The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries

[Curt McGirt]

58 minutes ago, hammerva said:

Also if the first show is an indication, I expect we will see more of Bischoff and probably others bitch about "online wrestling media".   I am sure there is a Meltzer rant somewhere in this show.    

I think this show starting with making online wrestling fans fake-complaining (or they could have dug up real quotes) means the show is pretty much predicated on it. (Someone's online handle being "bullshit" is telling.) I'm sure we will get lots of different opinions but that's a pretty specific thing to point out immediately. It won't be nice or fair, anyway.

[SirSmUgly]

30 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Oh, WCW failed because you couldn't call women bitches or run Beaver Cleavage gimmicks?  Do tell.

I mean, if only WCW could have booked Scott Steiner to stalk women and call them hoochies or put Stacy Keibler up on a table to dance in a short skirt. Then they would have been able to compete! 

But that stuff never happened thanks to S&P. 

[Log]

"Fall of WCW" is up there with Montreal for things I just don't want to hear about anymore. It's been done to death. Are there really going to be any new insights from this series?

[Mister TV]

2 hours ago, Technico Support said:

YES.  You know what executives like?  Making money.  Execs loved WCW when it was hot and making money.  The same execs wanted it to go...when it became a low-rated money pit.  This is an oversimplification but still, what killed WCW was anything that led to the on-screen product being shit and losing eyeballs.  Once that happened, execs couldn't tolerate WCW anymore. 

Blaming standards and practices is bullshit, too.  Oh, WCW failed because you couldn't call women bitches or run Beaver Cleavage gimmicks?  Do tell.

Not really an oversimplification since that's pretty much how capitalism works.
 

I really hope it mentions what a complete pain in the ass WCW was for the Turner people who had to deal with a lot of the day to day stuff, your either dealing with the carniest of carnies or unrepentant racists who piss out their office window.

 

Edited June 6, 2024 by Mister TV

[SirSmUgly]

1 hour ago, Log said:

"Fall of WCW" is up there with Montreal for things I just don't want to hear about anymore. It's been done to death. Are there really going to be any new insights from this series?

They got Guy Evans to be a talking head and a few of the Turner execs who were interviewed for Evans's book, and that book had useful info in it, so I think for the many viewers who didn't read Evans's book, the answer is that there will be new insights. 

[Cobra Commander]

There was a certain amount of money being moved around the Turner empire that makes discerning profits and losses harder, right?

like in some of the best years, they were making a profit because some of their expenses were in another part of the company. And in some of the bad years, the successes weren’t under their name but a lot of losses were

[Mister TV]

21 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

There was a certain amount of money being moved around the Turner empire that makes discerning profits and losses harder, right?

like in some of the best years, they were making a profit because some of their expenses were in another part of the company. And in some of the bad years, the successes weren’t under their name but a lot of losses were

Don't all big companies with tons of divisions and subsidiaries do that kind of thing? You can't blame "accounting" for all the money they lost the last few years, they had crazy expenses, low ad revenue, low ppv buy rates and low live gate revenue, sure those numbers could be moved around but the people high up making decisions are seeing the real numbers and those numbers were really bad.

[Craig H]

I think what pisses me off the most is that is that Bischoff, every week, incessantly, talks about how wrestling shows to be successful need storylines with a three act structure. And how having matches for the sake of having good matches is dumb.

Oh? Do tell! Exactly what fucking storylines did Bischoff structure a 3 act storyline around in WCW or TNA? Maybe they did that once? Twice? WCW weekly was a total shitshow. The one thing they had was nWo doing something nutty and Schiavone going WE’RE OUT OF TIME! None of that is a three act storyline. He’s so full of bullshit that it’s all he is. And there were never random ass matches thrown together on Nitro just for the sake of having good matches? There were hardly any storylines for the lucha guys. They were there to present something exciting and different than what WWF was showing.

So when I see him continuously get air time on these things talking like an expert that really lucked into having a southern money mark give him a ton of money for Hogan and Nitro and everything else and completely ignore how WCW had nothing that he constantly preaches about is so frustrating. Dude is the Dr. Oz of wrestling.

[Technico Support]

2 hours ago, Craig H said:

Oh? Do tell! Exactly what fucking storylines did Bischoff structure a 3 act storyline around in WCW or TNA?

Oh yeah, Sting feeling slighted by his friends so he sat on the sidelines forever, then attacking the baddies vigilante-style for months, then getting his "revenge" in the most unsatisfying fashion imaginable, THEN being stripped of the title like a week later?  That's some real Joseph Campbell shit there.

Edited June 6, 2024 by Technico Support

[odessasteps]

4 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

There was a certain amount of money being moved around the Turner empire that makes discerning profits and losses harder, right?

like in some of the best years, they were making a profit because some of their expenses were in another part of the company. And in some of the bad years, the successes weren’t under their name but a lot of losses were

Yes. Things like Turmer Home Entertainment getting $ instead of WCW. 
 

From the start, Turner people didn’t want or like wrestling. It lucked into a couple good years  and when that ended, they went back to wanting it gone, 

[Curt McGirt]

The entire cruiserweight division was nothing but good matches for their sake. There were two stories up until LWO and that was Dean vs. Jericho and Chavo Is Crazy.

[BloodyChamp]

It’s a shame because for that just over a year period of time that the luchas did have storylines, it was 2 straight hours of fun every Monday. Mike Tenay as the lucha guy, the cruiserweight title being treated like the Holy Grail, the lucha rules matches that were treated like such a big deal, etc. La Parka the Chairman of WCW was the best fun type of midcarder for a hot minute. 

WCW’s accounting junk has been discussed many times. All big companies do it yes. Heck I kinda do it lol! I don’t care what some accounting book says. Seats went empty in the arenas, ratings went down and buyrates went down. And that’s just the basics. They had all those guaranteed contracts and more and more guys just up and taking time off and just all kinds of nightmares. None of that is the real question though like we’ve said. 

[BloodyChamp]

This about sums it up if I had to explain it without mentioning Hogan 

 

[zendragon]

On 6/5/2024 at 2:57 PM, Curt McGirt said:

I always had the feeling Konnan would be cool in real life but the only thing good he ever did in wrestling was manage LAX.

He was also Mickey to Prince Puma's Rocky 

This was a pretty fun first episode. I've read everyone book on the subject (Death of WCW, Nitro, Controversy creates cash) but I'm still interested

Edited June 9, 2024 by zendragon

[Cobra Commander]

1990s Kimberly looking amazing in the screenshot they're using for the YouTube upload of Episode 1.

[Cleavy]

On 6/6/2024 at 7:57 AM, Curt McGirt said:

I always had the feeling Konnan would be cool in real life but the only thing good he ever did in wrestling was manage LAX.

he gave us that rap video, which led to the Disco Inferno parody.  possibly the high point of both their careers.

[Curt McGirt]

I have seen neither. Please provide!

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

I have seen neither. Please provide!

Wait wait...you haven't seen Oil of Olay all day, everyday?!

[Curt McGirt]

...no. If you asked me what that is without context I would be baffled.

[Elsalvajeloco]

14 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

...no. If you asked me what that is without context I would be baffled.

We've had this discussion a few times. This is one I could find.

https://deathvalleydriver.com/forum/index.php?/topic/10115-november-2022-wrestling-discussion/&do=findComment&comment=1260266

Said parody:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDSUD0by7x0

AFAIK it's not on the network version of the Nitro episode it's from. 

[Curt McGirt]

Mmmm. I see. 

That's... not very funny

[odessasteps]

It needs to be viewed:

In context 

And having read CRZ's recap of it. 

Edited June 10, 2024 by odessasteps

[Elsalvajeloco]

Something I totally forgot is there was a SECOND NWO parody of the Four Horseman right around the time of this Disco Konnan parody. Now you wanna talk about painfully unfunny....that's on a whole different level cause it went on forever. 

[SirSmUgly]

1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

It needs to be viewed:

In context 

And having read CRZ's recap of it. 

Disco being openly confused by everything Konnan's been saying for the six months leading up to the OIL OF OLAY video really is what drives the joke home. 

[clintthecrippler]

14 hours ago, Cleavy said:

he gave us that rap video, which led to the Disco Inferno parody.  possibly the high point of both their careers.

I would say the second highest point of Disco's career was beating Manabu Nakanishi after the disco music started playing during the match, Nakanishi got distracted by a Fat Elvis impersonator disco dancing down to the ring, and a disco ball came down from the ceiling and Disco knocked out Nakanishi after swing the disco ball at him.

And third highest point was when Craig Pittman went to put a Kimura armlock on him and Disco tapped out before it was fully applied because if Craig Pittman locked it in, Disco couldn't wave his hands in the air while dancing and run his hands through his hair anymore.

Disco had his moments. Dude still deserved to get cooked by Cody and has nothing to offer as far as advice that should be followed in 2024 by anyone in wrestling.