August 2023 Wrestling Discussion

[Cobra Commander]

Inspired by watching a 1995 WWF Raw:

if you flipped two 1995 gimmicks and had Fatu as the heel professor and Shane Douglas as “Makin a Difference” Shane Douglas, does either gimmick go better than what they actually tried

[Elsalvajeloco]

As I said in a previously monthly discussion, Makin' a Difference Fatu could have actually worked if they built something into it. My TL:DR idea involved Yokozuna dropping his semi non talking ex sumo gimmick for something more realistic and being the adversary along with Samu. You can just have where Fatu is the babyface who didn't want to use his association with his relative who was WWF champion to get ahead in WWF and get tag team title shots as part of the Headshrinkers. You can also say that all three guys wanted to establish seperate identities from each other. That would explain away the Japanese association and why Samu and Fatu are no longer savages without saying wrestling is fake and everyone is assigned gimmicks. Then, you can also make it where you cover for Yokozuna going to the equivalent of WWF fat camp for months by saying that he had an injury and while he was on the mend he became a street pusher under Samu (which would also explain his absence from WWF) to make ends meet. So there you go. Fatu is the guy who really cares about the community he came from while Samu, Yoko, and the rest of their kin in Bay Area were putting poison out on the streets. It's very 90s after school special, but it fits in with the time.

Dean Douglas...maybe I am jaded cause in my 94 rewatch I just saw Shane Douglas cut another over long Dick Flair promo where it just makes him look super bitter, but the Franchise had limited upside if he couldn't use expletives or HE'S SHOOTING~! comments. It was ahead of it's time, but Shane as a talker wasn't good enough to elevate the Franchise into something that could work in WWF. It's a Catch 22. Dean Douglas stunk as a gimmick, but the Franchise didn't work in the fantasy world of 1995 WWF that's so behind the times and wouldn't have the context of Shane's career of being screwed over earlier in his career. In reality, Shane got multiple chances, quit when things didn't work out to go back to teach, and shit all over the business. Meanwhile, that same year of 1995, you could see in short his ECW stint, Austin had the gift of gab and pure motivation to get whatever he needed to do over. Moreover, Austin as he has said at different times, he had to go to Vince and convince him to do what he had to do to get it over causing he wasn't this big monster in terms of size. 

It was also an issue of Shane not really putting his all into his matches. Say what you will about the Kliq, but Shane's output in the ring in WWF didn't match what he believes himself to be which is to be this master technician. He was good, but not this world class wrestler he pegged himself to be. You saw a lot of the sameness and a lot of this play the hits type ring psychology. No one wanted to watch that in 1995. He was also afraid to attack the mat and bump around, which is kinda excusable since the ring was hard as hell. However, as a heel, that's gonna be tough to make it when that's the overall WWF style at the time. There was a lack of chemistry.

So I dunno what could work for Shane other than a different gimmick altogether and work harder in the ring.

[zendragon]

10 hours ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

Curious to see what people have as the best match shown on a promotion's B or C shows?

Action Zone had that obvious clique tag match from 94. 

Superstars less clear. It had a really good Bret vs Backlund match that started the heel run for Bob. Pat Tanaka vs The 123 Kid from late 93 is a ridiculously good sprint. The sunset flip powerbomb to the floor spot is just ridiculous for 1993. 

Love to hear the nominations for WCW Pro/Worldwide/Saturday Night ..even Thunder.

Thunder is probably Goldberg v Raven

I'd go with Half Time Heat empty arena match just for its uniqueness

Best Shotgun Saturday Night match is probably something like Brian Christopher v Devon Storm

Edited August 18, 2023 by zendragon

[Log]

Didn’t Shotgun have a pretty awesome Stone Cold vs Terry Funk match?

[Guest lounging]

4 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

Inspired by watching a 1995 WWF Raw:

if you flipped two 1995 gimmicks and had Fatu as the heel professor and Shane Douglas as “Makin a Difference” Shane Douglas, does either gimmick go better than what they actually tried

“Making a Difference” Shane Douglas????

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Thunder had a US title match between Bret and Luger in August '98 that was probably way better than it had any right to be.

For Worldwide, this is fresh in my brain from when he passed, but I don't know that anything captures the spirit of the C show more than Bobby Eaton vs Randy Savage

Edited August 18, 2023 by Zakk_Sabbath

[HumanChessgame]

9 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

was Sabu really in WCW for long enough to have any Worldwide/Pro matches end up on TV?

the only Sabu WCW matches on TheHistoryOfWWE that weren't on Nitro/Havoc are from a "TV Taping" in August 1995 where he worked Chris Kanyon twice, so is it possible that you're confusing Devon Storm and Chris Kanyon?

That must have been it. Looking deeper into it I see Storm had a match with Kanyon as well in which he did some impressive high flying stuff a bit ahead of its time

 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

I'd have been down with the Bloodline angle playing out with Yokozuna in the Roman role and the Headshrinkers as the Usos instead of the mess we got in 1993.

Not sure who gets the gig as Sami in this instance though. Jacques Rougeau? Brutus leaves Hogan after KOTR 93 and becomes a lackey of the Samoans instead?

[Elsalvajeloco]

Given how thin the roster is, that probably goes to 1-2-3 Kid especially if it's 1994/1995.

[Godfrey]

Bret Hart joins the Bloodline which explains why Yoko joins the Hart Foundation years later

[Log]

1 hour ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

Not sure who gets the gig as Sami in this instance though. Jacques Rougeau?

You have given me the mental image of Jacques skanking down to the ring, and for that I am eternally thankful to you.

[Elsalvajeloco]

19 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

Bret Hart joins the Bloodline which explains why Yoko joins the Hart Foundation years later

700 pound Yokozuna probably moved better than Pillman with a fused ankle. 

[porksweats]

11 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

was Sabu really in WCW for long enough to have any Worldwide/Pro matches end up on TV?

the only Sabu WCW matches on TheHistoryOfWWE that weren't on Nitro/Havoc are from a "TV Taping" in August 1995 where he worked Chris Kanyon twice, so is it possible that you're confusing Devon Storm and Chris Kanyon?

I think Sabus matches were on Prime.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Semi-off topic, but I have never seen a single episode of Prime in it's entirety. Was Prime Sports even a Turner property, or was this like repackaged stuff from Worldwide, Main Event, and Pro?

[Cobra Commander]

4 hours ago, Guest lounging said:

“Making a Difference” Shane Douglas????

Just imagine the vignettes of Shane playing basketball with at risk youths on the streets of Pittsburgh

[Zakk_Sabbath]

3 hours ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

Not sure who gets the gig as Sami in this instance though. Jacques Rougeau? Brutus leaves Hogan after KOTR 93 and becomes a lackey of the Samoans instead?

 

3 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Given how thin the roster is, that probably goes to 1-2-3 Kid especially if it's 1994/1995.

Owen would have been a great choice for this (and depending when in the year it took place, you might already have that Yoko connection in place?)

[porksweats]

1 hour ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Semi-off topic, but I have never seen a single episode of Prime in it's entirety. Was Prime Sports even a Turner property, or was this like repackaged stuff from Worldwide, Main Event, and Pro?

Prime was it's own provider if I remember correctly and there were definitely Prime Exclusive matches but it's truly D Level stuff.

[Cobra Commander]

Is WCW Prime the least traded 1990s wrestling show or were there D level shows that nobody compulsively taped because it was one exclusive match and Charlie Minn doing wraparounds of what happened on all the other recent WWF shows?

[porksweats]

4 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

Is WCW Prime the least traded 1990s wrestling show or were there D level shows that nobody compulsively taped because it was one exclusive match and Charlie Minn doing wraparounds of what happened on all the other recent WWF shows?

Monsoon Classic on YouTube has uploaded quite a few of those Prime Cuts

[BobbyWhioux]

1 hour ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

 

Owen would have been a great choice for this (and depending when in the year it took place, you might already have that Yoko connection in place?)

Owen's the best choice for pre-tracing Sami's footsteps but Jacques is on my all time comedic wrestler list so now that he's been invoked I'll not settle for anyone else

[BobbyWhioux]

3 hours ago, Log said:

You have given me the mental image of Jacques skanking down to the ring, and for that I am eternally thankful to you.

not too far off from Memphis reality!
 

 

[Dolfan in NYC]

12 hours ago, username said:

I think NXT was hurt by covid causing the house show loop equivalent they had going on getting dropped for years (is it even back now?), that was how a lot of the trainee-level people there were getting their reps.

Have they ever addressed this since the pandemic restrictions were lifted?  At this point, it would help so much to not see the same idiots cheering for Chase U any more.  

[Ramo2653]

On 8/17/2023 at 9:02 AM, Log said:

Evans was never very good. I think that's the main issue.

She got decent (Liv, Nattie, Shotzi tier) by the end of her run but the stop start stuff didn't let her really show it off. She had awful presentation the entire time she was on the main roster and didn't have the ability to over come it compared to other people on the roster. I think one of the benefits of getting called up is that there's so many talented folks on the roster is that you'll most likely get to a decent level eventually. 

21 hours ago, caley said:

I still maintain Dana Brooke could have worked out but her NXT stay was way too short. She was a heat magnet with that weird armpit rubbing flex she did and she's obviously ridiculously athletic (that flip thing she does (did?) in her entrance was super impressive). But she was just starting to lean into a muscular heel bully role in NXT and get a little less clumsy in the ring when they nonsensically rushed her to Raw to be Alexa Bliss's muscle. This was set up to fail as Brooke wasn't experienced enough or noteworthy enough to be seen as a big deal. Coupled with the fact that women like Charlotte and Nia Jax dwarfed her which kinda negated the muscle part. I thinking she'd been given another 6 months or so in NXT she might have turned out well. 

Didn't Dana get called up as Charlotte's good? Mickie James' 2nd run started as Alexa's backup.

They did start the Coconut loop back for NXT. They shoot angles at the events to set up stuff on NXT sometimes. 

[Infinit]

Worldwide had a TON of great matches in the 80s. The Magnum vs Wahoo cage match for the US title. Rock n Roll vs The Russians. Flair vs Windham. Midnights vs Fantastics.

[odessasteps]

Worldwide in the 80s was the A show, especially for folks who didn't get TBS yet. 

Eventually, too many "we gotta go, Tony" non finishes.