WWE TV - 3/6 - 3/12/2023

[porksweats]

It was good that Cena buried Theory because Theory should be buried simple as.

[Greggulator]

I did not see the Jey angle happening last night. I did not see Cody being the one to make the save. But if it gets us to “Cody gets Sami and KO to mend fences so all three can take down The Bloodline at WM” then I am all for it. That is a pretty elegant way to get Cody intertwined in the angle without bludgeoning the audience to death. I love that we are seeing every step unfold but done with just enough unpredictability to make every cliffhanger not the one we were expecting. 

Yes, this is the greatest storyline ever.  They have been building up to this for months and are setting up the biggest tag match in WWE history along with the final night main event. That is pretty fucking remarkable. 

[Craig H]

13 hours ago, Ziggy said:

Not the biggest Austin Theory fan but man Cena went early to mid 2000s HHH on the mic tonight. I understand Cena pretty much can say whatever he wants and deservedly so but he couldn't have a better way to babyface himself with the audience than bury his Wrestlemania opponent. At this point, it's not like even the older audience would boo Cena so I don't get why Cena would feel the need to bury him outside of that's his only style of promo

I know this wasn't Cena's reasoning, but if it were me, I would have buried him harder because Austin Theory fucking sucks and is nearly an S-Tier charisma and personality vacuum akin to Jonathan Gresham.

[Dolfan in NYC]

7 minutes ago, Craig H said:

I know this wasn't Cena's reasoning, but if it were me, I would have buried him harder because Austin Theory fucking sucks and is nearly an S-Tier charisma and personality vacuum akin to Jonathan Gresham.

 

 

[Raziel]

I mean, I'm not a Theory fan, but the "He has no heat" take is pretty inaccurate, at least if I'm going by reactions on the RAW Crew House Show loop (he's easily #2 behind Judgement Day in heel heat).

[John from Cincinnati]

The fun thing about the Cena promo is there are stories floating around from people like Apollo Crews and Becky Lynch recounting how Cena would ask them when they were younger "Who are you?" because he felt they didn't know who they were trying to be on screen. And this was like the most exaggerated, malicious version of that real habit. 

[Casey]

WWE using Cena to drag their anointed ones into the deep end to see how they fair isn't a new thing, no? He did it to Reigns in like, 2017 or whatever didn't he? I haven't watched the segment besides that one clip posted already, but it seems like Cena throwing shade to try and get Theory to come to that next level or whatever.

Or maybe Cena/Triple H or whoever actually doesn't see anything in Theory and they're burying him, leading to Cena winning the US title and then Jay White beats him on the post-WM RAW. WHO KNOWS!

Casual WWE viewer here, but count me into the group that doesn't care about Sami/KO vs the Usos. Yeah, it'll be a feel good moment, but years of WWE storytelling have taught me that KO is a snake that doesn't REALLY care about Sami as a friend. They'll win at 'Mania, and most people will be looking for the inevitable heel turn. Also I just flat out don't care about main event Jey Uso, but I understand why he'd be the logical one to bring about the downfall of the Bloodline. But, also, why join back up with his brother and beat down a beloved babyface if the plan is for Jey to be the one to bring it all down?

dunno, I just don't see the "greatest storyline ever" in this, especially with decades upon decades of storylines to put this up against. Who has really benefitted a ton from it? Jey Uso has had some main event matches, and might get a little run in it again, but he's not going to be a title contender for years to come. Sami's ceiling is clearly upper midcarder, it's not a Daniel Bryan 2014 situation where fan support forces them into a corner. Jimmy Uso is Jimmy Uso. Solo hasn't been around long enough to benefit, really. Kevin Owens' status hasn't really changed and probably won't. Cody Rhodes & Roman get the most out of it, I guess?

Maybe I'm wrong.

But, hey, I'm looking forward to that six woman tag. Hopefully the rumors are true and we get another Trish heel run post-Mania like she's said she wants.

[Craig H]

24 minutes ago, Raziel said:

I mean, I'm not a Theory fan, but the "He has no heat" take is pretty inaccurate, at least if I'm going by reactions on the RAW Crew House Show loop (he's easily #2 behind Judgement Day in heel heat).

People were also posting videos of crazy heat LA Knight was getting. It's probably fair to say house show crowds aren't all that reliable. Tons of live crowds still give loud reactions to Bray Wyatt, which is probably wrestling's version of the line from Groundhog Day - "People like blood sausage too."

Or who knows. Maybe they should get behind Knight and Theory even more.

[Craig H]

Oh, regarding Knight, I dig his act, but I wish he was in WWE years ago when it would have mattered more. There's something about his mannerisms and the way he talks that has always amused me.

[Raziel]

I'm more inclined to believe House Show reactions overall since they're the people that actually spend tons of money on the product and not throw conniptions on-line when the promotion doesn't book specifically to them.

[Craig H]

1 minute ago, Raziel said:

I'm more inclined to believe House Show reactions overall since they're the people that actually spend tons of money on the product and not throw conniptions on-line when the promotion doesn't book specifically to them.

That's a fair take. I still think Theory has nothing going on for him. He looks like a total dork and so when he was doing the stuff with Gargano it worked well. Now that he's trying to be super serious it just doesn't work. At least it doesn't work for me. I'd rather see them put some push behind Ford, but I've been wanting that since he was in NXT.

[EVA]

12 minutes ago, Casey said:

 

Casual WWE viewer here, but count me into the group that doesn't care about Sami/KO vs the Usos. Yeah, it'll be a feel good moment, but years of WWE storytelling have taught me that KO is a snake that doesn't REALLY care about Sami as a friend. They'll win at 'Mania, and most people will be looking for the inevitable heel turn. Also I just flat out don't care about main event Jey Uso, but I understand why he'd be the logical one to bring about the downfall of the Bloodline. But, also, why join back up with his brother and beat down a beloved babyface if the plan is for Jey to be the one to bring it all down?

dunno, I just don't see the "greatest storyline ever" in this, especially with decades upon decades of storylines to put this up against. Who has really benefitted a ton from it? Jey Uso has had some main event matches, and might get a little run in it again, but he's not going to be a title contender for years to come. Sami's ceiling is clearly upper midcarder, it's not a Daniel Bryan 2014 situation where fan support forces them into a corner. Jimmy Uso is Jimmy Uso. Solo hasn't been around long enough to benefit, really. Kevin Owens' status hasn't really changed and probably won't. Cody Rhodes & Roman get the most out of it, I guess?

Maybe I'm wrong.

I think you hit on some important parts here regarding Sami’s story right now.

Storytelling is about change. If nothing changes, you haven’t really told a story. Not a good one anyway.

And when you look at where we’re at right now…As a protagonist, Sami has utterly failed to affect any change in his story. Couldn’t beat Roman and take his title. Couldn’t bring Jey over to his side. Functionally, the Bloodline is the exact same as it was before Sami ever started sniffing around. Nothing has changed as a result of his actions.

As it stands, best case for Sami’s resolution looks to be him finally patching it up with Owens* and they win the tag titles. But, as you mentioned, this would be the umpteenth time those guys have reunited and broken up and reunited and broken up. And more than likely they’ll do it again before their careers are down. Sami and Owens reuniting, narratively, does not feel like meaningful change—it feels like them playing out the same old pattern. Which doesn’t feel like a great payoff to a year-long investment in a story.

I hate that I feel like I have to put this disclaimer on any even slightly critical take on Sami/Bloodline, but I really enjoyed the 2nd act of this story. But they are REALLY struggling to bring it home in the 3rd act, IMO. Most likely due to a combination of 1) this being a supremely weird (in a good way) story that’s difficult to pay off in a manner that fits into a traditional pro wrestling box, and 2) the most fulfilling outcomes don’t fit into how WWE wants to present their company/Mania, nor how Roman and the Uso’s want to be booked.

 

*And I love KO, but that poor guy has been booked like shit throughout this whole thing.

[Dog]

In pro wrestling (and comics), storytelling is about the illusion of change. Maybe you have to figure your character out at first, but once you get there, you don't make any major modifications because 1) if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and 2) you need that brand identity that will make people want to see you now and then in the future, for the nostalgia. Rocky Maivia transformed into the Rock, but only made minor situational tweaks after that. After John Byrne cracked the She-Hulk nut, she kept all those qualities, even reverting back to them after her transformation in Aaron's Avengers. Same thing. 

Cody vs. Roman and KO/Sami vs. Usos was always going to be the end result. We all called it, like, 8 months ago. But how they got there was way different than usual, to the point that some people even started to doubt that obvious endpoint. That's great and, in the WWE, exceptionally novel. When the destination is clear, you'd better make the journey matter. 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Dog

[DJ Hero Morganti]

I'm just glad that it can easily be inferred that Jimmy is Jey's shatter point.  He didn't choose Roman over Sami, he chose Jimmy. And Solo.  I can actually see a world where Sami gets through to Jey (through taking the tag titles) which lets Jey bring down Roman.  Which brings us full circle and starts the next leg if the journey

[Raziel]

4 minutes ago, DJ Hero Morganti said:

I'm just glad that it can easily be inferred that Jimmy is Jey's shatter point.  He didn't choose Roman over Sami, he chose Jimmy. And Solo.  I can actually see a world where Sami gets through to Jey (through taking the tag titles) which lets Jey bring down Roman.  Which brings us full circle and starts the next leg if the journey

I mean, Jimmy has BEEN Jey's shatter point.  The whole Bloodline started by Roman using hurting Jimmy to eventually get Jey to give up and buy in.  That it lead to their greatest success at a team made it easy to look past that.  Once that starts falling apart, and it's already started, that's how you eventually split them up.  The Bloodline is an at-their-height Horsemen that Roman built to protect the title, but related so they in theory won't split up, but Jey has never bought fully in, and that's his story.

 

As for Sami, so larger perspective:  This time last year, Sami was heading into getting body slammed by Wee Man and getting pinned via comically oversized mousetrap to put over Johnny Knoxville 15 years past his relevancy.  Sami's current position is several orders of magnitude better and it's not an argument.

[Infinit]

I can't believe that Cena was given the ok to bring up piped in crowd noise. Doesn't that bury the whole WWE product? In terms of people who weren't really aware of piped in noise, now noticing how often WWE uses it?

[A_K]

The same crowd that made goo-goo eyes at AEW's children's playbook booking, utterly oblivious to the very predictable descent into ham-fisted carnyness that shedded hundreds of thousands of viewers by the month in darkened venues (and sometimes even by the hour during the show of late), somehow finding fault with the best, most mature story told in years and years that has racked millions of viewers week after week to pop after pop from arenas full of people. Figures. Fetishists will be fetishists. 

As one who thought the last 6-9 months of Cody's run in AEW was utter self-serving nonsense, he/they have done incredibly well with the reinvention here. They head into a main event / pre-main event scene on the tail of this storyline with 7 (+) convincing characters all with their own attributes, all extremely over in their own way, all of whom will have countless avenues to explore after WM is done. Now that's how you structure a high end product and tailor your top of the card offering in a way that evolves character and commercials while offering a sustainable way forward. The numbers do not lie.

Edited March 7, 2023 by A_K

[Infinit]

Numbers don't lie? Have Raw ratings gone up due to Cody? Wasn't Mania sold out before the Rumble? Alot of the measurable successes of the product are due to the WWE brand.

[Casey]

I like how you brought up AEW even though nobody criticizing the Bloodline story mentioned that company.

Hopefully this blows your mind, but none of AEW’s stories for the past four years have been the greatest storyline ever, either. Big ol’ shock for you to find out, I’m sure.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Casey

[EVA]

56 minutes ago, Dog said:

In pro wrestling (and comics), storytelling is about the illusion of change. Maybe you have to figure your character out at first, but once you get there, you don't make any major modifications because 1) if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and 2) you need that brand identity that will make people want to see you now and then in the future, for the nostalgia. Rocky Maivia transformed into the Rock, but only made minor situational tweaks after that. After John Byrne cracked the She-Hulk nut, she kept all those qualities, even reverting back to them after her transformation in Aaron's Avengers. Same thing. 

Cody vs. Roman and KO/Sami vs. Usos was always going to be the end result. We all called it, like, 8 months ago. But how they got there was way different than usual, to the point that some people even started to doubt that obvious endpoint. That's great and, in the WWE, exceptionally novel. When the destination is clear, you'd better make the journey matter. 

I think you’re talking about something very different from what I am, but this is a very interesting thought nonetheless!

[Dog]

21 minutes ago, EVA said:

I think you’re talking about something very different from what I am, but this is a very interesting thought nonetheless!

 

1 hour ago, EVA said:

Storytelling is about change. If nothing changes, you haven’t really told a story.

I fundamentally disagree with this. Storytelling is about the journey, not the destination. If you end up where you started, but felt something along the way, that's a good story.

[peterien]

I didn’t think Theory did that bad, sure Cena dragged him into the deep but it wasn’t as if he was stumbling over his words or fucking forgot what to say. 

He needs something different other than being generic heel #1202, maybe these 3 weeks leading to Mania are where he finds it. 

[EVA]

17 minutes ago, Dog said:

 

I fundamentally disagree with this. Storytelling is about the journey, not the destination. If you end up where you started, but felt something along the way, that's a good story.

Thanks for clarifying what you were getting at. To relate to it in those fundamental terms, my position would be that both the journey and the destination are equally important to a story. Bungling Sami in act 3 certainly doesn’t retroactively take away from all the fun we had in act 2, but it definitely diminishes the overall story, and especially whatever catharsis remains to be had.

[Niners Fan in CT]

7 hours ago, EVA said:

I love how The Greatest Storyline Ever has not only bungled the outcome that fans wanted to see the most (Sami beating Roman), but has now also bungled the outcome that fans wanted to see the second most (Jey choosing Sami over Roman), and is now cruising towards the outcome that fans seem to care the least about (Sami and Kevin reuniting for the dozenth time to win the meaningless tag titles while nothing about the Bloodline changes).

Masterful.

Jey choosing Sami Zayn over his own brother would be beyond stupid Lol...   Now.. Jey turning on Roman at some point, yeah sure..   that should happen 

Fans doing fantasy booking and then not getting what they fantasy booked is not bad writing. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

2 hours ago, Casey said:

But, also, why join back up with his brother and beat down a beloved babyface if the plan is for Jey to be the one to bring it all down?

Roman said pretty clearly that "if Jey isn't back with The Bloodline this Friday, I'm blaming Jimmy..."