ALL IN III - 8/25/2024

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

2 hours ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

I often wonder what kind of career Danielson would have had if he'd started 10 years earlier, in the pre-Benoit murders era.  That really did seem to be the thing that made people in the wrestling industry realize that CTE was real and a horrible problem. 

Danielson is an all-time great potential, but obviously derailed by injuries, be they his body or his brain. Because of that he never really could establish himself in that next S-Tier echelon, where he crossed over and became famous outside of the wrestling bubble.   I always hate seeing him make light of it when he does the fake injury angles in like ALL his big AEW matches.  But its mainly because it makes me sad to think what could have been, rather than what reality holds. 

Maybe it's just me. 

As someone that’s had multiple concussions themselves you perfectly summed up my issues with Bryan. I love watching him perform, but the way it feels like he’s almost making a mockery of brain trauma with his fake injury stuff ticks me off to no end. It’s not a joking matter, and one Tony should pull him aside and politely ask him to knock off, but of course it’s Bryan so he’s allowed to get away with it. 

To me the scariest thing I’ve seen other than my own concussions was the blow that literally knocked Tua out during the Thursday night game against the Bengals. 

[Sex Machine Gun]

Why does this "you shouldn't think he owes us a title run" thread keep coming up? Danielson (or any wrestler for that matter) doesn't owe us shit and I don't think anyone is on that tip. At most it's a "gold watch" kind of sentiment and no one expects more than a nice moment followed shortly after by him putting someone over as a boost for someone else. As much as we love him we also don't want him to be crippled or have a hard time remembering anything. 

Swerve can recover. Think about the stop, and start, and stop, and start, of his time with Keith Lee. Dude remained consequential, and a hot blowoff program with Hangman with the belt involved after beating Bryan will make everyone forget (in a non-harmful way) that Swerve lost to Danielson in the first place.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

22 minutes ago, Sex Machine Gun said:

Why does this "you shouldn't think he owes us a title run" thread keep coming up? Danielson (or any wrestler for that matter) doesn't owe us shit and I don't think anyone is on that tip. At most it's a "gold watch" kind of sentiment and no one expects more than a nice moment followed shortly after by him putting someone over as a boost for someone else. As much as we love him we also don't want him to be crippled or have a hard time remembering anything. 

Swerve can recover. Think about the stop, and start, and stop, and start, of his time with Keith Lee. Dude remained consequential, and a hot blowoff program with Hangman with the belt involved after beating Bryan will make everyone forget (in a non-harmful way) that Swerve lost to Danielson in the first place.

The World Title shouldn't be a "gold watch". If it is, then I guess we can look forward to Billy Gunn, World Champion. After all, he seems to be well-liked in the locker room, and he hasn't held it yet.

You yourself earlier in the thread said it was "the right thing to do". Why? He's said he doesn't feel as though he can deliver the match quality capable of being a main eventer, much less World Champion anymore. But putting the title on him is the "right thing to do"?

Others in this thread have advocated for overruling Danielson if he doesn't want the title and putting it on him anyway. Why? Why are people so willing to disregard what he wants?

[odessasteps]

On the other hand, listening too much to the talent is probably a bad idea too. As I said the other day, fans, especially the smark fans of this company, know Danielson is arguably the best wrestler in the company (some would prob say Kenny or Osprey). And those fans prob think the best wrestler should be their champion. 

i think one problem is it seems like he works too often to be an attraction and not enough to be a weekly regular. 

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

1 hour ago, Sex Machine Gun said:

Why does this "you shouldn't think he owes us a title run" thread keep coming up? Danielson (or any wrestler for that matter) doesn't owe us shit and I don't think anyone is on that tip. At most it's a "gold watch" kind of sentiment and no one expects more than a nice moment followed shortly after by him putting someone over as a boost for someone else. As much as we love him we also don't want him to be crippled or have a hard time remembering anything. 

Swerve can recover. Think about the stop, and start, and stop, and start, of his time with Keith Lee. Dude remained consequential, and a hot blowoff program with Hangman with the belt involved after beating Bryan will make everyone forget (in a non-harmful way) that Swerve lost to Danielson in the first place.

This is why it comes up. I respect and really enjoy interacting with @The Natural but here’s there quote from page one of this topic:

This. This. This. Bryan Danielson is so selfless, I really hope he wins the AEW World Championship. If Danielson says no, override him. Say if Danielson doesn't want it, he can have a short reign if need be. Sucks we never got the Bryan Danielson vs. Kenny Omega AEW Grand Slam Dynamite 2021 rematch.

Which to me is the boards number one Danielson fan clearly stating that his wishes don’t matter at all, and he needs to have a run with the belt. If they’d quit advocating it so hardly it wouldn’t keep getting brought up. 

Not to mention how does it benefit Swerve to lose cleanly to him and then regain it a month and a half later? Just leave it on Swerve if that’s the best course of action you can come up with for him. Heck losing it Ospreay at Forbidden Door would’ve made more story sense, and they didn’t do that.

[Matt D]

Khan is going to book what he wants in the end. He seems to be a kind, caring, compassionate guy, he really does, but at the end of the day he doesn’t need this. He wants it, and the point of all the time, money, and effort is to get what he wants. If he’s not getting what he wants out of this, then why do it in the first place? Part of that is probably building something bigger than him for other people. A lot of it is proving that he’s right and this can be a success. But a lot of it is also fulfilling his notebook dreams. He probably wants Danielson as part of his title lineage. He’s not an unsympathetic figure in this. He’s a poster from the old days with all the good and bad that comes with that.

But we’ll see soon enough. 

Hopefully the outcome is something that can make a lot of people, including us, Danielson, and Khan all happy. There’s no reason not to want that. 

[mystman]

To everyone who keeps saying he doesn't want to be AEW champion, I'm going to leave this quote here:

"I don't know if you guys know this, this is probably something that the boys know, but I'm a big-time liar. I love to lie. "

[Gordi the recovering AEW f]

14 minutes ago, mystman said:

To everyone who keeps saying he doesn't want to be AEW champion, I'm going to leave this quote here:

"I don't know if you guys know this, this is probably something that the boys know, but I'm a big-time liar. I love to lie. "

Yeah, but...

when he said that...

HE WAS LYING

[Nice Guy Eddie]

23 minutes ago, Gordi the recovering AEW f said:

Yeah, but...

when he said that...

HE WAS LYING

[Go2Sleep]

2 hours ago, Matt D said:

Khan is going to book what he wants in the end. He seems to be a kind, caring, compassionate guy, he really does, but at the end of the day he doesn’t need this. He wants it, and the point of all the time, money, and effort is to get what he wants. If he’s not getting what he wants out of this, then why do it in the first place? Part of that is probably building something bigger than him for other people. A lot of it is proving that he’s right and this can be a success. But a lot of it is also fulfilling his notebook dreams. He probably wants Danielson as part of his title lineage. He’s not an unsympathetic figure in this. He’s a poster from the old days with all the good and bad that comes with that.

But we’ll see soon enough. 

Hopefully the outcome is something that can make a lot of people, including us, Danielson, and Khan all happy. There’s no reason not to want that. 

If TK wanted the belt on Danielson for a short reign, he should've had him win one of the Punk-injury tournaments.

I'm fine with Danielson joining Sting and Cody as guys who didn't need the top belt to be a top guy in AEW's history.

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

10 hours ago, mystman said:

To everyone who keeps saying he doesn't want to be AEW champion, I'm going to leave this quote here:

"I don't know if you guys know this, this is probably something that the boys know, but I'm a big-time liar. I love to lie. "

Then he’d have won the tournament that Moxley did so his “best friend” could have that vacation he’d been promised. We all know the quote you posted as it’s been mentioned to death already too. We get it. Everyone in wrestling lies.

[Log]

I still hope Danielson wins the title at All In. Then, I hope he goes on to have some awesome defenses against all kinds of cool challengers. Then, I hope he drops the title to someone who benefits from being the guy that beat Bryan Danielson for the title. I also hope Danielson retires when he wants to retire and does so healthy and happy.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

10 hours ago, Go2Sleep said:

If TK wanted the belt on Danielson for a short reign, he should've had him win one of the Punk-injury tournaments.

Not to get too deep into the weeds, but a possible reason that didn't happen might be something to do with the politics around getting a new Moxley deal done at the time - the title may have been a bone thrown to sweeten the pot or something. This is all total conjecture/speculation on my part based on the conversation from Renee's pod around that period, where he talks about working without a deal, the Punk/Rocky III stuff, etc. so take with every grain of salt ever

[Matt D]

Lots of reasons why things happened in lots of ways. We know, for instance, that Khan had a plan in his head to go Omega > Page > Punk > MJF, with Stokely's group paired with MJF and MJF feuding with Punk. Not sure how Danielson would have fit in there. But he was probably penciled in a while ago. He was injured a few times in a few big ways with some real uncertainty, and there's also a sense that Birdie's request came as a surprise to everyone to some degree. 

[tbarrie]

7 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Lots of reasons why things happened in lots of ways. We know, for instance, that Khan had a plan in his head to go Omega > Page > Punk > MJF, with Stokely's group paired with MJF and MJF feuding with Punk.

Wait, did Khan already know he was getting Punk before Omega lost the title? My confused middle-aged brain recalls Punk coming in quite a bit later than that.

I always assumed the long-term plan had originally been Jericho->Moxley->Omega->Page->MJF, but Punk coming in changed things. I kind of thought MJF winning the title from Moxley was the plan getting back on track (before injuries and the friendship angle with Cole getting surprisingly over forced some booking on the fly again).

Of course, I have no evidence for any of that, so possibly I should be posting it in the conspiracy theories thread.

[Death From Above]

It's honestly wild how totally midcard the world title feels right now.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

5 minutes ago, Death From Above said:

It's honestly wild how totally midcard the world title feels right now.

You feel how you feel, so while I disagree, I'd be wrong to try and change your mind - but as a follow-up question to maybe help me understand a little more: do you feel that way because of the booking of the title, because of Swerve himself, or because of something totally different that I may be missing?

While I'm personally a fan of his, I could understand the idea of not being all in (lowercase) on Swerve - but we've been talking pretty heavy over the last couple days about one of the best ever in Danielson, about to wrestle for it in front of the promotion's second-largest crowd ever, in what could be the home stretch for his career - I don't mean any disrespect, but that doesn't feel awfully midcard to me.

[Death From Above]

I feel like it's just the way most of the hype is in MJF's direction. It's not Swerve himself who I like, and obviously Brian Danielson is fucking awesome. 

[SovietShooter]

4 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

as a follow-up question to maybe help me understand a little more: do you feel that way because of the booking of the title, because of Swerve himself, or because of something totally different that I may be missing?

Just my $0.02, but I am a firm believer that the promotion should be built around the top singles championship, and that everyone should be striving to obtain it in one way or another.  I don't think the AEW Championship has that gravitas to it right now, and I don't think it has anything to do with Swerve. I honestly think it might be the amount of other singles championships that have kinda diluted things. Too much focus on building up all these other secondary titles, and not enough Swerve coming across as the straw that stirs the drink. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

@SovietShooter@Death From AboveThanks, dudes. No argument from me, I was just legit curious about how you feel. I especially agree with you Nikita on the point about how everyone should be striving for it - it does seem at times like Hangman's character is the only one who got the memo on that. And yeah, "you get a belt, and you get a belt..." definitely doesn't help, either - there's probably not a soul left here who doesn't know my feelings on that.

[StuntmanCrowley]

I honestly miss the aura the belt had when Joe was champ.  

[Gramsci]

2 hours ago, tbarrie said:

Wait, did Khan already know he was getting Punk before Omega lost the title? My confused middle-aged brain recalls Punk coming in quite a bit later than that.

From what I remember, Tony Khan had conversations with Punk and Edge in 2019 when AEW started. Conversations with Punk continued and they reached a pre-agreement during the pandemic but they agreed that it made no sense for Punk to return to wrestling without the live crowd. I don't know what champions Tony Khan had in mind after Adam Page's reign, but I wouldn't be surprised if the possibility of eventually having CM Punk was a factor there.

[tbarrie]

2 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

@SovietShooter@Death From AboveThanks, dudes. No argument from me, I was just legit curious about how you feel. I especially agree with you Nikita on the point about how everyone should be striving for it - it does seem at times like Hangman's character is the only one who got the memo on that.

Even Hangman is more obsessed with Swerve not being world champion than with achieving it for himself. (Tangent: when they showed Hangman knocking on a door after losing to Danielson in the finals of the Owen, I thought at first it would be Danielson's locker room door, and Hanger was going to offer to help him in his title match with Swerve. Nothing wrong with the way they went, though.)

[Zakk_Sabbath]

4 minutes ago, tbarrie said:

Even Hangman is more obsessed with Swerve not being world champion than with achieving it for himself. (Tangent: when they showed Hangman knocking on a door after losing to Danielson in the finals of the Owen, I thought at first it would be Danielson's locker room door, and Hanger was going to offer to help him in his title match with Swerve. Nothing wrong with the way they went, though.)

True, that's actually a really good point, you're right about that - but to the other fellas' points earlier, at least the title is still at the center of the story there, even if it's not what you'd call a traditional "chase." I guess in retrospect, that example probably moreso fits the other idea mentioned, of 'level-of-importance' instead

[StuntmanCrowley]

I think Swerve's reign is suffering the way Hangman's reign did.  It's a secondary angle.  Hangman's reign was hurt by being second fiddle to Punk just existing in AEW and Swerve's reign is being hurt being second fiddle to the Elite stuff.  Now Swerve eventually was involved in it for Blood and Guts, but for a good bit he was spinning his wheels behind it.  Interesting in a way that the two guys who are having the best feud against one another are the ones who honestly have been let down by how their reign has been booked overall.