem like a side thought. ROH's schedule pre-covid of two shows a month (tv taping and then a bigger event) was a better setup than trying to squeeze the tapings in around AEW shows with a mostly empty building and dead audience.

Agreed. TK/management wants it to be a 'sister promotion' when it's clear the ceiling should be 'developmental.' We've got Claudio as World Champion when it should probably be a Lee Moriarty or Angelico. The rotating cast of AEW regulars should be the guys that fill the building with a big main event, not the guys vying for titles and being involved in week to week stories. Make it a big deal that PAC or whoever is coming to ROH on X date in X city, and hype it for a few weeks.

Edit: I'll say this too, I think the airing/streaming calendar as it stands, sort of necessitates ROH being developmental. 'Pay for the stars of tomorrow' is, IMO, an easier sell than 'Pay for Dark/Elevation, also it's red now.' Would I be singing a different tune if Sinclair's timeslots, or an hour on TruTV were in the conversation? Can't say for sure, but it's likely.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Zakk_Sabbath

[JLowe]

7 hours ago, Casey said:

Crowd burnout, I imagine? They already tape Rampage and ROH after Dynamite and Collision, adding a shit ton of dark matches before each of the main shows is just asking for (even more) trouble. They already have a hard time keeping fans for those tapings most of the time. You’re looking at fans being there for 4-5 hours twice a week through dark matches, live TV and then a show taping afterwards. That’s a lot.

Point blank - ROH isn’t what it once was, and should be a feeder league/developmental for AEW now.

Shit, just let Nick Jackson create an indie fed like he wants but tell him you gotta use some of this green talent AEW has.

True, but when I went to the Austin taping in May (right after things changed), there was a good 15-20% of the crowd there at 6 pm hoping they were still doing an hour of dark matches, and pretty disappointed and restless that we didn't get anything until 6:40. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

1 minute ago, JLowe said:

True, but when I went to the Austin taping in May (right after things changed), there was a good 15-20% of the crowd there at 6 pm hoping they were still doing an hour of dark matches, and pretty disappointed and restless that we didn't get anything until 6:40. 

This is another thing that drives me insane every time we go: ROH or Rampage, MUST be taped before Dynamite/Collision, not after. Anything requiring a 'set-up' on the Dynamite/Collision we're at, should be done via backstage vignette shown only to the home audience. I'd be MORE than happy to get some ROH or Rampage action in before Dynamite - I had a blast getting to see Athena, Bear Country (not calling 'em Ir*n S*vages, sorry) Joe, Aussie Open, and lots more - but I've been to like three shows now where they've kept us in the building until well after midnight. Even for a diehard day-oner like many of us, it's a huge ask. Grand Slam is like a literal 15 hour day for us every year, and I always feel like a giant asshole having to leave while people are trying to perform

[Matt D]

I'm pretty sure that the onset of Collision is the reason they stopped doing House Rules and certainly the Universal tapings for ROH. Every indication is that Collision came as a surprise demand/request from WBD and it impacted a bunch of different things in different ways.

[Craig H]

11 hours ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Gresham burned a bridge for both of them

That's not remotely true.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Just now, Matt D said:

I'm pretty sure that the onset of Collision is the reason they stopped doing House Rules and certainly the Universal tapings for ROH. Every indication is that Collision came as a surprise demand/request from WBD and it impacted a bunch of different things in different ways.

I'll work harder to find a source when I'm not pretending to work (pretty sure it was Dave) but I recall someone posting here that Collision was either going to be a second Rampage hour or a standalone hour on Saturdays, but things changed once Punk was back in the mix - I tend to think that may be true, especially with all the weird 'roster split' talk going on at the time (and my apologies again for clogging EVERY thread with the five steps of grief immediately followed by hypothetical draft talk...)

[Curt McGirt]

Yeah I completely forgot that they already double up the shows and thus would burn everyone out. The ROH house shows deal sounds like the best of all options then, I guess.