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2015 NBA OFFSEASON

Cole Miner

By Cole Miner
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supremebve

supremebve

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I have Duncan in my Top 5 but I am a little biased. Going to do a podcast this weekend with some other NBA nuts about the Top Ten players of all time. Plenty of discussion on Russell, Wilt, Duncan, Kobe, etc.

I'd have to put Wilt on top because he has records that are so insane that they will never be broken. My favorite is him averaging more than 48 minutes played per game one season.

 

The thing about Wilt and those stats are that he was essentially unguardable by most of the league, because of his size.  He was good and the numbers are ridiculous, but when you take into account he was being guarded by someone 8 inches shorter than him more often than not it kind of takes something away from him when compared to others.  I think he's clearly top 10, but I really have no idea how to actually compare him to people who were actually playing against people who could compete with him physically. 

 

The next hardest person to judge all time is Lebron James.  The thing I don't think he gets credit for right now is that he's clearly the best player in a league that is probably as talented as any era in the history of the game.  The amount of talent in the NBA right now is insane.  The Clippers have the best point guard in the league, a top 2-3 power forward, and a top 2-3 Center, a top 5 coach and none of us really think they can win a championship.  They just don't have enough to compete with the best teams in the league.  The Thunder have two of the ten best players on the planet(one of which is a 7 foot small forward with 25 foot shooting range and the other is an incredible athlete who may or may not eat puppies for breakfast), and while they're not an easy win for anyone, they struggle in the playoffs.  The Warriors won a championship mostly because everyone on the team was skilled enough that you couldn't guard them, but they were also good enough defensively to guard everyone they came up against.  The Bucks are trying to build a team that consists of a roster of players that are too big to be guarded by the traditionally smaller skilled players and to skilled to be guarded by the less skilled big players.  Their starting point guard is 6'6" and their power forward is 6'8", how the fuck do you match up with that?  The Grizzlies have been a legit threat in the West by basically doing the opposite of everyone else and focusing on the post play of Gasol and Z-Bo.  Anthony Davis is already the best big in the league and he is going to spend the summer working on his 3-point shot.  Defense is at the highest level as it has been in the history of the NBA.  We like to remember the Bad Boy Pistons and how physical they were, but they played that way because they were forced to play man to man defense.  Now teams are allowed to basically do whatever works on defense, and they've taken full advantage of those rules.  Tony Allen was menacing Golden State in the playoffs untilThe Warriors decided to put their best rim protector on Tony Allen. That move seems counter productive until you realize that Tony Allen is essentially useless on offense.  Bogut was just standing there waiting for someone to go near the rim, which basically destroyed Memphis' entire offense.  They basically used the defensive rules to not only destroy their opponents offense, but to free up their own, because Memphis couldn't play Tony Allen if Bogut wasn't going to pretend to guard him.  So how do we rank Lebron who is inarguably the best player in this era, when we don't really understand how good this era is historically?

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Cristobal

Cristobal

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Can we back up to "Tim Duncan is a top 5 all-timer" for a moment?

He's great, amazing, and his longevity is stunning. But Jordan, Magic, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Russell...

 

 OK, I got a little excited.  I'd still say top-10, though.

 

I'd put Timmy top 5 at his position easily. All time?  Who knows.

 

If we're talking about him as a PF, then he's #1 and there's a pretty big gulf between him and #2.

Don't agree that there's such a big gulf between him and Malone/Barkley/Garnett, but I wouldn't argue with him being #1.

And yeah, definitely PF. If we're talking centers, he's not top 5.

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AlfredoE

AlfredoE

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MARK CUBAN TRAVELED BACK IN TIME AND GOT DERON WILLIAMS TO JOIN THE MAVS!!!

 

 

David Aldridge ‏@daldridgetnt 8m8 minutes ago

The Nets and Deron Williams have reached a buyout agreement, per source.

 

 

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 4m4 minutes ago

ESPN sources say Deron Williams is expected to sign a two-year deal with Dallas in the $10 million range once he hits the open market

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Zimbra

Zimbra

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Can we back up to "Tim Duncan is a top 5 all-timer" for a moment?

He's great, amazing, and his longevity is stunning. But Jordan, Magic, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Russell...

 

 OK, I got a little excited.  I'd still say top-10, though.

 

I'd put Timmy top 5 at his position easily. All time?  Who knows.

 

If we're talking about him as a PF, then he's #1 and there's a pretty big gulf between him and #2.

 

Don't agree that there's such a big gulf between him and Malone/Barkley/Garnett, but I wouldn't argue with him being #1.

And yeah, definitely PF. If we're talking centers, he's not top 5.

 

 

I think I'd put him #4 for centers with Russell, Wilt, and Kareem ahead of him.

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Brian Fowler

Brian Fowler

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If we call him a power forward, yes, no doubt, best ever, end of discussion.

If you call him a center... Wilt, Russell, and Kareem are probably going ahead of him without much debate. I'd take Hakeem, but the longevity argument makes it tough.

Then there's the most fun: Shaq. Way better peak numbers across the board, but durability issues... It's a tough one. Is have one of them at number 5, but lord I don't know which.

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Jrag

Jrag

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JJ said on Lowe's podcast that Blake and one of the Clips assistants were in Houston on Tuesday.  DJ telling Cuban he was on a date while eating with Blake is great.  That Cuban was on his front lawn during this exchange is even better.  This continues to be epic.

 

I'd like to imagine Blake showed up at DJ's house on Tuesday made a goofy face like..

 

1412025593000-USATSI-8115535.jpg

 

.. and said something along the lines of "You really leaving BRUH!?"

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RandomAct

RandomAct

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MARK CUBAN TRAVELED BACK IN TIME AND GOT DERON WILLIAMS TO JOIN THE MAVS!!!

 

 

David Aldridge ‏@daldridgetnt 8m8 minutes ago

The Nets and Deron Williams have reached a buyout agreement, per source.

 

 

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 4m4 minutes ago

ESPN sources say Deron Williams is expected to sign a two-year deal with Dallas in the $10 million range once he hits the open market

 

Maybe I'm a lunatic, but I think in the short term, the team that Dallas put together is probably overall stronger than it would have been if we added DAJ.  Broken down D-Will is still much preferred over Jeremy Lin.  Now long term, it's looking rough.  I think the legit tanking happens when Dirk retires, but the team thinks too highly of him to do it while he's active.

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Kuetsar

Kuetsar

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MARK CUBAN TRAVELED BACK IN TIME AND GOT DERON WILLIAMS TO JOIN THE MAVS!!!

 

 

David Aldridge ‏@daldridgetnt 8m8 minutes ago

The Nets and Deron Williams have reached a buyout agreement, per source.

 

 

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 4m4 minutes ago

ESPN sources say Deron Williams is expected to sign a two-year deal with Dallas in the $10 million range once he hits the open market

 

Maybe I'm a lunatic, but I think in the short term, the team that Dallas put together is probably overall stronger than it would have been if we added DAJ.  Broken down D-Will is still much preferred over Jeremy Lin.  Now long term, it's looking rough.  I think the legit tanking happens when Dirk retires, but the team thinks too highly of him to do it while he's active.

 

Too bad D Will is a coach killer. . . .

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Niners Fan in CT

Niners Fan in CT

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Wilt "only" having two rings hurts him and some instances where he inexplicably no-showed in big games. He is obviously one of the five most dominant. Forget his points and rebound numbers for a sec and consider he led the league in assists once because he felt like doing it.

 

If he had added another ring or two I'm pretty sure he'd be #1, no argument.

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Josh Mann

Josh Mann

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Let Amar'e play to his strengths and have a good post defender in there with him, and he can contribute.  I thought he played well for us last year, you just gotta feed him in the post.

 

And besides, Riley got him at $1.4m, so anything he contributes, like at ALL, justifies the deal.

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Greggulator

Greggulator

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Duncan was the best player on a team that won five championships over a insanely long period of time. The Spurs are a great organization. But Manu and Tony Parker are his two best teammates and will be in the Hall of Fame. But neither one of those guys is anywhere near as good as Kareem or Worthy or McHale or Parish or Pippen.  Duncan has an excellent case to make that he's Top 5.I'm not sure who to replace but the guy is absolutely incredible.

And, yes, totally different positions but Duncan's better than Kobe. Kobe's later years have not held up. He's nowhere near as efficient as Duncan and has become a pretty embarrassing defender, too. Duncan's still a total rock of a defender.

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supremebve

supremebve

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Duncan was the best player on a team that won five championships over a inDunsanely long period of time. The Spurs are a great organization. But Manu and Tony Parker are his two best teammates and will be in the Hall of Fame. But neither one of those guys is anywhere near as good as Kareem or Worthy or McHale or Parish or Pippen.  Duncan has an excellent case to make that he's Top 5.I'm not sure who to replace but the guy is absolutely incredible.

And, yes, totally different positions but Duncan's better than Kobe. Kobe's later years have not held up. He's nowhere near as efficient as Duncan and has become a pretty embarrassing defender, too. Duncan's still a total rock of a defender.

Duncan's biggest problem historically is that he's the anti-Vince Carter.  Vice Carter is a really good basketball player who will forever be overrated, because he was so spectacular.  Tim Duncan is one of the best basketball players ever, but there is nothing spectacular about his game.  He is just rock solid at everything.  Throughout his career the Spurs have run their offense through Duncan, the defense through Duncan, and depended on him time and time again in the clutch.  He wasn't doing 360 dunks and behind the back passes, he was doing jab steps, pump fakes, and just playing really good fundamentally sound basketball.  When we remember basketball players, we kind of remember their big highlights, but that isn't really how to judge Duncan.  He's so much more than his highlight reel.

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