Just Dave Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 Wheeler Yuta; extremely my shit. No spoilers... the match hasn't even started yet. I just think he fucking rules. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimbra Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 If you aren't watching maybe, uh, be careful about looking for gifs from the ladder match. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zendragon Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 15 minutes ago, Zimbra said: If you aren't watching maybe, uh, be careful about looking for gifs from the ladder match. Spoiler Dante got stretchered out with towels over his lower body, His brother, Maria and Taven seemed very concerned. He did land weird on the sunset flip so he might have been hurt before the table spot. This seems really bad and why I’d be fine with no more ladder matches 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimbra Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 7 minutes ago, zendragon said: Reveal hidden contents Dante got stretchered out with towels over his lower body, His brother, Maria and Taven seemed very concerned. He did land weird on the sunset flip so he might have been hurt before the table spot. This seems really bad and why I’d be fine with no more ladder matches Spoiler Really looked like a compound fracture. Foot was pointing the other way. Just terrible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordi the former AEW fan Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 (edited) Fuck this shit. Why would you deny your fans BOTH chances for big cathartic emotional moment? We can't get what we want ALL the time, and we shouldn't.. but this was the wrong time to teach us that lesson. That was some Vince-level troll booking. I am legit done with AEW/ROH for a while. Edit: With a moment to breathe, I am surprised how bummed out I am by the results of two pro wrestling matches. I guess I'm spoiled. But it's legit how I feel. I don't even want to watch Spring Break now. Why the hell would anyone CHOOSE to book those two matches to end that way? Edited April 1, 2023 by Gordlow 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphman 3000 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Gordlow said: Fuck this shit. Why would you deny your fans both chances for big cathartic emotional moment? We can't get what we want ALL the time, but this was the wrong time to teach us that lesson. That was some Vince-level troll booking. I am legit done with AEW/ROH for a while. Yeah I enjoyed the 1-count kickout as a callback to Kingston winning the CHIKARA Grand Championship, but then....fart Edited April 1, 2023 by Dolphman 3000 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizium Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 Crowd for the most part sucked, which dampened the show, but I enjoyed every match save the ladder match. Even before the injury, ladder matches are just played out to me. Take a couple years off from them so the spots seem fresh again. Main or Pure were my matches of the night, but hopefully Athena-Yuka doesn't get forgotten about, that shit ruled. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanChessgame Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 The presentation of the show looked really nice. Ian, Caprice, and Nigel all had a great balance of passionate enthusiasm and expert knowledge throughout the evening. I only caught the end of the Preshow but it was good to see The Righteous back. I hope Bateman and Vita VonStar come back as well. Vikingo has gotten a lot of buzz as of late and I didn't see him wrestle until a few weeks ago. I've seen him about five times since and just don't see the hype everyone else does. Yes, he hits a lot of impressive, agile spots in an effortless manner but that's about it. Some people compared him to seeing Rey Jr. for the first time in the mid 90s but he reminded me of the first few times I saw Teddy Hart - hitting a bunch of impressive spots while his opponent just stands or lays there and not much in between. In the matches I saw he also hit the same ones (630 to the table outside, the imploding dragonrana, etc) and yes, everyone has their signature spots, but I didn't see him going with the flow and hitting his moves as counters or when he had the opportunity like Rey or other Lucha guys would. That's not to say I don't think he's good, I've just been more impressed by some of his contemporaries. Kommander especially I've dug in the past year or two seeing him hit all of his crazy rope walk moves. The match was a hot opener and really won the crowd over. The six man tag match was a nice blend of the smaller team hitting a lot of quick moves against much bigger opponents but not being able to keep them down. Kaun and Toa continue to look like beasts. Athena/Yuka was fine but I'd watched this week's ROH show right before seeing this and thought the Athena/Emi match was much better. Samoa Joe and Mark Briscoe told such an amazing story. This honestly could have been the main event with all the little things they did - Mark instinctively going for the tag, trying to hit his go-to moves on Joe but not quite being able to, Joe being his usual monster self, the family at ringside, etc. With the night and this match especially being a tribute to Jay I was genuinely stunned when Joe ended up choking Mark out. It made me wonder if he was going to make some kind of speech afterwards or if they've got bigger plans for Mark now. Then I also wonder if Mark didn't want to win in the spirit of Jay being such a giving guy and wanting to elevate others. Tanahashi/Garcia was good with a lot of great dickhead heel mannerisms by Garcia. I feel kind of weird praising the ladder match in hindsight. Ladder matches are a dime a dozen these days and guys are probably always feeling pressured to go out and top the one before. Sometimes it leads to really interesting spots getting pulled out that might look cool but are really dangerous and have unpleasant consequences and other times there are just clusterfucks where you can't keep up with anything. I was really enjoying this one with there being all kinds of wild stuff going on and wondering when Schrodinger's Pile of Tables would come into play and the destroyer through it looked pretty gnarly. They didn't include that in the replay and looking at a clip of it online...yikes, the Martin Brothers really can't catch a break, can they. I'm not sure about the Lucha Bros being champs. I guess they're somewhat of a name that might draw viewers, but there are plenty of other ROH Originals or younger teams that would benefit more from the rub. Even though the Pure Title rules have never appealed much to me, Youngboy Yuta and Shibata had a nice, snug match. Again the title change is a bit odd as it can't be cheap or easy to bring in someone from Japan just to defend it periodically. The world title match was the selling point of the show for me and it delivered most of what I'd hoped to see. You really felt like both guys were struggling to hit moves on eachother; not in a sandbagging type of way but in a manner that lead you to believe they were legit struggling at countering one another's strength and technical skill. Simple yet painful moves looked like they took effort to pull off and both guys sold as they needed to. That gut wrench off the apron looked especially painful. I was a bit surprised at the ending. They'd built Eddie up as someone who can't win when it counts which made me think he'd finally go over here, but once again he lost clean. Allying him with Shibata gives some more momentum to his beef with the BCC but I really think they had a shot at a great moment here and didn't go for it, especially after Mark lost. Afterwards we got the fired up "I may not believe wrestling but I believe -this guy-" type promo that makes him come off legit. Solid show overall. This combined with the really good weekly tv shows ROH has life left in it yet. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimbra Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 I think Eddie losing was the wrong choice, but I understand it. Putting Mark in that match at all, let alone having him lose, is just malpractice. Mixed feelings about the show in general but at least Yuta/Shibata fucked and the main was excellent. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEAN Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 I lost my running commentary because I am an idiot. I will summarize! Komander and El Hijo del Vikingo- JESUS MOTHERFUCKING CHRIST! The Embassy vs AR Fox/ Blake Christian/ Metalik- that was pretty good! ATHENA vs Yuka Sakazaki! Yuka is good fighting as a sympathetic babyface. ATHENA is a FORCE OF NATURE. Samoa Joe vs Mark Briscoe- GREAT FUCKING MATCH. Mark Briscoe should have won and I got a little emotional postmatch. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Daniel Garcia- GARCIA IS THE NEW JEFF JARRETT! WHAT A HEAT MACHINE! I secretly don't like Tanahashi, but he was fine. The tagteam ladder match- The Kingdom should have won. Wheeler Yuta vs Shibata- Shibata is so fucking GREAT! NEW PURE CHAMPION! SO FUCKING AWESOME! Claudio Castagnoli vs Eddie Kingston- Claudio is a MONSTER. Eddie is great working underneath. GREAT nearfalls. That match was fucking great! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphman 3000 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, Zimbra said: I think Eddie losing was the wrong choice, but I understand it. Putting Mark in that match at all, let alone having him lose, is just malpractice. The after-match felt like a retirement moment for Mark or something - I didn't like it 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, HumanChessgame said: Even though the Pure Title rules have never appealed much to me, Youngboy Yuta and Shibata had a nice, snug match. Again the title change is a bit odd as it can't be cheap or easy to bring in someone from Japan just to defend it periodically. Did the LA Dojo for NJPW close down? If not then I think Shibata still runs it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Dynamite Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 (edited) Booking big sad finishes in front of a helplessly dead crowd doesn't bother me. They're storylines that can be extended for a few months and if the current ROH plan is to give people something to subscribe for that's alright. Good guys can't always win. I thought the Mark loss in particular was a brave and effective choice. The sheer ignorance around the spot that injured Dante Martin soured the show for me much, much more. Edited April 1, 2023 by John E. Dynamite 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanChessgame Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Eivion said: Did the LA Dojo for NJPW close down? If not then I think Shibata still runs it. Ah, I had no idea and just figured he lived in Japan. If he spends most of his time stateside then it makes sense, especially if this helps further the ROH/NJPW relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Dynamite Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 26 minutes ago, Gordlow said: Fuck this shit. Why would you deny your fans BOTH chances for big cathartic emotional moment? We can't get what we want ALL the time, and we shouldn't.. but this was the wrong time to teach us that lesson. That was some Vince-level troll booking. I am legit done with AEW/ROH for a while. Edit: With a moment to breathe, I am surprised how bummed out I am by the results of two pro wrestling matches. I guess I'm spoiled. But it's legit how I feel. I don't even want to watch Spring Break now. Why the hell would anyone CHOOSE to book those two matches to end that way? There is no version of the world where Mark Briscoe is not completely on-board with that finish. Never mind that Eddie Kingston is a Toshiaki Kawada mark that understands the importance of a slow burn (probably to a fault). Continue to breathe, you'll be alright. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizium Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 15 minutes ago, DEAN said: Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Daniel Garcia- GARCIA IS THE NEW JEFF JARRETT! WHAT A HEAT MACHINE! I secretly don't like Tanahashi, but he was fine. Mentioned in the discord, but Garcia worked his ass off to get a crowd that seemed not to care about much, into it. His defiant yell of Sports Entertainer killed me. I think it was the right call, with how limited Ace is these days, to have DG carry the match before losing to a couple signature moves 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphman 3000 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 7 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said: There is no version of the world where Mark Briscoe is not completely on-board with that finish. Never mind that Eddie Kingston is a Toshiaki Kawada mark that understands the importance of a slow burn (probably to a fault). Continue to breathe, you'll be alright. Entire Briscoe family being ringside makes me think the booking changed at some point - made me uneasy like Shawn going over Bulldog in front of Davey's sick sister at One Night Only 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octopus Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 5 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said: There is no version of the world where Mark Briscoe is not completely on-board with that finish. Never mind that Eddie Kingston is a Toshiaki Kawada mark that understands the importance of a slow burn (probably to a fault). Continue to breathe, you'll be alright. If my friend, Michael B Gordon, wants to stop breathing than he can stop breathing. (although low key I hope Kingston keeps Kawadaing until he has a big title match in New York or something and I cry). 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel Moneghetti Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 I’m generally not hypersensitive about wrestlers taking bumps, but I don’t enjoy ladder matches much anymore, I’m kind of surprised people aren’t injured more often in them. You can’t control every mishap when someone tips you off a 20 ft ladder and dumps you to the floor or someone tries to do a head drop spot on a platform built with a couple broken ladders. Curious about the Shibata win. Guessing he drops the Pure title back to someone in BCC. Could we get Danielson- Shibata in 2023? That would be unlikely. I don’t really dig BCC as a unit even though I like all four guys well enough, so seeing them all over two shows probably won’t win me over 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFistsJustFlips Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 I am so bummed about Dante's injury. It was almost as bad as Sid. A very talented young man may have just lost his career and his quality of life going forward. My thoughts go out to him. AEW / ROH need to do something about the chaos of their ladder match structures. This is second time there has been catastrophic injury in one. The other being Fenix snapping his arm on an apron chokeslam. The agents need to find a way to reign in the chaos and bring a little more safety to the dangerous spots. I understand the booking in hindsight. Think when Angle worked Benoit at the 2003 Royal Rumble. That loss is what catapulted him into his run to the title next year. With that in mind a stand out performance loss for Mark can make sense, if that's where they're going. Doubly so if they keep filling the heat balloon with Claudio. Giving some bad finishes in service to an ultimate great finish is definitely acceptable. But I am not at all confident that is where it's heading. And if not just baffling to have two giant heel finishes like that. Even more baffling is whatever that ending was. Shibata giving no shits and wanting nothing to do with a run in. Kingston kind of just swearing for the sake of it. Just odd and in no way did it reinflate the crowd to send them home in an okay mood. Heel endings are necessary. But sometimes it's better to end with the heat than try to send the crowd home happy and miss the mark. To end on a positive note I do like the simplistic title designs they've introduced. Just gotta get new TV & Six Man belts made. The titles all being silver is a nice touch for the number two company under the TK Umbrella. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 I do think "wasting" Kingston's big title win in ROH as opposed to a bigger stage would be a potential waste, although his past several months of booking has been so bad that I don't know that we'll ever get there. With Mark... I'll be honest with you, in most situations if you were to ask me "should he be TV champ?" my answer would be no not really, he's both kinda advanced in mileage if not years and he was never the singles worker his brother was. The exception would be right now for the obvious reasons, so even if it is in the interest of a longer story it's still the wrong move. The win now would have meant something that a win later never would. It is odd, barring utterly stunning results in the main matches at Mania I think WWE is clearly gonna have the better booked big show of the weekend which is let's say not usually the expected result. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 (edited) What a strange show. Not at all what I expected. Seemed like one of those dull Monday Night crowds, except there were no long talk segments for them to get excited about. I can't recall who had just won the match, but there was a great shot of some a guy in the crowd yawning behind the winner that kinda summed up this crowd. That said, I'm sure our dude @zendragon was having some fun. Pre-show was good. Takeshita-Willie Mack was particularly good, but felt pretty disjointed at points. I think Mack might have really hurt himself on that tope, but he's also a really great seller. Willow v Alize was good. So to Cobb and the Hot Sauce. Stu v J was fun, but the crowd could not have cared less. Same goes for the odd return of the Righteous. Dark Order v Dutch and Vincent, tell me more. I liked what I saw of Vincent in Impact. Dutch seems like a neat weirdo. I like the idea of Uno and Stu getting a run in ROH. Vikingo v Kommander felt like undiluted Lucha Libre and a great showcase. Six man Tag match suggests Brian Cage will fight another Honor-able day. Athena's entrance was magnificent and a buzz enhancer. She brought her best to the match and it was good if a bit off at points. Samoa Joe v Mark Briscoe was excellent! I was as shocked as anybody by that finish, but LA didn't deserve the big moment and I'm happy it was saved for a later date. I think I was also kinda happy to be surprised. @Dean I take your lead on a lot of calls, but no more firmly than your thoughts here... 1 hour ago, DEAN said: Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Daniel Garcia- GARCIA IS THE NEW JEFF JARRETT! WHAT A HEAT MACHINE! I secretly don't like Tanahashi, but he was fine. And yeah, the Kingdom should have won. It felt like Rey Fenix was non-existent most of that match. I'm with everybody here that says FUCK LADDER MATCHES! Call a moratorium on this dated needless bullshit immediately. I did think the match started well and appreciated no ladder in the ring to be slowly climbed upon (or not at all as per usual and seen here later in the match). The Aussies are slowly becoming stars. Shibata-Wheeler was a highlight. Jeers again to that LA Mania crowd with seemingly no knowledge of Shibata. I loved Shibata's dominance here and the surprise win. I think we're getting a lot of rematches out of this show, and I'm happy for it. Again, this Mania crowd did not deserve anything more and I applaud the choice not to give it to them. That said, even this dull crowd couldn't sit on their hands for the magic of Eddie KIngston and Claudio Castignoli. At least not down the line to the exciting finish. There was a lot of weird timing and production on this show. No more strange than that closing square off. And then cut off of Kingston. There was also a lot of bad camera work throughout this show. Heads were cut off, moves were missed. Bad switches. On a better note, as expected, commentary was excellent tonight. Riccaboni forces shit a bit too often and voices some corny sells, but he's generally alright. Caprice and Nigel were fantastic! Again strange show and didn't meet my lofty expectations, but there was some great work and I didn't not have a good time. Edited April 1, 2023 by HarryArchieGus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphman 3000 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 1 minute ago, NoFistsJustFlips said: I understand the booking in hindsight. Think when Angle worked Benoit at the 2003 Royal Rumble. That loss is what catapulted him into his run to the title next year. With that in mind a stand out performance loss for Mark can make sense, if that's where they're going. Yeah but you have to tell that story and not just Calvinball everything after the fact - the Jay Briscoe Memorial Ladder Match should have had Mark on commentary so he could raise the winner's hands to put a cap on his tag-team career (since reports are that's what he wants to do). Leaving him alone in the ring with the tag belt after losing to Joe was just depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, username said: With Mark... I'll be honest with you, in most situations if you were to ask me "should he be TV champ?" my answer would be no not really, he's both kinda advanced in mileage if not years and he was never the singles worker his brother was. The exception would be right now for the obvious reasons, so even if it is in the interest of a longer story it's still the wrong move. The win now would have meant something that a win later never would. Jay was clearly one of the best to ever do it and definitely overshadowed the younger Briscoe, but Mark's clearly an incredible talent on his own. Everything he's done since his brother's passing, in ring and on the mic, has been excellent. I was here for the big win tonight, but 'later' seems more like a definite then a never. I like keeping Joe and Claudio strong and doing the title changes where they can be the focused upon story coming out of the weekend. Surprisingly (and I like being suprised) it seems like a pretty smart call. Especially considering this crowd. Edited April 1, 2023 by HarryArchieGus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 I completely missed Dante's landing on that spot. I just saw the GIF and feel gutted. Sending best wishes to Dante Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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