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June 2021 Wrestling Discussion


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Posted (edited)

I always loved Bret's lame dad insults during his "I hate America" run.

"You know why they call you Stone Cold? Because your stones are so cold you won't come out here!"

"Do you have the jam to come out and face me?!"

They sounded like stuff your 55 year old next door neighbor would say to an asshole neighbor but even though they were lame, you believed them because the guy used to be in the Marines or something and still sorta keeps in shape and is just too polite to curse. "Oh geez, Ol' Man Wiskowki just said 'jam' and called the other guy a 'nogoodnik', it's on now!"

Edited by cwoy2j
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I have two questions for you fine folks here. First, does anyone know how I go about submitting match listings to wrestlingdata.com? I've contacted them three times and never receive a response. I'm writing a book and going through newspapers and I'm documenting dozens of listings not in the database.

Secondly, anyone know why the WWF belt changed colors a ton during Warrior's reign as champion in 1990? I did read in an Observer about them tinkering with Warrior's appearance after it was clear he wasn't drawing. Was that part of it, does anyone know?

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21 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

OMG they're running an escort service.

Damn, that’s one way to leverage their IP in a different space.  And we all thought WWE trying to branch out meant making movies.  
 

I’ve seen wrestling go from Ron Garvin to Fred Garvin in my lifetime.  

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1 hour ago, RIPPA said:

Allegiant Stadium in Las Vegas (the Raiders stadium) has officially been announced as the site of Summerslam

On a Saturday, no less. I wonder if any Indie shows try to 'Mania week' it and run Friday/ Sunday? You'd think GCW would try something with Mox, considering he lives there and all.

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2 minutes ago, AxB said:

On a Saturday, no less. I wonder if any Indie shows try to 'Mania week' it and run Friday/ Sunday? You'd think GCW would try something with Mox, considering he lives there and all.

There has to be some shows on Friday at least. Gcw had an august 21 date with no location announced, when it was assumed summerslam would be august 22. But the companies that ran mania week this year took a bath except for one or two like gcw I think. If this doesn’t have a super strong advance I don’t know if companies want to risk it. When I first heard stadium, Vegas, august I was like oh man this will be a huge coming out party. I have no idea why they’re only doing one night in Vegas, I really can’t see tens of thousands flying in for that. Hope I’m wrong though. 

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Didn't they used to do NXT Takeovers the night before big 4 PPVs? When did that end?

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Just now, AxB said:

Didn't they used to do NXT Takeovers the night before big 4 PPVs? When did that end?

Maybe it was wrestlemania week since it was two nights and Friday was smackdown? It was recent. They’re doing smackdown in Phoenix and a house show Sunday in Denver which seems weird, then raw in San Diego. It’s like they made no attempt to wrestlemania week it. Just because T-Mobile wasn’t available on Saturday? Seems weird to me, and I don’t think it will draw as well as they seem to think. 

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Isn't the thing with running shows in Vegas, is that it's a City that lots of people come to visit for the weekend? So you're looking to draw from them, rather than from the people who actually live there?

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1 minute ago, AxB said:

Isn't the thing with running shows in Vegas, is that it's a City that lots of people come to visit for the weekend? So you're looking to draw from them, rather than from the people who actually live there?

It is, but as Dave says wrestling has historically done poorly there. Wrestlemania 9 couldn’t sell out a 16k venue. People go there and watch shows, but I don’t see any non or minor wrestling fans spending one of their two evenings at summerslam. They’re going to have to rely on wrestling fans deciding to make that a destination vacation like they would for any mania. Vegas is attractive, we’ll see. I’m thinking now my 20k is probably too low, but I’m just not seeing tens of thousands of wrestling fans making the trip just for one show, even though it’s Vegas and things are getting back to normal and we’re all wanting to get back to our normal lives. 

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The first Double or Nothing drew 11000 people in Vegas (and sold out in 30 minutes). Although that was kind of a special case, and it did draw people from all over the world.

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4 minutes ago, AxB said:

The first Double or Nothing drew 11000 people in Vegas (and sold out in 30 minutes). Although that was kind of a special case, and it did draw people from all over the world.

That was gonna happen anywhere they did the show. The second double or nothing was only at about 9k before it was cancelled due to the pandemic. 

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12 hours ago, notoriusvig said:

 

Secondly, anyone know why the WWF belt changed colors a ton during Warrior's reign as champion in 1990? I did read in an Observer about them tinkering with Warrior's appearance after it was clear he wasn't drawing. Was that part of it, does anyone know?

I've heard he kept loosing them so they had to make new ones

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, zendragon said:

I've heard he kept loosing them so they had to make new ones

If that was the case, on top of fact that his reign didn't draw particularly well, no wonder Vince didn't run with him on top for too long. I just figured he was a colorful character with tassels and neon colored trunks and they (he?) wanted the title to reflect that, as well.

...And while I cannot corroborate that this is actually how the talking to went, but I hope Vince got on Warrior's case like so: "James Warrior Hellwig! That was the fourth bel...I mean championship this month! Do you understand that that is 5 to 10% of the gate each time you lose one of them! That's 5 to 10% more people we need to draw in order to make money or break even, which seems to be harder for you to do than I expected. Which is what I can say about taking good care of these damned expensive championships we keep making for you! Goddammit, pal, we'll start making the straps on the damn things brightly coloured so maybe they become less easy to lose sight of, you son of a bitch!"

Edited by Shartnado
Maybe this is what happened?
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Anyone know why Allegiant Stadium management won't rent the building to WWE on Sunday the 22nd?  Meltzer says WWE wanted to run on Sunday, but were told no by the stadium.  Dave thought it was probably something to do with the Raiders but they play a preseason game out of town on Saturday night so probably not.

 

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1 hour ago, Tarheel Moneghetti said:

Anyone know why Allegiant Stadium management won't rent the building to WWE on Sunday the 22nd?  Meltzer says WWE wanted to run on Sunday, but were told no by the stadium.  Dave thought it was probably something to do with the Raiders but they play a preseason game out of town on Saturday night so probably not.

 

Maybe they're conducting a new toilet test that day.

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In this talk about WWE wanting to focus on bigger talent, it dawned on me just how many members of AEW’s hoss division were under WWE control at some point in time. Now I appreciate that’s an “AEW size” hoss list rather than a “WWE size” one (e.g. Brian Cage being 6’0), but WWE had control of

Cage, Miro, Archer, Luchasaurus, Hager, Lee (RIP)

At some point in time, and either didn’t develop or didn’t promote them for shit. 

Not every guy on that list is a big time talent of course, but several of them are. It will be interesting to see how AEW continues to develop guys like Wardlow and Hobbs. 

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Out of all the hosses the WWE had, the mistreatment of Rusev/Miro and Harper/Lee was the most perplexing. Vince is weird. When he doesn't see something in someone it doesn't matter how good they might be. They just won't be "it" in his eyes.

 

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With the talk of WWE going back to the big guy signings, my instinct is that it won’t work as the core audience simply doesn’t really want that. I feel like the modern fan tends to be a lot smarter (for a lack of a better term) than even 10 years ago and there’s a certain expectation of good wrestling (again definitions on this may vary). It seems to me that WWE going this route would just turn more of their current audience away and is another example of contempt for their audience rather than trying to cater to them (and the fans who’ve been tuning out).

But I think it’s an interesting topic, similar to the WWE as Marvel talk in the purge thread. Is this just another Vince whim or is this driven more by the likes of Khan and the real business guys? Like is there a business model for this? Is there an example out there (in wrestling, sports, entertainment of whatever) where a company has pretty much actively turned off their existing fan base while successfully expanding by picking up a new audience?

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10 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Look at how long it took Vince to “get” Foley. It wasnt until he did those sit diown interviews with Ross. 

To be fair, that was under 2 years into Foley’s run. Miro and Lee were both around longer than Foley (not including his various comebacks).

Im not making any particular point here, but it’s interesting to think how some of the modern guys who we still think of as ‘new’ have had far longer runs than some of the legendary runs from the past.

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Posted (edited)

Hager/Swagger wasn’t really a miss.  Vince put the world title on him and gave him several chances to succeed. Combination of attitude and inability to stay out of trouble did him in.

Never been sure what to make of Brodie Lee.  I don’t feel like he was a miss, but other people rate him a lot higher then I do.  Don’t think he would have ever been signed in the first place if he had been shorter.

Edited by Tarheel Moneghetti
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I don’t think there’s much rhyme or reason to the size thing. Vince likes money and he likes guys that make him money, whether it’s Daniel Bryan or Andre.  The main thing is to stick to Vince’s ever shifting rules for continual employment in the WWE.

If your being a pain in his ass, you’re done.

If he finds something he dislikes about you, be it personality, accent, tattoos, you’re done.

If you try to get over doing something he dislikes, you’re done.

If you piss off one of his ‘inner circle’, you’re done.

If you sneeze within a hundred feet of him, done.

It’s an interesting case study for sure.

 

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