NikoBaltimore Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 If you like the Patriots at all, Brady/Bellichick is right. If you're like me (Ravens fan) then this only intensifies the hatred that Baltimore has for them. The whole "It's not ISIS" line is really odd for somebody to say. It's like me cheating on a certification test and I say, "Yeah, but it's not ebola!" Yes, this whole thing is trivial and the Pats were going to win anyway. But if all you can say aside from laughing is that, then that's a bullshit comeback. On top of that, Brady has been touted as the golden boy from seemingly every sports outlet (especially NFL Network and ESPN) It almost comes across like "How dare they insinuate he would do such a thing." For all the talk years ago of how much Favre was loved, it seems to have intensified with Brady. If they had a hand in it, fess up and take the punishment. If it was somebody else then punish them. But they could at least pretend to take it seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 I just wished someone in the press conference would have just admitted that they are asking questions because they are doing "balls" jokes. Everyone else is treating this as serious news when deep down you know they are saying "We just got Tom Brady to admit how he likes his balls EH EH EH" Like I have said before, every the most passionate person who thinks this is worse than BountyGate, SpyGate, or the Ray rice situation STILL believes that the Pats would have beaten the Colts if everything was fair. So what are we fucking arguing about Just because someone didn't have to cheat, doesn't excuse them from actually cheating. If Mike Tyson started every fight by kicking his opponent in the nuts, when he eventually would have knocked them out any way doesn't mean he shouldn't kick people in the nuts. The issue isn't that it had any bearing on the outcome of the game, the issue is that they tried to do something illegal to help them in case the game was close. There is no way that 11 out of their 12 balls were under inflated on accident, especially when we know that none of the Colts balls were under inflated. Someone decided to deflate those balls, and thankfully it had no bearing on the outcome of the game. That does not mean that it wasn't wrong. The problem with your argument is that if I kicked you in the nuts the chance of me knocking you out is significantly greater. There is no proof that deflated the balls actually help the Patriots in the game. It doesn't make the Colts tackle worse. It doesn't make defending the run harder. In fact it has been proven that when the balls were "fixed" in the 2nd half that the Patriots dominated the Colts even more. So this "cheating" actually hurt their own team. Unless you have some brilliant proof that the Colts would have led 7-0 at halftime which still would have made the final score 28-7 Listen if you want to treat the the spitter in baseball or doing something to the tarp on a wet day to make the field muddy then fine but the idea that we are going to punish Brady and/or Coach Hoodie in the same way as the Saints and Sean Payton is just embarrassing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 You're embarrassed about how some football player and coach may or may not be punished? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I just wished someone in the press conference would have just admitted that they are asking questions because they are doing "balls" jokes. Everyone else is treating this as serious news when deep down you know they are saying "We just got Tom Brady to admit how he likes his balls EH EH EH" Like I have said before, every the most passionate person who thinks this is worse than BountyGate, SpyGate, or the Ray rice situation STILL believes that the Pats would have beaten the Colts if everything was fair. So what are we fucking arguing about Just because someone didn't have to cheat, doesn't excuse them from actually cheating. If Mike Tyson started every fight by kicking his opponent in the nuts, when he eventually would have knocked them out any way doesn't mean he shouldn't kick people in the nuts. The issue isn't that it had any bearing on the outcome of the game, the issue is that they tried to do something illegal to help them in case the game was close. There is no way that 11 out of their 12 balls were under inflated on accident, especially when we know that none of the Colts balls were under inflated. Someone decided to deflate those balls, and thankfully it had no bearing on the outcome of the game. That does not mean that it wasn't wrong. The problem with your argument is that if I kicked you in the nuts the chance of me knocking you out is significantly greater. There is no proof that deflated the balls actually help the Patriots in the game. It doesn't make the Colts tackle worse. It doesn't make defending the run harder. In fact it has been proven that when the balls were "fixed" in the 2nd half that the Patriots dominated the Colts even more. So this "cheating" actually hurt their own team. Unless you have some brilliant proof that the Colts would have led 7-0 at halftime which still would have made the final score 28-7 Listen if you want to treat the the spitter in baseball or doing something to the tarp on a wet day to make the field muddy then fine but the idea that we are going to punish Brady and/or Coach Hoodie in the same way as the Saints and Sean Payton is just embarrassing to me. I guess it is more like cheating on a test only to find out you already knew the answers. Either way they still cheated on the test. At this point they got caught robbing a bank and are trying to give the money back on some no harm no foul nonsense. There is far more proof that the Patriots actually broke a rule than there was for Payton and the Saints. The Bountygate scandal was not based on much actual fact, when there is concrete evidence of cheating here. If Payton got suspended for a year based on something that very well may not have even happened, why is it so embarrassing to think that Coach Hoodie could be punished for something that we know for a fact happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 "It's not ISIS" is the most disingenuous shit. The old "don't you have other things to worry about" argument. It's the mark of the dishonest, stupid and lazy. As if nobody can concern themselves with more than one issue at a time. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muhammedboehm Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I'm going to toss something out I admit I have nothing to back this up. Could the reason the NFL seams to be dragging its feet in this matter is, that in fact the Refs never oked the balls before the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I'm loving the logical fallacy of "The Cheating is ok because it was a blowout so whatever". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdA Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I'm going to toss something out I admit I have nothing to back this up. Could the reason the NFL seams to be dragging its feet in this matter is, that in fact the Refs never oked the balls before the game? Yeah, I think that is a big part of it. Likely the refs don't even bother to check the balls at all and go on faith that the balls are OK (that and rightly believing the pressure really doesn't matter). So the big deal now with all this is that the Pats made the refs and the league look like idiots because no one even bothers to check the balls and that it's such a stupid-stupid issue. Plus there's the whole insane issue of Manning and Brady being the reason the NFL allows teams to provide their own balls that the league REALLY doesn't want to think about and answer to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 We've reached the point where this has been discussed so much that I don't even give a shit anymore. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 What bugs the shit out of me is when someone gets caught doing something wrong and they act like it's not something they normally do. Like Jon Jones saying he only did coke twice in his whole life and the second time is the time he was caught. Or like a husband being caught cheating and claiming it was just that one time. Wow, that guy has some seriously bad luck. The one time he did something wrong and he was caught! My point is that it's dumb to focus on whether this helped or didn't help the Patriots this time. The focus should be on what other underhanded shit they have been doing the whole season and in previous seasons but were never caught. Because those guys are shady as fuck. Somebody else brought up bountygate and that's a good example. The whole Saints coaching staff and multiple players were suspended on hearsay. Here we have evidence of wrongdoing and if all that comes of this is a fine and some patsy equipment manager gets fired, that's some bullshit right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Somebody else brought up bountygate and that's a good example. The whole Saints coaching staff and multiple players were suspended on hearsay. Here we have evidence of wrongdoing and if all that comes of this is a fine and some patsy equipment manager gets fired, that's some bullshit right there. This doesn't even take into consideration the fact that the NFL threatened to eject Marshawn Lynch for wearing the wrong shoes or how they punished the Cowboys and Redskins for not respecting a salary cap that didn't even exist during the lockout. The NFL loves to be heavy handed with punishments, so if they slap the Patriots on the wrist I'll be calling bullshit as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Yeah, cheating is bad but the score was 45-7. I am not sure you can totally make deflated footballs the root cause of that asswhippping. Most of that loss was due to the Colts blowing chunks collectively as a team. That being said, I am all for punishing the hell out of the Pats because this fucking underhanded bullshit has happened before. This isn't the first time they have been called out for shenanigans. There has been Eavesdropgate in addition to Deflategate and that is just the crap they've been caught doing.. Suspend Tom Brady from playing in the Super Bowl. That'll learn 'em. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJay Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 One thing that I have thought is, don't the refs have hold of the balls between every play? So that could be why the NFL is dragging their feet. The pats could point to the refs and say why didn't they say anything and it took an int and the other team to find out. With all the balls during the course of a season that the refs handle, don't you think they should be able to tell if one is underinflated? Though they do have trouble calling games....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Most of that loss was due to the Colts blowing chunks collectively as a team. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glfpunk Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Like I have said before, every the most passionate person who thinks this is worse than BountyGate, SpyGate, or the Ray rice situation STILL believes that the Pats would have beaten the Colts if everything was fair. So what are we fucking arguing about I don't think there's a much worse point of view a person could take in this. You're making a determination of whether or not the cheating made a difference which for one thing is really impossible to know for sure regardless of opinion, and you're using that to say the cheating didn't matter. Cheating is cheating. How about they start calling penalties that way. Offensive pass interference? Ah, he would have caught the ball anyway so fuck it no penalty. Holding? Doesn't matter, he wouldn't have made it to the QB so no penalty. Illegal forward pass? He only stepped over the line of scrimmage by a couple feet so who gives a shit, would have had the same result from behind the line. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 For once I agree with glfpunk. Pats would've still beat the shit out of the Colts but like I said before, Pats have been caught doing underhanded shit before. May or may not have affected the outcome of the game but cheaters need to be dealt with harshly and decisively. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.K.o.S. Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 One thing that I have thought is, don't the refs have hold of the balls between every play? So that could be why the NFL is dragging their feet. The pats could point to the refs and say why didn't they say anything and it took an int and the other team to find out. With all the balls during the course of a season that the refs handle, don't you think they should be able to tell if one is underinflated? Though they do have trouble calling games....... The most plausible response I've heard to that is "yes, the refs would be able to tell, but a lot of teams probably do this sort of thing and it's not something that anyone cared about until now". I think the best analogy is to Jacques Demers calling for a measurement of Marty McSorley's stick in game 2 of the 1993 Stanley Cup finals, which got the Canadiens a late power play and allowed them to tie the game and win it in overtime. Except here, there's no prescribed penalty for playing with illegal game balls. But I do think the punishment should be, like, a 15-yard penalty on the Patriots or something on the one play, rather than fining them millions of dollars and suspending everyone for a year and taking away their draft picks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Most of that loss was due to the Colts blowing chunks collectively as a team. Damn. This is going to cost me points in the 2014 Cuddliest Board Member rankings, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewar Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 She's not going to give away the 2014 Cuddliest Member title. She's using her signature to get you guys to agree with her opinions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Valentine's Day. Be patient, boys and girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I've never been cuddly, so I'll just say it: only reasons the Colts made the title game were playing in a terrible division letting them get an easy first round draw and Peyton being injured. The only AFC playoff team they were better than was Cincinnati. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Like I have said before, every the most passionate person who thinks this is worse than BountyGate, SpyGate, or the Ray rice situation STILL believes that the Pats would have beaten the Colts if everything was fair. So what are we fucking arguing about I don't think there's a much worse point of view a person could take in this. You're making a determination of whether or not the cheating made a difference which for one thing is really impossible to know for sure regardless of opinion, and you're using that to say the cheating didn't matter. Cheating is cheating. How about they start calling penalties that way. Offensive pass interference? Ah, he would have caught the ball anyway so fuck it no penalty. Holding? Doesn't matter, he wouldn't have made it to the QB so no penalty. Illegal forward pass? He only stepped over the line of scrimmage by a couple feet so who gives a shit, would have had the same result from behind the line. Each one of those examples features a situation that impacts a play. if you interfere with the receiver you are restricting the receiver from catching the ball. My point is how did deflating the balls actually cause a team to be better than the others. If we are going to turn this into a horrible crime then I want all of Aaron Rodgers wins and yards up to a certain point taken off the record because he admitted that he deflates the ball to a certain level. But we don't hate the Packers as much as we hate the Patriots (member of that club by the way) so that is okay. that is my biggest gripe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I've never been cuddly, so I'll just say it: only reasons the Colts made the title game were playing in a terrible division letting them get an easy first round draw and Peyton being injured. The only AFC playoff team they were better than was Cincinnati. One day, that Tumbler is going to pass you by on the highway. And you'll know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glfpunk Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Well since you have multiple players stating how they prefer the ball to be slightly under inflated or over inflated and there are psi restrictions in place, I don't think it makes much sense to question whether it has an impact or not. Of course it does. You have nfl players telling you it does. What more do you need? They're telling you point blank that it makes a difference to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 One of the biggest factors in throwing a football accurately is grip strength so an easier to grip ball makes passing easier. One of the first things to go in a aging quarterback is loss of grip strength. The Patriots quarterback is 38-years-old, and has been noticeably worse on deep balls over the years. Having a ball that is easier to grip helps their passing game in a very real way. Have you been watching Peyton Manning since his neck injury where grip strength is a known side effect? How many tight spirals do you see? How many accurate deep balls do you see? Did you watch the Super Bowl last year where the Seahawks dared him to throw deep? If that game was to turn into a shoot out where Tom Brady was going to have to try to compete pass for pass with 25-year-old Andrew Luck, having an easier to grip ball would have been helpful to their aging quarterback. It makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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