December 2022 Wrestling Discussion

[Octopus]

1 hour ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Current CMLL you can’t beat right now. It’s the best it’s ever been booked since the early 00’s. But a lot of people haven’t picked up on it because of the way the shows have been distributed, but people should give it a shot. They have quite a collection of future stars on their roster right now. Highlighted by a once in a generation lucha talent. I can’t recommend them enough if you need a weekly lucha fix.

How do I watch? Do they have a service or do they also post shows on Twitch or YouTube? 

[LoneWolf&Subs]

17 minutes ago, Octopus said:

How do I watch? Do they have a service or do they also post shows on Twitch or YouTube? 

They post Friday shows(Their #1 show) on a two weeks delay on the YouTube channel every Sunday. VideosOficialesCMLL Is where you want to go https://m.youtube.com/@VideosOficialesCMLL. If you want to watch live Friday shows you’ll have to pay five bucks for it on the Ticketmaster page. Cubsfan posts the link usually the day of on Luchablog. The catch with these streams is that you can’t rewatch them after they air. So you need to watch it live, or wait two weeks to rewatch it on YouTube. Try this Sundays show. It’s five bucks, on an easier day to watch it,  and it’s considered one of their biggest of the shows of the calender year, if you are here for the big shows.

I’d also recommend subscribing to certain Lucha YouTube channels. That way you can get quick updates to where the stars of the major promotions are throughout the week.

Edited December 29, 2022 by LoneWolf&Subs

[Mario]

3 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Is it better to be a headliner in AAA or CMLL or a mid-card act in WWE? It might depend on what you value most at this point in your career - financial stability or artistic achievement, presuming WWE offers the former and the Roldans/Carlos or Panico/the Alonsos the latter. 

Listening to Meltzer now and Dave claims he signed for “NXT money”, not main roster money.

Dave thinks Lee’s ceiling is lower than you’d think.  Generally skeptical that he’ll get much of a chance in WWE. Too many factors against him, including not being fluent in English.  AEW was interested in him, but apparently not enough to offer him good money.  Dave’s attitude is that AEW already has their guys and Lee isn’t that unique when you have Fenix, Pentagon, Bandido on the roster.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

Lee isn’t as special anymore in 2023(Even probably all the way back in 2019). Which is true. I mean you could factor in that he is an extremely handsome young man, but just being that isn’t exactly helping Hector Garza Jr.. So he’ll need a complete reinvention of who he is if he wants to swim. Still he is the more gifted member of his family in terms of being a spectacle, but again there are 10 other(and more) Luchadors I’d put over him today. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by LoneWolf&Subs

[Pete]

Seeing today is the anniversary of Stan Hansen beating Rick Martel to win the AWA title at the Meadowlands, and the thought occurred to me: how many US arenas can claim they hosted world title switches for three different promotions?

Meadowlands: AWA, WWF (Hart b Undertaker), NWA (Flair b Sting)

[odessasteps]

Baltimore has 2, not sure of any others off the top of my head, since once the world titles change so often in the 90s forward. 

[Pete]

11 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Baltimore has 2, not sure of any others off the top of my head, since once the world titles change so often in the 90s forward. 

There's also the question of what constitutes a "world" title. AWA/NWA/WWF clearly were. You can add MSG to the list if you count ROH and NJPW - the former is a bit nebulous, and the latter wasn't considered the "World" title by the promotion itself at the time they switched it.

[Dolfan in NYC]

All I know about Dragon Lee is that he's a hell of a worker, and his name works incredibly well as a substitute in this song:

 

[matt925]

1 hour ago, Mario said:

Listening to Meltzer now and Dave claims he signed for “NXT money”, not main roster money.

Dave thinks Lee’s ceiling is lower than you’d think.  Generally skeptical that he’ll get much of a chance in WWE. Too many factors against him, including not being fluent in English.  AEW was interested in him, but apparently not enough to offer him good money.  Dave’s attitude is that AEW already has their guys and Lee isn’t that unique when you have Fenix, Pentagon, Bandido on the roster.

Without knowing the numbers there isn’t a lot to say. But he spent a lot of time wrestling in new japan and enough time in aew and they didn’t offer him what this deal was, so I imagine he did the right thing. 
 

Lol at the unique angle, like qt Marshall and Ethan page are unique. 

[porksweats]

13 minutes ago, matt925 said:

Without knowing the numbers there isn’t a lot to say. But he spent a lot of time wrestling in new japan and enough time in aew and they didn’t offer him what this deal was, so I imagine he did the right thing. 
 

Lol at the unique angle, like qt Marshall and Ethan page are unique. 

They aren't the comparisons there, "Lee isn’t that unique when you have Fenix, Pentagon, Bandido on the roster."

Back to the subject of Lee signing with WWE, I think it's a solid choice. Let's hope they don't fumble the ball.

[matt925]

5 minutes ago, porksweats said:

They aren't the comparisons there, "Lee isn’t that unique when you have Fenix, Pentagon, Bandido on the roster."

Back to the subject of Lee signing with WWE, I think it's a solid choice. Let's hope they don't fumble the ball.

I get what you’re saying, but I’d rather pay money to buy a ticket to see dragon lee than qt or Ethan, regardless of who else is there. Just saying. 
 

Edit: give me four singles matches with Fenix, penta, bandido, and lee please. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by matt925

[odessasteps]

36 minutes ago, Pete said:

There's also the question of what constitutes a "world" title. AWA/NWA/WWF clearly were. You can add MSG to the list if you count ROH and NJPW - the former is a bit nebulous, and the latter wasn't considered the "World" title by the promotion itself at the time they switched it.

I would say awa, nwa/WCW, wwf, triple crown and iwgp would count. Maybe ecw and not roh, iwa, wcwa.

Edit: the Triple Crown changed hands more times outside of Tokyo than I would have expected. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by odessasteps

[Pete]

16 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

I would say awa, nwa/WCW, wwf, triple crown and iwgp would count. Maybe ecw and not roh, iwa, wcwa.

Edit: the Triple Crown changed hands more times outside of Tokyo than I would have expected. 

Yeah, the various Japan groups share the arenas to the point that I intentionally tried to limit it to the US only. Budokan, Sumo Hall, Tokyo Dome would all have to be up there. I'd consider AJW/WWWA in the mix as well from the promotional end.

[odessasteps]

Chicago had AWA and NWA title changes. I presume  a wwf/wwe one at some point. Prob not all in the same building. 

Rogers won the NWA title in NYC but not sure where. This is during the title where some of his reigns aren't counted (Bobo and Kowalski being involved) , so prob should not be in the mix. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by odessasteps

[Pete]

13 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Chicago had AWA and NWA title changes. I presume  a wwf/wwe one at some point. Prob not all in the same building. 

Rogers won the NWA title in NYC but not sure where. This is during the title where some of his reigns aren't counted (Bobo and Kowalski being involved) , so prob should not be in the mix. 

The famous Chicago NWA title switch (1961, Rogers b O'Connor) was at Comiskey Park. AWA title switches (1980 Gagne b Bockwinkel, 1982 Bock b Wanz) I'm guessing were at the Amphitheater or the Horizon.

[odessasteps]

5 minutes ago, Pete said:

The famous Chicago NWA title switch (1961, Rogers b O'Connor) was at Comiskey Park. AWA title switches (1980 Gagne b Bockwinkel, 1982 Bock b Wanz) I'm guessing were at the Amphitheater or the Horizon.

And Flair beating Garvin was at the UIC Pavillon. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

The Twin Cities would have AWA, WWF, AEW, and ECW world title changes.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

The Twin Cities would have AWA, WWF, AEW, and ECW world title changes.

Surely not all in the same arena though, which is what I'm looking for.

[elizium]

Not only did they all happen in the same arena, but they happened in the same match. It was a Thunderdome set up, it was wild. Otto Wanz did a bump off the top

[Elsalvajeloco]

26 minutes ago, Pete said:

Surely not all in the same arena though, which is what I'm looking for.

It's going to be extremely difficult in terms of the same arena just because the variety of choices. That and WCW/ECW for a vast majority of their of existence was never popular enough to run buildings 10,000 or better which is why the Meadowlands one is crazy. For example, Las Vegas has multiple title changes. However, I am guessing due to partly union issues, WWE up until fairly recently went to Thomas & Mack (which has at least 2 or 3 WWF title changes which is crazy) off the strip as opposed to the MGM Grand Garden Arena which saw both the WCW and AEW world titles change there. 

It would have to an older venue still in active use like Allstate Arena (fka the Rosemont Horizon) or the Greensboro Coliseum. Ironically, the former has two matches Flair vs. Steamboat at Spring Stampede 1994 and Kane vs. Undertaker at Judgement Day 1998 where the world title was vacated or still vacant as result of the finish.

[Shartnado]

25 minutes ago, elizium said:

Not only did they all happen in the same arena, but they happened in the same match. It was a Thunderdome set up, it was wild. Otto Wanz did a bump off the top

Yup, I think I saw a clipped version on some shady website. The quality was shit though. You literally couldn't tell if it was from '84 or '94. Some time warp shit...nice bump, though.

[odessasteps]

12 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

It's going to be extremely difficult in terms of the same arena just because the variety of choices. That and WCW/ECW for a vast majority of their of existence was never popular enough to run buildings 10,000 or better which is why the Meadowlands one is crazy. For example, Las Vegas has multiple title changes. However, I am guessing due to partly union issues, WWE up until fairly recently went to Thomas & Mack (which has at least 2 or 3 WWF title changes which is crazy) off the strip as opposed to the MGM Grand Garden Arena which saw both the WCW and AEW world titles change there. 

It would have to an older venue still in active use like Allstate Arena (fka the Rosemont Horizon) or the Greensboro Coliseum. Ironically, the former has two matches Flair vs. Steamboat at Spring Stampede 1994 and Kane vs. Undertaker at Judgement Day 1998 where the world title was vacated or still vacant as result of the finish.

I mentioned Baltimore earlier as having 2 already. Since the Arena (whatever its name now) is still used, it's a candidate. Funny thing is I don't know if ROH ran there when Sinclair owned them. The one ROH show i went to was in a park or on someone's campus IIRC. 

[Johnny Sorrow]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

Seeing today is the anniversary of Stan Hansen beating Rick Martel to win the AWA title at the Meadowlands, and the thought occurred to me: how many US arenas can claim they hosted world title switches for three different promotions?

Meadowlands: AWA, WWF (Hart b Undertaker), NWA (Flair b Sting)

I was there for the Martel/ Hansen switch. My mom drove me and some friends in some shitty weather for Pro Wrestling USA.

[Dolphman 3000]

7 hours ago, Pete said:

Seeing today is the anniversary of Stan Hansen beating Rick Martel to win the AWA title at the Meadowlands, and the thought occurred to me: how many US arenas can claim they hosted world title switches for three different promotions?

Meadowlands: AWA, WWF (Hart b Undertaker), NWA (Flair b Sting)

Has to be Manhattan Center

Hammerstein Ballroom had WWE, ECW, NWA and ROH world title changes, Grand Ballroom had ROH, TNA and MLW world title changes

Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia had WWE title changes, plus WCW's title changing hands in 2001 (under WWE) and ECW's title changing hands in 2006 (under WWE)

Edited December 29, 2022 by Dolphman 3000

[赤い竜]

Mariah May and Xia Brookside work for Stardom now.