Ring of Honor - 2023

[evanknight]

On 4/11/2023 at 4:24 PM, HarryArchieGus said:

Yeah, the atmosphere of these half empty split tapings has thus far been a drag compared to the Universal Studios shows. The lack of promos over the live tapings has also been a major disappointment. Ppl need to get to know these guys and the guys they do know what their motivations are. Those first few weeks had an exceptional flow simply going back and forth from match to promo. I'd like to think there's a reason why they've gone the last couple weeks with the far less appealing Dark formula of match, match, match, but I hope they correct the course ASAP. I'm not sure the secondary characters need storylines as opposed to simple challenges week to week during promos, but maybe that's what you were driving at? 

I was saying that those paying for a streaming service are invested enough to care about the product beyond the top stars. There should be pure rules matches for 3-6 ranked type of guys fighting to get to the top. And there should be a women’s dues with no one holding a belt. 
 

Like give me a reason to care about sky blue or the workhorsemen. I want to see more Coleman sit downs and motivations across the lineup  

 

[HarryArchieGus]

Yes!!! Caprice needs to get the bottom of ROH's locker room tensions on a more consistent basis. I too loved the Claudio-Eddie sitdown. And Caprice played his part wonderfully. Caprice is just fucking great. It may not work as I envision it, but I look forward to the day when Caprice has to stand up to some shitheel fucking with Riccaboni, and take it to the ring. Piper-Solie style. Or how bout Nigel and Caprice getting heated up and having an impromptu? 

Re: Anthony Henry and JD Drake
The Workhorsemen need a remotely decent presentation for MORE reason to care. However, I'd say one reason to care would be their stellar in-ring capablities as seen on display this week against Shibata/Coughlin. But their colourful costumes are doing them no favours - JD in particular. The previous Cargo worker pants look was at least better. 

I think I agree with you on the 'Women's dues' but not sure exactly what you're saying? Minor feuds building to the title matches? Cause Definitely to that. And yeah, I'd also like to see some bouts with guys facing off for a Pure 'Championship Opportunity'. Angelico in particular needs to find his way into that mix.

[Technico Support]

Not that I mind at all the weekly tribute to late 90s Lita but damn, can we do a Kickstarter to get Athena some tights that fit?  

[Matt D]

So this week we're getting...

• Samoa Joe vs Colt Cabana for the ROH title
• Hijo del Vikingo vs Gringo Loco for the AAA title
• Athena vs Heather Reckless in a Proving Ground match
• Takeshita vs Moriarty
• Silver/Reynolds vs Karter/Johnson
• Penta vs Comoroto
• Kingdom vs Andretti/Martin
• Willow vs Robyn Renegade
• Iron Savages squash
• Brian Cage squash
• Lancer Archer squash

And once you get past the top two matches, it's very "Dark"-y. I don't get why Archer or Silver/Reynolds are there. That kind of thing. Wrestling still looks good but, we can't get studio tapings back quick enough.

[DEAN]

Lee Moriarty vs Konosuke Takeshita was fucking GREAT!  El Hijo de Vikingo vs Gringo Loco was FUCKING INSANE.

[DreamBroken]

Fun tag opener. Thought Robyn Renegade looked great against Willow, commentary was hilarious there. Love seeing the Murderhawk in ROH, fun 2 minute squash. Athena is always great, even in another 2 minute squash, her matches consistently feel must see. Comoroto looked solid against Pentagon. Takeshita rules, and as mentioned Vikingo/Gringo was indeed fucking insane! Vikingo nailed every spot and Gringo definitely felt like a 'get signed' type of performance. Joe/Cabana was quick but a cool little match for the main event, liking Joe's killer reign. 

[HarryArchieGus]

Fun show. Yes, Vikingo-Gringo Loco insanity! So great to see Loco get a little promo time too. I love 'I lost' promos in general (there should be more). Gringo's promo was short but specially sweet. I'm delighted to hear we're gonna see more of him going forward. Another great hand - speaking of which, where's Slim J at!? Oh man, Takeshita-Moriarty was sooo good! This tired Milwaukee crowd didn't deserive it tho. I hope if they continue to tape before Dynamite that the crowds start getting into the shows. Dug the opening tag (The Kingdom are so fucking good), the Robyn-Willow contest and the Cage semi-squash. Happy to see Archer in the ROH fold, but still feeling a bit of fatigue from his middling squashes (prefer Lance in competitive bouts). Maybe if he has to continue with the squashing he should watch and study Athena to see how ya do it that much more effectively. Such a fun beating on Heather Reckless. Also happy to see Reynolds/Silver get a run here. They're such a terrific team, and this seems like a good fit for them. Nice bout on the show with the Karter/Johnson duo. And really enjoyed Penta working Big Nick. Much less enjoyable was the Iron Savages bout. They're certainly fine, and well worth developing, but they'd be smart to do away with their goofier offense including that farty finisher. Joe-Cabana in the Main Event was a treat and everything I hoped it would be. Cabana's promo unfortunately felt like somebody quickly going thru a radio station ID. C'mon Colt use your time more wisely. This was another fun ROH show, but I'd still like to see MORE PROMOS and a few video packages. Maybe a Gene Mean style Update segment somewhere in there? Or some highlight packages of certain talent and previous events. There's a lot of lesser known talent that are in need of being re-introduced to these waiting-for-Dynamite crowds. There is still far too much match-match-match going on here, but again, regardless, very much enjoying these shows. This one in particular had some very fun stuff. Viva Caprice and Riccaboni! 

[Go2Sleep]

I really liked Vikingo/Loco. Vikingo definitely has 96 Rey vibe, and this match showcased it better than the Komander match. He hit some crazy stuff most people haven't seen, but he also got to work from underneath some and showcase some decent striking. Much like Rey having good technical skills, it may not be what people want to see the most, but it's important to fill out matches so they aren't collections of stunts with nothing holding them together, which get old very quickly. More matches like this and his fanbase in the US will grow very quickly.

Only minor nitpick is Vikingo shouldn't have exposed the business with the catch spot. Not exposed in the sense that someone his size shouldn't be able to do that spot because he obviously did it in plain sight, but exposing that every wrestler is super strong and it's nothing special when a big guy catches someone out of the air. He can do enough cool stuff, save some things for the guys who can't do springboard 630s.

[Matt D]

I feel like @HarryArchieGus and I should high five when we finish these. It's a lot of wrestling!

• I liked Kingdom vs Andretti/Darius more than I was figuring. Maybe Andretti's stuff just works better in a tag setting. None of it ever feels impactful enough to really do much harm for some reason, but in a tag match it only has to go half way if that makes any sense. I finally saw something in Darius here. There IS more oomph to his stuff than Dante. He has a bit more bulk, a bit more momentum. He should lean into that when Dante comes back.
• I like Robyn's reactions in the Willow match, just selling she was staggered or on dream street. Not much else to say.
• The Archer squash was good. The Cage squash was probably a more complete match but I don't care much about Jett (the crowd kind of did) so I would have rather just seen Cage run him over and the two of them walk past each other like Slaughter and Sheik in between matches.
• Athena was fun against Reckless, playing up her size and having fun with her and Reckless making her pay for it... right until she didn't. Athena gave just enough and then she killed her dead.
• Reynolds and Silver remain the only guys who don't follow normal tag rules I tolerate. Bad shake for Johnson to go heel and then the Factory break up. It looks like Karter will be with Clayton now. I'm not sure what to do with Johnson. Honestly, he'd be a good Bullet Club Gold guy, right? Can anyone else see that?
• Hey, I kind of liked Penta vs Comoroto! Penta's fine when he's not in tag matches where he's not following tag rules. And Comoroto was really playing it up. The big where Comoroto lost one arm and kept fighting and then lost the other arm and was just a punching bag was pretty funny stuff.
• So I am not unfair. I am not unfeeling. I am not a monster, nor am I dogmatic. I call it like I see it. For Takeshita, when he is driving the action, that tends to mean a lot of bullshit that doesn't resonate. He has a ton of tools and skills and strong points when it comes to execution and size and presence and here it all clicked. The match vs Moriarty is one of my favorite Takeshita matches ever. They went fast early and then leaned hard into the storytelling. I thought he did a great job selling the arm. The comebacks felt warranted and weighty and the finishing stretch was very good. Moriarty really hung in there too and probably centered the match. He's had a good twelve months when you think about it. I hope it pays off for him.
• Iron Savages were kind of doing the Heavy Machinery thing. It worked but it was weird. But it worked. ... But it was weird.
• Vikingo vs Gringo Loco was unquestionably fun. I think if they did half the spots and made them all mean twice as much it'd be better, but at some point it's like the joke that goes on too long, and then goes on so long that it becomes funny again. The stuff is so over the top and Gringo at least helps it feel like it's not just an exhibition but something of a struggle at least. I don't know if they completely nailed it but the momentum shifts were good. If it was more back and forth than nothing that they hit would have seemed like it actually did anything, so the balance wasn't bad. I liked Gringo playing to the crowd. It was his moment. He should have milked it like he did. His post match promo was very good too.
• Colt never shows me much anymore with his opportunities. I wish he'd maybe lean more into rat boy banana peel sneaky style stuff? And he does a little, just enough to make me wish he did it a lot more. Ian referenced Les Kellett and I'd love to see that actually play out in practice. Joe looked like a beast though.

Another pretty good show but it needs more direction! Tapings are in early May and they can't come soon enough.

[DEAN]

31 minutes ago, Matt D said:

• Vikingo vs Gringo Loco was unquestionably fun. I think if they did half the spots and made them all mean twice as much it'd be better, but at some point it's like the joke that goes on too long, and then goes on so long that it becomes funny again. The stuff is so over the top and Gringo at least helps it feel like it's not just an exhibition but something of a struggle at least. I don't know if they completely nailed it but the momentum shifts were good. If it was more back and forth than nothing that they hit would have seemed like it actually did anything, so the balance wasn't bad. I liked Gringo playing to the crowd. It was his moment. He should have milked it like he did. His post match promo was very good too.

Yeah, that was a real wrestling match that ALSO started off with that Standing Shoulder Rana thing I've never seen before ever in my FIFTY-FOUR years of watching wrestling.  That was insane.  And I'm very old.

[JLowe]

2 hours ago, Go2Sleep said:

I really liked Vikingo/Loco. Vikingo definitely has 96 Rey vibe, and this match showcased it better than the Komander match. He hit some crazy stuff most people haven't seen, but he also got to work from underneath some and showcase some decent striking. Much like Rey having good technical skills, it may not be what people want to see the most, but it's important to fill out matches so they aren't collections of stunts with nothing holding them together, which get old very quickly. More matches like this and his fanbase in the US will grow very quickly.

Only minor nitpick is Vikingo shouldn't have exposed the business with the catch spot. Not exposed in the sense that someone his size shouldn't be able to do that spot because he obviously did it in plain sight, but exposing that every wrestler is super strong and it's nothing special when a big guy catches someone out of the air. He can do enough cool stuff, save some things for the guys who can't do springboard 630s.

Sometimes I like to make myself laugh by thinking about the guy being caught quietly chanting “light as a feather, stiff as a board” over and over while setting up the spot

[DEAN]

GRINGO LOCO!

 

[HarryArchieGus]

14 hours ago, Matt D said:

I feel like @HarryArchieGus and I should high five when we finish these. It's a lot of wrestling!

Absolutely, And wait for it... on the flipside. 

Quote

• The Archer squash was good. The Cage squash was probably a more complete match but I don't care much about Jett (the crowd kind of did) so I would have rather just seen Cage run him over and the two of them walk past each other like Slaughter and Sheik in between matches.

Yeah, love it. I've never seen this Sheik-Slaughter moment. But I definitely saw two others do it after. Who tho?

 

Quote

• Reynolds and Silver remain the only guys who don't follow normal tag rules I tolerate. Bad shake for Johnson to go heel and then the Factory break up. It looks like Karter will be with Clayton now. I'm not sure what to do with Johnson. Honestly, he'd be a good Bullet Club Gold guy, right? Can anyone else see that?

Jay White's gonna legitimize (an ehancement talent like) Juicey as a good stooge where before he was kinda dead in the water. But, I'm not sure we wanna saddle him with more (enhancement talent), but maybe. I really like Lee Johnson, but he kinda needs to take an excursion elsewhere. Most preferably New Japan. Can he make Super Juniors weight? Send the Savages too. NJPW, Noah, AJPW, whomever will take them. Both the Bears and Johnson may never figure it all out (goddamn, it's fucking hard to do), but they're all only a slight ways away from steady upward movement.  

[Technico Support]

I’m all for Bear Country being repackaged as hyped up gym bros.  Much better than the time they changed their name but not their gimmick and were stuck with some guy I never heard of for a manager, which lasted like two shows and we all forgot about it.

[Brandon Bones]

On 4/20/2023 at 8:39 PM, DEAN said:

Lee Moriarty vs Konosuke Takeshita was fucking GREAT!  El Hijo de Vikingo vs Gringo Loco was FUCKING INSANE.

Ok.  I better watch this.  That is too much font for me to decline.  

[JLowe]

On 4/21/2023 at 4:38 PM, DEAN said:

Yeah, that was a real wrestling match that ALSO started off with that Standing Shoulder Rana thing I've never seen before ever in my FIFTY-FOUR years of watching wrestling.  That was insane.  And I'm very old.

I just finished watching and the crowd reaction for that spot was massive. It was like people were buzzing because of the possibilities and then get that immediate ridiculous (and perfectly executed) spot and the top blew off for a while. I’m glad to hear Gringo Loco was invited back because he was a fantastic base who is also capable of great things (the top rope press slam was wild) and I’m hoping he can go against Komander, Metalik, heck maybe even Sammy.

Loved Takeshita-Moriarty, that might be my match of the week as a slightly more complete match. Moriarty is now in two high star matches in the month of April. He’s working hard and earning his shots.

I love Athena. On the one hand, I’m glad she’s being given this freedom to just own the ROH women’s division and break all these porcelain hussies because it’s so damn fun to watch. But how much better would it be if she could be doing that with the TBS title on Dynamite or Rampage?

Colt-Joe was perfectly fine nostalgia. Willow-Renegade(s) was fun, best I’ve seen them look and hard hitting. Kingdom-Top Action was fine.

The rest was Dark level, some in a good way and some in a not so good way. And I thought the Penta-Comoroto thing with the dead arms was one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen in my years of watching wrestling.

[TheVileOne]

So if AEW starts another 2-hour Saturday show, what happens to ROH at that point? Will they finally establish separate rosters?

Edited April 24, 2023 by TheVileOne

[odessasteps]

37 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

So if AEW starts another 2-hour Saturday show, what happens to ROH at that point? Will they finally establish separate rosters?

A third brand split? 

[Brandon Bones]

While Vikingo/GL elevated this show quite a bit.  I came away enjoying how the show uses much of its developing talent.  I’m seeing lots of upside in the Renegades and Heather Reckless.  If they can make losing look good for awhile?  You can mold some really great scrappy underdog baby faces out of that.  
 

More baby faces.  
 

Joe vs. Colt makes my early ROH geek heart soar.  Would’ve liked to see Colt get a bit more.  But ultimately Joe should be killing him dead at the end.  
 

Didn’t I just demand more baby faces?  
 

I should watch this show more often.  

[HarryArchieGus]

9 hours ago, JLowe said:

The rest was Dark level, some in a good way and some in a not so good way. And I thought the Penta-Comoroto thing with the dead arms was one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen in my years of watching wrestling.

To be clear, 'Like' for everything, but this. He broke down both arms with a nice snap for each and then pinned him, what's not to like? If you're blaming Comoroto for the campy 'no no no' I guess I kinda see the 'dumb', but that would be expecting something beyond Big Nick's ability level. Penta rules in his special silly way and one day I believe you'll give in and see it too!

[Matt D]

2 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

To be clear, 'Like' for everything, but this. He broke down both arms with a nice snap for each and then pinned him, what's not to like? If you're blaming Comoroto for the campy 'no no no' I guess I kinda see the 'dumb', but that would be expecting something beyond Big Nick's ability level. Penta rules in his special silly way and one day I believe you'll give in and see it too!

They didn't go far enough with it. The finish should have been Comoroto powering up after losing the second arm and, with a primal scream, running headfirst at Penta with all of his might and rage. Penta sidesteps and Nicky Boy crashes into the corner and knocks himself out. Penta shrugs and steps on him for the pin.

[Dog]

14 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

So if AEW starts another 2-hour Saturday show, what happens to ROH at that point? Will they finally establish separate rosters?

There's way too many AEW Collision matches on ROH. 

[Matt D]

I wrote three paragraphs on Takeshita vs Moriarty:

http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2023/04/aew-five-fingers-of-death-and-friends.html

And I'm looking forward to Moriarty vs Rocky this week.

(We also get:

• Infantry vs Vance/RUSH
• Best Friends vs Joe Ocasio and Mooke Summers (I don't know of Summers but he posted a nice tweet about how excited he is)
• Athena vs Lady Frost (Fighting Ground)
• Stu/Uno vs Jeeves/Sonny
• Gringo Loco vs Blake Christian
• Cage vs Ruffin (That sounds fun; I bet Cage lets Ruffin gorilla press slam him)
• Diamante vs Skye Blue

 

 

[HarryArchieGus]

3 hours ago, Matt D said:

• Infantry vs Vance/RUSH
• Best Friends vs Joe Ocasio and Mooke Summers (I don't know of Summers but he posted a nice tweet about how excited he is)
• Athena vs Lady Frost (Fighting Ground)
• Stu/Uno vs Jeeves/Sonny
• Gringo Loco vs Blake Christian
• Cage vs Ruffin (That sounds fun; I bet Cage lets Ruffin gorilla press slam him)
• Diamante vs Skye Blue

I'm preparing myself for more of the sleepy Steel City, but then again maybe this ROH taping was so good they burnt them out - no disrepect to our own who were there and very likely doing their best amidst the terrible towels and Billy Gunn fans. 

As @DEAN might say, I back Best Frenz's play - moving their act to ROH and taking a stab at the silver. I liked Ms. Frosty in her earlier ROHTV losses, and look forward to her attempt here taking down the always wonderful Athena. Leon Ruffin is a fucking awesome hand, and I look forward to him shimmy shimmy ya-ing all over the ring and ring ropes against the Machine. I like Cage over here in ROH, seems like the smaller crowd in this forum is willing to give him a deserved chance. Stu/Uno-Jeeves/Sonny has the makings of something that may surprise a few, but not me. I expect excellence. The Infantry are on a cruising for a bruising, and very deserved of a good beating at the hands of the LFI. I say deserving for being babyface-try-too-hards. Be cool motherfucker, be cool! Gringo-Blake Christian is a nice follow up to the Vikingo match. Gringo's surely going hard on the heeling for Blake to display his tremendous babyface tools. Diamante-Skye Blue is a match I'd skip on Dark, but I'll give it a shot here. Skye's definitely progressing, which is nice to see. This isn't my favorite line-up, but slide me in some nice promos, dare I say a video package or two(?), and this could be fun. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by HarryArchieGus

[DreamBroken]

A very short episode this week compared to the norm, at just over 1 hour and a throwback match added onto the end, of Joe/Gibson from 2005 to finish it out.

Lots of squashes night with only a couple matches going over 5 mins. Athena/Frost was fun with Frost landing some nice strikes and her twisting moonsault looking good before Athena put her down. Always enjoy some Skye Blue and I'm definitely down for the setup of Athena vs Skye being next. Brian Cage absolutely killed Leon Ruffin, his lariat towards the end was epic. Enjoyed Daniels' promo. I guess they abandoned the Daniels/Sydal team from earlier episodes but I'm always down for more Daniels vs Joe matches too.  Moriarty/Romero was good with the most time and Blake/Loco was a solid fast paced main event, nice springboard 450 on the finish.