What is stopping former fans from watching WWE?

[LooseCannon]

All the stuff I hate and none of the stuff I love.

[Victator]

But really wrestling stopped being a power fantasy for the common man and is a power fantasy for a tired old man on the edge of death. It doesn't help the rest of his family is very sheltered to anything resembling what the average person is like. 

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

Vic's point about weak faces is dead on. Sheamus should be ruining every bad guy's life even when it's none of his business.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Vic's point about weak faces is dead on. Sheamus should be ruining every bad guy's life even when it's none of his business.

Aww, but then he'd be a bully, wah wah.

[MORELOCK]

I don't think anyone really cares that the faces are bullies (it's an old problem), it's more that the entire anti-bullying Be A Star campaign is thrown onto WWE TV when professional wrestling at its core is essentially a bunch of grown men bullying each other.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I don't think anyone really cares that the faces are bullies (it's an old problem), it's more that the entire anti-bullying Be A Star campaign is thrown onto WWE TV when professional wrestling at its core is essentially a bunch of grown men bullying each other.

Yeah but those kids at the Be A Star get togethers seem to understand that the guys there talking seriously about bullying being a bad thing are just play acting on TV far more than grown men on the internet do.

[Victator]

Of course a lot of fans do not even understand the concept of a bully. A guy attacking a man who outweighs him by over a 100 pounds is not a bully. Especially when the big guy has ambushed him more than once. It is not really those fans fault. They were warped by PWI praising Flair. 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

That nothing really means anything any more.

 

Why do I care if someone wins a belt? They don't mean anything, no-one's really worked their way up for one, and they'll just lose it a few months later.

Who do I care if this guy beats this other guy? They're bound to trade a million wins each

Character motivation and consistency is lacking, even when most characters are that generic that they are interchangeable between several others on the roster.

[Johnny Sorrow]

That nothing really means anything any more.Why do I care if someone wins a belt? They don't mean anything, no-one's really worked their way up for one, and they'll just lose it a few months later.Who do I care if this guy beats this other guy? They're bound to trade a million wins eachCharacter motivation and consistency is lacking, even when most characters are that generic that they are interchangeable between several others on the roster.

Yeah. Is that really the answer to the question being asked? People who aren't watching can't have complaints about what they aren't watching.

[Stevie Ray Von Erich]

I think one thing that keeps people from coming back is how terrible a television show Raw is week to week.

 

In the late 90's and early 00's, the shows felt exciting and full of life. But then, on a whole, tv was much worse. People were watching because it was cool and controversial and interesting. And, in those respects, it was better than a lot of what else was on tv. I think the ratings back then prove this.

 

But television, in general, has improved by leaps and bounds in the decade following. Lots of people would argue there is more and better television programming available now than ever before. WWE, though, has not worked to make Raw a good television show. It might be a fine wrestling show sometimes, but it's not a good tv show. It neither looks nor feels like other fictional dramas or sports broadcasts.

 

I think compared to any serial drama, the backstage segments look second-rate at best and the acting is often even worse. If it was presented to look more like a television show (or a sports broadcast) I think it could draw those casual fans back in.

 

WWE programing was unique and good the last time it was popular. While the broadcasts are still unique, the quality of the overall show has suffered while nearly ever other competing show/network has gotten much better. That, to me, is a great way to alienate fans who were once willing to spend time on your program. There are simply much better investments of your leisure or entertainment time, especially if wrestling isn't really an overriding interest of yours.

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

 

That nothing really means anything any more.Why do I care if someone wins a belt? They don't mean anything, no-one's really worked their way up for one, and they'll just lose it a few months later.Who do I care if this guy beats this other guy? They're bound to trade a million wins eachCharacter motivation and consistency is lacking, even when most characters are that generic that they are interchangeable between several others on the roster.

Yeah. Is that really the answer to the question being asked? People who aren't watching can't have complaints about what they aren't watching.

 

 

I'd classify myself as a former fan. In Australia, Raw and Smackdown are probably replayed at least three times each a week, and I have access to the equivalent of Tivo. Each week, I'll check the recaps out on online. If I so chose to do so, I'd schedule the replay to record simply by pressing a button on an app on my phone.

 

Since about 2005, I would think I've done so maybe ten to twelve times. A few of those times, I've failed to watch that recording.

 

The 'E are quite capable of producing content that I would tune in and see what happened. It has proven itself incapable of scripting that content to make me want to tune in again next week and see what eventuates from there on in.

 

In that timeframe, I would suggest that anything that has been sold as "This is a big deal" has either a) been seasonal (i.e. Wrestlemania), a one-off that has no ramifications beyond its immediate payoff (Rock/DX/Bret/Austin/celebrity cameo) or c) has failed to sell me on the idea that it is a big deal. (HHH/Lesnar, Miz and Truth invading, The Shield).

 

They fail to understand the commodity of titles, and I think to a lesser degree misunderstood the importance of the Benoit/Guerrero title wins of 2004. It wasn't so much that they were given the title, or that it was "their" guy being given a go, but rather that the legitimate back story of spending so many years trying to get to the top of their industry has finally paid off and they were being given a shot at being given the ball to run with. Despite the negative reaction, I'd apply this equally to JBL's title reign that year. It meant something. Every subsequent attempt to capture lightning in a jar since then (Edge, initial Punk reign, RVD, Bryan, Rey) has missed why it worked. They've expected the viewers to generate their own pace/interest in the title reign, whilst doing little to promote it. They'll be bottom of the card, be nowhere near the main focus of the program, almost to say "You aren't supposed to care about this".

 

One thing to complain about the lack of in-ring product, however I think its more pertinent that what is in-ring amounts to ultimately nothing. Cesaro will beat a midcarder on Raw, then lose to them on Smackdown, then a rematch on Raw? Why would I invest ten minutes of my time to watch this, if its going nowhere? Unfortunately, the majority of the 140 odd minutes of programming isn't worth investing in. How much programming do you look at in hindsight and say "Damn I missed that" or "Glad I didn't bother"?

 

My third point probably doesn't carry as much weight, but, why is Chris Jericho in the WWE, when he has a famous band that travel the world instead? What's his motivation to be wrestling an evil ballroom dancer rather than that? Why is The Rock not filming movies but feuding with an evil straight edge guy? The potential for cross-over stars is not quite as high as its ever been (Hogan early 80s or Rock/Austin late 90s the peak), but the quantity of it is probably at its peak, with guys being able to turn up on VH1, or straight to DVD release movies, minor Twitter celebrities, etc.

 

Why in anyones view would anyone stay in the WWE ahead of making a name for themselves by a plethora of other mediums? Pedantic? Probably, but I think that plays a big part in explaining the greater need for character motivation in today's programming. If anything they go the opposite and go with none at all.

[JRV]

If I were to predict that Raw is going to end with somebody's music playing as they stand on the ramp staring down someone in the ring for an incredibly long and awkward amount of time, how likely is it that I'll be wrong? The writing is awful. It's shocking that the ratings are still as high as they are.

 

Looking at what draws and what doesn't, on TV in general, I don't think ratings have a lot to do with quality.

 

 

The best critcism of modern wrestling came from South Park, where they saw "wrestling" as people standing around and talking, not actually wrestling.

 

Which is a trite, worn out criticism usually made by non-fans who wouldn't enjoy it either way, whether there was more talk than wrestling (which there isn't) or whether WWE was some kind of promo-less environment and all programming was just entrances and matches.

[Petey]

Vic's point about weak faces is dead on. Sheamus should be ruining every bad guy's life even when it's none of his business.

Because all Irish people are hooligans? That does make sense.

 

I think the simple answer is that there's no immediacy to the TV show and nothing that makes it say, "I can't miss this show!" More times than not, Raw ends with a tidy little happy ending and everything's A-OK in the WWE Universe. So what's the reason to watch the following week? I'm not saying you have to do what WCW did on Nitro in '97 with everything being a giant tease to lead to the following week, but Raw has a little too many complete and happy endings.

 

Also, don't underestimate the impact that WWE's video recaps have had. They've gotten so good at catching you up on what's going on that it's like, "well, I can miss this week because I'll easily find out what happened. There's nothing I'm actually going to miss."

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

The former fans I know often say that they don't watch anymore because too many of the wrestlers are just like normal people. No gimmicks, it's just 'regular named guy' vs 'regular named guy'. They're bored when they watch because there's no-one to really catch and hold their attention.

[MORELOCK]

 

I don't think anyone really cares that the faces are bullies (it's an old problem), it's more that the entire anti-bullying Be A Star campaign is thrown onto WWE TV when professional wrestling at its core is essentially a bunch of grown men bullying each other.

Yeah but those kids at the Be A Star get togethers seem to understand that the guys there talking seriously about bullying being a bad thing are just play acting on TV far more than grown men on the internet do.

 

And that is an enormous problem - kayfabe being broken right in the middle of a segment on Raw. Why should we invest ourselves in something they constantly tell us is fake? Suspension of disbelief is gone.

 

 

That nothing really means anything any more.Why do I care if someone wins a belt? They don't mean anything, no-one's really worked their way up for one, and they'll just lose it a few months later.Who do I care if this guy beats this other guy? They're bound to trade a million wins eachCharacter motivation and consistency is lacking, even when most characters are that generic that they are interchangeable between several others on the roster.

Yeah. Is that really the answer to the question being asked? People who aren't watching can't have complaints about what they aren't watching.

 

Yes? When they stopped watching for those reasons? I took 4 years off from watching from 07-11 for these specific reasons: they weren't making me care anymore. And they're still terrible at it - the only ones that can get you to care do so in spite of the writing, not because of it.

 

 

If I were to predict that Raw is going to end with somebody's music playing as they stand on the ramp staring down someone in the ring for an incredibly long and awkward amount of time, how likely is it that I'll be wrong? The writing is awful. It's shocking that the ratings are still as high as they are.

 

Looking at what draws and what doesn't, on TV in general, I don't think ratings have a lot to do with quality.

 

 

The best critcism of modern wrestling came from South Park, where they saw "wrestling" as people standing around and talking, not actually wrestling.

 

Which is a trite, worn out criticism usually made by non-fans who wouldn't enjoy it either way, whether there was more talk than wrestling (which there isn't) or whether WWE was some kind of promo-less environment and all programming was just entrances and matches.

 

Fantastic way of sidestepping both points and saying nothing at all.

[MJKostka]

Lack of polarizing stars and the fact that nothing is important and the past is better. That's what they blatantly tell us, anyway.

[odessasteps]

It was interesting to hear Ross on the Austin podcast discussing the MidSouth TV.

Admittedly, i am a mid-south mark, but i agree that Watts generally had 6 segments a show and made them all matter.

Could Watts do the same with 6 hours a week or whatever Vince produces this week?

[JRGoldman]

I think people have said it throughout this thread in other ways, but I think a major problem and potential turn off right now us the lack of mid carders. During the attitude era, it was possible to be a fan and get behind someone like Gangrel or the Godfather and feel as though I wasn't wasting my time. Now there is no way I could ever feel justified trying to get behind a current mid carder. They either bring them up main event but let them flounder, or just have them trade meaningless wins forever. There is never an actual feud or anything to get behind.

[Greggulator]

My brother could not have been a bigger WWE fan and no longer watches.

 

He got really into MMA and boxing.

 

He also says he doesn't have the time anymore. There's also so many hours in the day for people in our age bracket (mid-30s) with careers, families, friends, etc. Keeping up with the WWE is hard, since Raw is three hours and there's Smackdown and then the PPVs.He got back into it for a bit with the Summer of Punk angle (and loved Punk showing up at ComicCon) but hated how he came back so quickly. It went from being a really special angle into a dud and then it became some sort of "grand mystery" with Steph and Nash stinking up the joint. They made the story way too complex for him.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

edit

Edited January 25, 2022 by Zakk_Sabbath

[BEN!]

I think time is the biggest issue and I'm not even a lapsed fan but I just don't feel like I've got time to watch Raw weekly much less some of the other first run shows.  I prioritize Main Event and NXT to the front of the line and I'll just watch the rest whenever I get a chance.  When I do watch Raw or even SmackDown, it feels like a bit of a chore to get through cause you can probably just watch one show a month and not feel like you've missed a thing.

 

And there's just some really broken logic with pushing a 3 hour weekly television program in order to get people to pay for a 3 hour monthly PPV.

 

 

I can't remember who on here said it, and it applies to most promotions (at least the ones I see with TV), and it perfectly illustrated the biggest problem with ProWres today.It was something along the lines of "wrestling shows aren't wrestling shows anymore, but shows about people who put on wrestling shows".

 

Pretty sure that was me.  I don't remember the particulars but I think the solution I came up with started with a monkey in High Energy pants and ended with Spacestation Buck and The Space Stud Stable stopping Hollycaust Holly and The Space Nazis from taking over the WWE Universe.  The end result was the global economy got jumpstarted.

[Phantom Lord]

I think time is the biggest issue and I'm not even a lapsed fan but I just don't feel like I've got time to watch Raw weekly much less some of the other first run shows.  I prioritize Main Event and NXT to the front of the line and I'll just watch the rest whenever I get a chance.  When I do watch Raw or even SmackDown, it feels like a bit of a chore to get through cause you can probably just watch one show a month and not feel like you've missed a thing.

 

And there's just some really broken logic with pushing a 3 hour weekly television program in order to get people to pay for a 3 hour monthly PPV.

 

 

I can't remember who on here said it, and it applies to most promotions (at least the ones I see with TV), and it perfectly illustrated the biggest problem with ProWres today.It was something along the lines of "wrestling shows aren't wrestling shows anymore, but shows about people who put on wrestling shows".

 

Pretty sure that was me.  I don't remember the particulars but I think the solution I came up with started with a monkey in High Energy pants and ended with Spacestation Buck and The Space Stud Stable stopping Hollycaust Holly and The Space Nazis from taking over the WWE Universe.  The end result was the global economy got jumpstarted.

If one of us hits the Powerball, we have to buy TNA or ROH for Ben. Hell lets just buy both of them and merge them. It couldn't possibly cost that much.

[Niners Fan in CT]

 

 

"WHO FUCKING CARES? You can't be "good" at wrestling. No one actually wins anything, you loser. Two oiled up fag actors, in tights, rolling around with each other. Great."

 

 

Your friends sound like assholes.

[mco543]

Yeah, that.

 

You can't salvage something like that but that isn't so much a WWE problem as it is a "your friends sound like assholes" problem.

[Burgundy LaRue]

WWE has the same problem as daytime drama:  they don't develop new characters properly, have their older characters behave in ways that make no sense, and no  longer write compelling stories/arcs.  In its push to become mainstream, the WWE has totally abandoned what would work in that scenario.