Game of Thrones Maesters Thread

[supremebve]

You tend to overstate how "impenetrable" some places are, supreme.

We're sitting here in 2015 with technology and weaponry so advanced it would seem like magic to the people of Westeros, and there is still not a nation in the world that can 100% - and not even close to 100% - account for the security of its borders, and yet you'd have us believe that two people couldn't sneak through Dorne or around Moat Cailin.

Come on, man.

So you're telling me that people with absolutely no knowledge of the terrain of two very remote places would just waltz into these places safely and securely, without being noticed or have any trouble?  Even with all of our 2015 technology could anyone reading this find their way through the bayous or Louisiana or through the Sahara desert?  These places were specifically written to be incredibly dificult to navigate through, and they've decided to have characters have no issue getting through them.  These people don't have any maps, can't stop for directions, or have any experience navigating that type of terrain.  Jaime and Bronn would probably die in the desert.  If they somehow survive, Jaime is most likely the most famous man in Westeros and would be spotted and killed as soon as he entered the Water Gardens.  Brienne and Pod are southerners who have never been anywhere close to the Neck.  Here is how the Neck is describedA dozen streams drain the wetwood, all shallow, silty, and uncharted. I would not even call them rivers. The channels are ever drifting and changing. There are endless sandbars, deadfalls, and tangles of rotting trees. And Greywater Watch moves."  Brienne and Pod would get lost and eaten by aligators.  It isn't that these places are impenetrable, they are just impenetrable to people who clearly have no fucking clue what they're doing.

[Jrag]

"The Dwarf lives until we find a cock merchant."

 

Ya'll need to embrace the campy moments of this show.  We are wrestling fans after all..

[Playa Shunna Ver 3.0]

So again, my memory of the books is always a bit foggy.  Did they completely role reverse the Margery/Cersie roles from the books?  I was really looking forward to Cersie getting got, and I dont remember any of this with Margery.  

[Brian Fowler]

Nah, Margery was arrested first, Cersei had someone claim he slept with her.

He confessed his kites under torture, hence Cersei being arrested.

Details have changed, not results here

[supremebve]

So again, my memory of the books is always a bit foggy.  Did they completely role reverse the Margery/Cersie roles from the books?  I was really looking forward to Cersie getting got, and I dont remember any of this with Margery.  

Never forget that Cersei is an incest loving, fornicating, treasonous, adulterer...and Lancel has essentially said that he has confessed his sins. 

[Brian Fowler]

Oh yeah, this is definitely still leading to her being hoisted by her own petard.

I love the post in the unsullied thread about her going over everyone, because she's so clearly going down hard soon.

[WholeFnMachine]

My wife, who has not read the books, turned to me begging to know if Cersei ever gets her comeuppance. I wouldn't tell her, also, with the way that they keep changing things, I don't want to get her hopes up. 

 

Also, as horrifying as we both found the Ramsey rape scene, apparently Sophie Turner didn't mind:

 

http://jezebel.com/sophie-turner-loved-filming-sansas-game-of-thrones-wedd-1705193780

[Raziel]

Yeah, I figure its about 1 more week until we get the ol High Sparrow swinging back by with the "Oh, Your Grace, by the way, Brother Lancel told us some interesting things about you." and Cersei realizes how badly she fucked up rearming the Faith Militant.

 

Looks like next week we're getting the setup to Jon's stabbing, and Episode 9 will be that mixed with Stannis over Roose via Brienne-ference.

 

And man, is show Sansa getting shit on more than book Sansa ever did.

[Brian Fowler]

It was horrific, but at least this rape was meant to be horrific.

[MarcosLoura]

I might be the only one, but I really enjoyed Jamie seizing the Riverlands* in the books.

*As mentioned, my memory of details is slipping badly 4 years after I read them, so if it wasn't the Riverlands, insert the correct location there.

 

Jaime's Riverland stuff is great, here's why:

- He learns leadership and diplomacy and stops being just that guy who fights good.

- Distances himself from Cersei's toxic influence and stops being dependant on her affection.

 

 

BTW

[Raziel]

We're also never going to get the awesome Jamie/Edmure scene where Jamie convinces Edmure to surrender the Riverlands formally just by having a bard play "Rains of Castamere" in the room with them.

[supremebve]

 

I might be the only one, but I really enjoyed Jamie seizing the Riverlands* in the books.

*As mentioned, my memory of details is slipping badly 4 years after I read them, so if it wasn't the Riverlands, insert the correct location there.

 

Jaime's Riverland stuff is great, here's why:

- He learns leadership and diplomacy and stops being just that guy who fights good.

- Distances himself from Cersei's toxic influence and stops being dependant on her affection.

 

 

BTW

 

If you ever reread, pay attention to everyone in the background...far more interesting than I knew the first time.

[odessasteps]

I hope this is not the episode Maisie Williams and Sophie Turner do the commentary for on the box set.

[MarcosLoura]

 

Come ate me bros!

[Jrag]

I was clearly too stoned and all of the twirling threw me off! LOL ok the sandsnakes kind of suck, but that fight scene was still worth it for Jaime using his gold arm as a shield. And the bit with Jaime and Hotah at the end was obviously badass.

Edit: I still don't see the problem with Jaime going in without a plan. This dude pushes kids out of windows and jumps into bear pits with one arm.

[Raziel]

Yeah, they really screwed the pooch with the way they cut down all the Dorne stuff.  I'm just not digging the non-Tyrion changes.

[Hail Sabin]

I hope this is not the episode Maisie Williams and Sophie Turner do the commentary for on the box set.

Odds are last night's episode won't have commentary when the Blu-Ray comes out like last season with the episode that had the Jamie/Cersei scene.

 

[bink_winkleman]

Sophie is on record saying that she "loves" the scene in a EW interview. 

 

Benioff and Weiss are getting exposed the further off course from the book they go.  This is the first time I've really been concerned about the show.  I mean, I'm sure this season will pan out okay, but I'm not sure if they can keep it up for two more.

[AxB]

We're also never going to get the awesome Jamie/Edmure scene where Jamie convinces Edmure to surrender the Riverlands formally just by having a bard play "Rains of Castamere" in the room with them.

 

The Bard in question being Tom O'Sevens, Stoneheart's spy in Jaime's camp. Which is how she 'knows' that Jaime has broken his vow to never again take up arms against House Tully ('Maybe I'll send your son to you. With a Trebuchet' - even though we know that was an idle threat on Jaime's part). Also Tom O'Sevens is the bard who made Edmure hate bards by stealing his wench years earlier.

[Brian Fowler]

We're also never going to get the awesome Jamie/Edmure scene where Jamie convinces Edmure to surrender the Riverlands formally just by having a bard play "Rains of Castamere" in the room with them.

The Bard in question being Tom O'Sevens, Stoneheart's spy in Jaime's camp. Which is how she 'knows' that Jaime has broken his vow to never again take up arms against House Tully ('Maybe I'll send your son to you. With a Trebuchet' - even though we know that was an idle threat on Jaime's part). Also Tom O'Sevens is the bard who made Edmure hate bards by stealing his wench years earlier.

See? I basically remember none of that.

I should reread them, but then I'll get back to that desperately waiting for book six thing.

[AxB]

Well, I've been desperately waiting for an excuse to use the word Wench for years, and I just got to, so the book is clearly on it's way.

[BobbyWhioux]

Sophie is on record saying that she "loves" the scene in a EW interview. 

 

Benioff and Weiss are getting exposed the further off course from the book they go.  This is the first time I've really been concerned about the show.  I mean, I'm sure this season will pan out okay, but I'm not sure if they can keep it up for two more.

 

Season 6 will be saved by The White Walkers finally arriving to kick ass and take names.

 

(Book 6 will be similarly carried).

 

I'm pretty sure Season 5 will remain (and be remembered as) the nadir of this show's run.

[EVA]

You tend to overstate how "impenetrable" some places are, supreme.

We're sitting here in 2015 with technology and weaponry so advanced it would seem like magic to the people of Westeros, and there is still not a nation in the world that can 100% - and not even close to 100% - account for the security of its borders, and yet you'd have us believe that two people couldn't sneak through Dorne or around Moat Cailin.

Come on, man.

So you're telling me that people with absolutely no knowledge of the terrain of two very remote places would just waltz into these places safely and securely, without being noticed or have any trouble?  Even with all of our 2015 technology could anyone reading this find their way through the bayous or Louisiana or through the Sahara desert?  These places were specifically written to be incredibly dificult to navigate through, and they've decided to have characters have no issue getting through them.  These people don't have any maps, can't stop for directions, or have any experience navigating that type of terrain.  Jaime and Bronn would probably die in the desert.  If they somehow survive, Jaime is most likely the most famous man in Westeros and would be spotted and killed as soon as he entered the Water Gardens.  Brienne and Pod are southerners who have never been anywhere close to the Neck.  Here is how the Neck is describedA dozen streams drain the wetwood, all shallow, silty, and uncharted. I would not even call them rivers. The channels are ever drifting and changing. There are endless sandbars, deadfalls, and tangles of rotting trees. And Greywater Watch moves."  Brienne and Pod would get lost and eaten by aligators.  It isn't that these places are impenetrable, they are just impenetrable to people who clearly have no fucking clue what they're doing.

Do you realize how many assumptions you made in that block of text?

[supremebve]

 

 

You tend to overstate how "impenetrable" some places are, supreme.

We're sitting here in 2015 with technology and weaponry so advanced it would seem like magic to the people of Westeros, and there is still not a nation in the world that can 100% - and not even close to 100% - account for the security of its borders, and yet you'd have us believe that two people couldn't sneak through Dorne or around Moat Cailin.

Come on, man.

So you're telling me that people with absolutely no knowledge of the terrain of two very remote places would just waltz into these places safely and securely, without being noticed or have any trouble?  Even with all of our 2015 technology could anyone reading this find their way through the bayous or Louisiana or through the Sahara desert?  These places were specifically written to be incredibly dificult to navigate through, and they've decided to have characters have no issue getting through them.  These people don't have any maps, can't stop for directions, or have any experience navigating that type of terrain.  Jaime and Bronn would probably die in the desert.  If they somehow survive, Jaime is most likely the most famous man in Westeros and would be spotted and killed as soon as he entered the Water Gardens.  Brienne and Pod are southerners who have never been anywhere close to the Neck.  Here is how the Neck is describedA dozen streams drain the wetwood, all shallow, silty, and uncharted. I would not even call them rivers. The channels are ever drifting and changing. There are endless sandbars, deadfalls, and tangles of rotting trees. And Greywater Watch moves."  Brienne and Pod would get lost and eaten by aligators.  It isn't that these places are impenetrable, they are just impenetrable to people who clearly have no fucking clue what they're doing.

Do you realize how many assumptions you made in that block of text?

 

Yes, I realize that everything that isn't actually shown in the books or the text is essentially an assumption, but I'm using the information that I was given to make these assumptions.  My point is that these are places that have been written in the books and the show to be remote and dificult to navigate.  The fact that they are disregarding the foundation that they've laid down makes the world less rich and pulls me out of the show.  The reason Dorne is so interesting is because they can strike against Kings Landing with the knowledge that they are protected by their location.  There is a reason they told us that the Targaryens and their dragons couldn't take over Dorne, it is because it matters.  There is a reason they told us that Moat Cailin was the only way to get through the Neck over land, because it matters.  The Ironborn and the Boltons have told us that Moat Cailin was important, because it is basically the gateway that separates north and south.  Robb Stark was defeated as soon as the Ironborn took Moat Cailin, because once it was taken the entire North was lost.  His army was stranded in enemy territory as long as the Ironborn held it, and any reinforcements he could call were all on the other side.  Disregarding those things doesn't make sense, because they are the ones that told us they mattered.  So when I make assumptions about what would happen if those characters tried to get through those areas, it is because they told me that they couldn't just waltz through those areas.

[Raziel]

I know it can change, but the more I go over events, yeah, the more the whole changes are just bad.  

 

 

When they first announced the show, I was talking to a friend of mine that read the books as well, and she was sure "They'll fuck it up somehow".  Then we got all exicted the first season when they kept to the books and it was awesome.  Then this season rolls around, and they change a whole lot of stuff.  Now, 5 years after the fact, I called her up and said "Yup, you were right."