Life Events Thread

[piranesi]

52 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

I've read from several outlets that it's incredibly unlikely that the Affordable Care Act is completely repealed without at least something left in its place. Whatever that something is, who fucking knows...

But there's the problem.  The mandate is what made it possible to get rid of pre-existing conditions policies.  The subsidies are what made the mandate possible. The taxes are what made the subsidies possible.

If you keep all those things you're keeping the ACA. If you get rid of anyone of them you get rid of all of them.

[OSJ]

Okay, a bunch of my friends are crying that "Bernie could've energized the base!" Yes, and he would have energized the opposition even more. Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of Bernie's ideas, but I also am very uncomfortable having someone of that age in the Oval Office. I remember all too well how Reagan went from the "Great Communicator" to not knowing what day it was seemingly overnight.  The bottom line is that due to personal tragedy, the best candidate did not run. Yeah, I know that Joe Biden is only a few years younger than Bernie Sanders, but there is no doubt in my mind that he would have won in a landslide. The Dems forgot the lesson of George W. and his likability. People don't like Hillary even if they think she's the most qualified, even those most opposed to his policies have nothing bad to say about Joe Biden

[Ryan]

I'll be 35 next year, vote for me in 2020! I have no clue what I'm doing, but I can't be any worse than Carter. History's Greatest Monster A/K/A a war hero who was dealt a pile of shit and had no chance in hell and has mostly been a beacon of hope and good since then. And he's a born again Christian whom I generally disdain on principle. Go figure.

[OSJ]

One of the worst POTUS of my lifetime and without question the greatest former POTUS ever... It seems odd to say that a man of his age wasn't mature enough to be POTUS, but that sure seems to have been the case with Carter. An intolerant scold who talked down to practically everyone and only paid attention to his long-time pals from Georgia. A truly awful leader who after four years came out the other side a truly great humanitarian. Our world is a better place for having been graced with Jimmy Carter.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I think many of the rust belt former dems would have voted for Bernie.  There were many reports saying that Bernie supporters and Trump supporters are sometimes the same people. I didn't know whether to believe that or not but the more I looked into it, I feel that's probably true at least in the rust belt.

Bernie beat Clinton in Michigan and Wisconsin.  Those were open primaries. He lost to her in Pennsylvania but I believe that was closed. Bernie was always the most popular candidate with independents. 

I think Bernie focusses his time on the rust belt and fares better there.  The thing you have to look at is Bernie wouldn't have lost the states where Hillary won. He would have easily won in the northeast, out west and I firmly believe that Colorado, New Mexico and Nevada are all solid blue now.  Virginia is arguable.  Bernie might have even taken Iowa.

That's just my opinion.  I think Bernie would have protected the firewall in the north and that's all that needed to be done. 

Of course, I think Biden would have done even better but that's another story. I think Biden would have played extremely well with working class whites in Michigan and Ohio and PA as he had always done. I think Biden would have won in a landslide.

End of the day, Clinton still won the popular vote and I think Trump and his band of loonies that he recruits for his cabinet need to pay attention to that.

[Burgundy LaRue]

44 minutes ago, OSJ said:

Okay, a bunch of my friends are crying that "Bernie could've energized the base!" Yes, and he would have energized the opposition even more. Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of Bernie's ideas, but I also am very uncomfortable having someone of that age in the Oval Office. I remember all too well how Reagan went from the "Great Communicator" to not knowing what day it was seemingly overnight.  The bottom line is that due to personal tragedy, the best candidate did not run. Yeah, I know that Joe Biden is only a few years younger than Bernie Sanders, but there is no doubt in my mind that he would have won in a landslide. The Dems forgot the lesson of George W. and his likability. People don't like Hillary even if they think she's the most qualified, even those most opposed to his policies have nothing bad to say about Joe Biden.

That's the name of the game in national politics:  be insanely likeable (GWB, Biden), have charisma pouring out of your ears (Bill Clinton), or be a once-in-a-generation rock star supernova (Obama).  Hillary has none of those qualities in great supply.  Trump has just enough charm to weasel his way in.

To be fair, Hillary did pull in the popular vote.  So maybe I'm underestimating how she plays to an audience.  She just can't count to 270.  Yeesh.

My mother has the opinion that Carter was too good of a person to be President.  I hadn't thought about either way. But maybe the maternal parent was on to something, considering what wonderful work the Carters have done since leaving Washington.

[(BP)]

Hillary had a lot of problems beside sexism going against her, but would this country really embrace a populist female candidate? I can't imagine the majority reacting well to a woman who carried herself like Trump or Bernie. Of course the counter to that is that people felt Hillary was too cold...ugh I don't know. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

Also, Republicans almost never win the popular vote anymore. Bush had it over Kerry in 2004 but I mean that's Kerry..  we were at war and Kerry's not the guy who was going to excite anyone. Clinton won the popular in both '92 and '96 pretty easily. Gore had 500,000 more votes than GWB. Obama destroyed his comp in '08 and '12.  Clinton beat Trump in the popular two days ago.

I'm not saying throw out the electoral college but something is up here. A majority of the country is liberal-leaning but too many? liberals live in S.F., Chicago, New York, L.A., Seattle, Philly and not enough in fly over states.

[JohnnyJ]

i can't think of a good argument for why the public should just sit back and accept that the candidate who had the most votes doesn't become president. Does the argument go beyond, "sorry, we created an imperfect system and need to have a leader with legitimacy, sucks to be you?"

the president elect even agrees:

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266038556504494082?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

 

 

 

[lurkerbelow]

Hi there. I never post here (as my name implies, I'm a lurker), but with the demagoguery of some certain posters (such as Techico Support and others) ventingly cursing "hicks" and "rednecks" for getting Trump elected, other posters (such as (BP) among others)  declaring that Trump's win is a "last gasp of old white people" (with the - perhaps merely inferred by myself - smugly implied assumption that before too long they will die off and the Progressive Multicultural Communist Dream Paradise can be ushered in), and yet other posters bouncing a whole littany of other ideas off the wall, it's clear that a lot of us are reeling right now and looking for answers as to why Hillary lost and a candidate so widely considered to be so repugnant won. I don't think I have all the answers, but I read these articles and watched this youtube video, and they strike me as perceptive, or at least something to ponder. So, I just thought I'd leave these links here to give you something in the way of food for thought. I probably won't comment anymore, but I hope you read/view the links and consider them carefully.

https://www.propublica.org/article/revenge-of-the-forgotten-class

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/10/democrats-working-class-americans-us-election

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs

 

[(BP)]

Hi @lurkerbelow - I am smug. 

We were discussing various demographics involved and I chimed in with one of many thoughts I had on the subject. Boomers could all disappear tomorrow and it wouldn't change that the Democrats abandoned the working class decades ago and it bit them on the ass here. 

Also, I was a lurker here for years before I participated. No one will bite. This board is refreshingly civil most of the time. Please post more if you're inclined. 

[Raziel]

34 minutes ago, JohnnyJ said:

i can't think of a good argument for why the public should just sit back and accept that the candidate who had the most votes doesn't become president. Does the argument go beyond, "sorry, we created an imperfect system and need to have a leader with legitimacy, sucks to be you?"

the president elect even agrees:

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266038556504494082?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

 

 

 

Because the current system we have, by the rules set forth that were agreed to, he won.  He is the duly elected next President, and he fairly won under the system we have.  Don't like it, pressure your representation to change the system to something more representitive than the First past the post all or nothing Electoral College.  

 

Sadly, the system as it exists does allow for someone to lose the Popular Vote yet still win the EC.  We've known this since pretty much the inception of the EC, yet have done nothing to change it.  It needs changing.  However, to not accept the results because who you wanted to win didn't is to do the EXACT thing you were scared of the Trump Supporters doing had the results been reversed.  

 

Take the results, digest them, and figure out ways to join in affecting change within the Party to make sure what happened this year doesn't happen again in 4.

[JohnnyJ]

I obviously get all that. It sucks and is particularly hard to swallow when the President elect has called the electoral college a sham and called for a revolution and marching in the streets of washington when he was briefly under the impression that romney was leading obama in the popular vote.

[Greggulator]

It really feels a lot like 9/11 in my corner of the world. That's seriously the only comparison I can make. My wife and every woman I know isn't just bummed by this. They're creeped out by this. My gay and black friends are absolutely terrified. I have Filipino friends scared crapless because they're not white and who knows what drunk idiot is going to pull something. And that doesn't even take into consideration my closest friends who are raising a trans child, or the transgendered people I've become friends with.

 

It seriously sucks.

But The DNC can go screw. My number one issue in terms of voting is transparency and good government. I'm pretty fine with someone whose supports policies I disagree with as long as they're coming from an honest, non-corrupt place. Being a politician who, along with her husband, will take money from absolutely anyone isn't a good thing at all. It's just such hubris to think that no one would care about getting donations from Goldman Sachs or whoever and just expect that I won't care how they're regulated. I voted for HRC but out of necessity since I don't want an utter moron to live in the White House. But it's still just terrible.

I'm ashamed to be a registered Democrat. I really don't want to be. But I live in Philly. PA is a closed state. My vote for mayor or city council or Congress essentially does not count unless I vote in the primary. That alone right there causes me a lot of resentment. But making it worse -- my long-term Congressperson was found guilty this year of all sorts of graft charges. This stuff has been out in the open forever. It's not a secret. Yet he was still able to move up the ranks of Congress and into the House Appropriations Committee (arguably the most powerful committee). And when he was on trial, every Philly Dem (including that con man Ed Rendell) came running to talk about what a good guy my Congressman is. Rendell even said we should all be lucky to have a politically connected friend willing to pay for our child's college education (in exchange for an ambassadorship).

All of those people were also Superdelegates, too.

You know what's not the best long play? Bernie rewrote the book on fundraising. He matched HRC in contributions and did it largely funded by people not old enough to have any real amounts of disposable income (and/or are saddled with insane student debt). You really want to cut the legs out of a money-making machine who has an insane following filled with young people who identify with you on every single social issue? Alienating and then dismissing people under the age of 30 who are willing to hand money over they barely have to your direct deposit is the dumbest move.

[Greggulator]

Thanks @lurkerbelow for those links.

I live in Philly in the heart of the bluest of the country. It's really easy to live in a vacuum echo chamber there. I don't know one person who voted for Trump. Everyone I know is super bummed out about this. But almost everyone I'm friends with has at least some college experience. Most people have at least one degree. We're overeducated and we can be pompous and very much look down on the rest of the country.

We really are two countries in a lot of ways. There's the deep blue dots in the coasts and every state's mandatory progressive college town. And then there's everyone else. And people like me have forgotten that.

It really stinks. People feel left behind. I seriously hate that Trump won, but I completely get the rage against the machine.

And I also don't want to label Trump supporters as this overwhelming sea of racists. PA has a Democratic governor and one Democratic Senator and hasn't voted for a Republican presidential candidate since 1988. WIsconsin has Russ Feingold who is nearly as progressive as Bernie and Elizabeth Warren. Wisconsin hasn't voted for a Republican president in 30 years.

There are terrible and terrifying aspects of Trump's supporters. But lumping everyone into one vast sea isn't helping anyone.

And even though it resulted in Trump's victory, I'm happy to have the Electoral College in place. It's the only way people outside of the 10 biggest metro areas in the country can have a seat at the table.

[southofheavy]

I am absolutely devastated by this. I am not surprised, at all, but I hoped with everything within me that it wouldn't happen.

It's been a struggle to contain my emotions since Monday night and I don't see that changing any time in the next few days. The only things that are helping are just taking care of my life, activism, and the counsel of older, wiser people. I'm thankful that at the age of 35, I've finally figured out that I don't have all the answers and maybe, just maybe the best thing to do is to listen to someone who has been around for a while and has seen this country through even darker times. 

I've placed my anger just about everywhere, and ultimately, it isn't productive. Greggulator and lurkerbelow, what you two are saying is about where I've arrived at.

Y'all might dig this article. It's helped me out a lot.

http://www.stonekettle.com/2016/11/bug-hunt.html

I have no idea where this is all going to end up. It's scary.

All I can do is get to work.

Thanks for posting, everyone.

 

[Niners Fan in CT]

I don't want to point fingers either there are more than a few reasons why we ended up with this outcome. There's a lot of blame to be spread around. I do understand why those in the rust belt feel left behind and forgotten. I just don't agree with how some of those folks handled it unless they truly believe what Trump is selling them.. 

Unfortunately, four years from now I think a lot of those people will regret their decision. I don't see the rust belt making a comeback. Just my opinion.

[Jiji]

I just want to thank the mods for letting us vent our fear, anger, and frustrations over the past few days. I think it's helped a lot of people who frequent the boards, at least it has me and I'm not even an American.

[Fallacy!]

People were going to regret whatever decision they made. I'm a black man who voted for Trump, so perhaps I can offer a different perspective.

The last two elections, so many in my community voted for Barack Obama solely because he's a black man. When he spoke to us, he gave the impression that he was going to fix our problems just because he was the same skin color. People were walking around inner cities wearing Obama t-shirts – and not campaign shirts – but literally shirts with his face on it, and some cool-looking "Obama" logo, as if he was a rock star. 

SO MANY of those people feel varying degrees of regret. They still live in gang-infested, poverty-filled areas and they still can't find jobs. I don't necessarily think those people regret their vote in the sense that, if they could do it over they'd vote for McCain or Romney, because they probably wouldn't. Obama is still largely a beloved figure in certain portions of the black community, but again, it's primarily because of nothing more than his skin color. We kind of all realized it was nothing more than politics as usual, which I think is ultimately what turned so many people off to Hillary Clinton. She's politics as usual on steroids.

[Rev Ray]

I'm trying to think of more appropriate analogy :

 

Rust Belt is the terminator lowering himself into the molten metal but giving us the finger instead of the thumbs up

 

Or zero fucks given Tiberius giving Rome the gift of Caligula  as his successor.

 

[sydneybrown]

 

Quote

I don't see the rust belt making a comeback. Just my opinion.

Hillary took the rust belt for granted.  You guys can preach racism, sexism, homophobia, whatever you want.  She wins WI, MI, PA, this thread doesn't exist.  He had no business winning any of them.  But he gave enough people hope.   I'd rather have someone tell me I have a chance to be something than the alternative of not even bothering to visit. Or hell, someone just broadcasting Niners quote to them.  Which I'm sure they get all the time.  

And I'm no Michael Moore fan, but goddamn he got that 100% right.  He said it MONTHS ago and nobody listened.  HIllary didn't.  

There will be no wall, segregation laws aren't being repealed, gay rights aren't being repealed, a lot of these things you guys are freaking out about happening just aren't going to happen.  

There are checks and balances to prevent crazy from being too crazy.  

The next four years may not be to your liking, but shit don't we all kinda work for a boss we really don't like?

 

 

[Niners Fan in CT]

11 minutes ago, Fallacy! said:

We kind of all realized it was nothing more than politics as usual

I can see why you feel that way but I always felt Obama's heart was in the right place and there were a lot of things that he would have done if the 2010 midterms had gone his way. 2010 was a huge blow to the Obama administration. He was devastated by the lack of turnout and that created six years of gridlock.

However, I think he also played it safe at certain points. I felt this way when it came to the police brutality issue. I understand you cannot just say F the police from inside the oval office and that's not what I wanted him to do anyway, there are millions of great great police officers. But I wanted him to push harder with the right to protest and the facts that there are problems they do need correcting and then I wanted to see legislature whether it was passed or not I wanted more efforts brought forth.

All in all, I still love the guy and think he did a solid job given what he inherited and then what followed in 2010.

[Niners Fan in CT]

8 minutes ago, sydneybrown said:

I'd rather have someone tell me I have a chance to be something than the alternative of not even bothering to visit. Or hell, someone just broadcasting Niners quote to them.  Which I'm sure they get all the time.

I told my story a few pages back, basically I lived in a small town that was big on manufacturing also but my father saw it dying out and I was steered away from that. I'm not expecting that from everyone, maybe some didn't have that option for whatever reason and I do feel terrible for what happened to those communities. Don't get me wrong.

But just on your line here about someone telling these people they have a chance. I get that, I get what you're saying and Democrats did take them for granted. I get all of that. But I think they are being lied to and will soon find that out. I'm not quite "sky is falling" but I think it's pretty close.

[Greggulator]

No matter how they voted, we should want the Rust Belt to come back. We should want everyone in this country to feel like they have a chance at a better life. 

I am not more important than someone who lives on the outskirts of Youngstown, Ohio or another struggling Rust Belt town. 

How do we get the Rust Belt to come back? Beats me. But it's not like this was a new issue. It just became an issue no one talked about. Except if you lived in one of those places.

The guy who wrote Hilbilly Elegy (must read) said something really smart I am paraphrasing. Republicans never had much use for the white working class. Then the DNC saw that an overwhelming amount of people who live in the costal cities are liberal and that area has more money so why give a crap about people who don't.

Sounds about right. 

 

 

 

[AxB]

When the Brexit vote happened, I read someone saying that the reason project fear (the remain campaign telling voters that leaving will ruin the economy) failed is because working class people (who already live in poverty and see no way out of it) accept, and on some level relish, the idea of middle class people also having to live in poverty. But both the EU referendum and the US elections became in essence a vote on 'Do you like Politicians?'. And people who dislike politicians voted for the anti-political option.