December 2022 Wrestling Discussion

[odessasteps]

I’d love to hear stories about the Crockett guys and if they were  hanging out the UNC or NC State players in the mid 80s. 

[LoneWolf&Subs]

I feel like we got Barkley, with Pittman. Malone with say 50 more pounds of muscle might be very interesting with his handsome facial features.

Edited December 27, 2022 by LoneWolf&Subs

[Dog]

Settle down, Hollywood Subsetico.

[The Green Meanie]

Cultaholic did another AI episode, this time for Smackdown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yU90jT8bgw

[The Natural]

 

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

20 hours ago, Infinit said:

WWE is doing an MSG house show and a Best of Raw on USA instead of a live Raw featuring the return of John Cena at MSG. Help make that make sense lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

Was Cena ever actually booked for MSG? I read the results and didn’t see him listed at all. But the fans were treated to two Braun Strowman matches to end the night, plus Jinder Mahal. 

[Dolfan in NYC]

2 hours ago, LF2 said:

Was Cena ever actually booked for MSG? I read the results and didn’t see him listed at all. But the fans were treated to two Braun Strowman matches to end the night, plus Jinder Mahal. 

He definitely appeared in the commercials, but of course, "Card Subject To Change".  

They did get Bray's first match since his return though.

[odessasteps]

4 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

He definitely appeared in the commercials, but of course, "Card Subject To Change".  

They did get Bray's first match since his return though.

I doubt that was worth braving the elements.

[Cobra Commander]

John Cena in the news:

https://www.inquirer.com/entertainment/john-cena-twitter-followers-wwe-smackdown-live-20221227.html

[SirSmUgly]

I think, at best, Ahmed gets the Sid treatment and fades out by mid-1998 instead of mid-1997 like Sid did. His accent was too thick to cut the longer promos and skits that the company moved toward.

Ahmed was maybe ten years too late because that type of physical charisma, paired with a manager who could talk for him, would have been unstoppable. Stick Ahmed with Gary Hart and watch the magic happen (and the face turn when Hart eventually pisses off Ahmed would be flames, though I don't know who you'd get to talk for him as a face manager).

Edited December 27, 2022 by SirSmellingtonofCascadia

[odessasteps]

But it likely would have come with a gimmick deemed problematic in 2022, be he some kind of African Gary Hart found on a world tour or some gang member from Halsted Street in Chicago. 

[For Great Justice]

16 hours ago, odessasteps said:

This reminds me of the discussion we had about what if Karl Malone or Barkley had gone into the rasslin. 

I mean, as a big ole country kid from north Louisiana, a Malone that came around about 10 years earlier could’ve definitely entered the business for sure. He was taken in the 85 draft, and by that point Mid South was on the downward slope and would turn into the UWF six months later…so a little late.

But a 1975 Malone? I could easily see a big athletic dude from Summerield that was already a local celebrity like Malone joining up with Watts after leaving La Tech instead of going to the NBA or shortly after. The Doctor Death career track.

[SirSmUgly]

14 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

But it likely would have come with a gimmick deemed problematic in 2022, be he some kind of African Gary Hart found on a world tour or some gang member from Halsted Street in Chicago. 

Sure, but Ahmed ended up feuding with a bunch of Black Nationalist caricatures in 1997 anyway. Such is the pro wrestling business.

Also, I would have been a sucker for Ahmed's gimmick being a dude who ran with Gary Hart on the streets of Chicago and helped unite the black and white gangs to run the Chicago underworld. Regressive? Yeah, but also entertaining enough for me to just go with it.

Edited December 27, 2022 by SirSmellingtonofCascadia

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

I think, at best, Ahmed gets the Sid treatment and fades out by mid-1998 instead of mid-1997 like Sid did. His accent was too thick to cut the longer promos and skits that the company moved toward.

Ahmed was maybe ten years too late because that type of physical charisma, paired with a manager who could talk for him, would have been unstoppable. Stick Ahmed with Gary Hart and watch the magic happen (and the face turn when Hart eventually pisses off Ahmed would be flames, though I don't know who you'd get to talk for him as a face manager).

I don't think Sid faded as much as he no longer had the luxury to continue to freely bounce around from #1 promotion to #2 promotion and back again. I don't think anyone has had the success that Sid had from the his initial WCW run with the Skyscrapers to his final run with WCW. Hell, had he not gotten seriously injured in 2001, whose to say he wouldn't have been in the Invasion angle? This motherfucker fell up his entire career. Guys would love to have that type of career especially for his level of in ring talent.

46 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Sure, but Ahmed ended up feuding with a bunch of Black Nationalist caricatures in 1997 anyway. Such is the pro wrestling business.

Also, I would have been a sucker for Ahmed's gimmick being a dude who ran with Gary Hart on the streets of Chicago and helped unite the black and white gangs to run the Chicago underworld. Regressive? Yeah, but also entertaining enough for me to just go with it.

Even though they ultimately went back to the islander savage thing with Umaga, yeah you cannot do Kamala Redux. However, going back to the awfulness of WWF in 1995, I wonder where they would have went with the Making a Difference Fatu thing. Along with Bradshaw, Holly, the real double JJ/ the future Road Dogg, Scott Taylor, and a few other guys, Fatu is one of the guys they kept because they liked him so much and well obviously his family's connection with WWF. However, at the beginning before they made him just another goofy gimmick, I thought they were go a more serious route and actually try to do something where Fatu has to actually confront some of his family members who still run in the streets, do various unsavory things, and touch on various subjects that WWF had never really delved into. Then, I think about how the Ahmed/Ron Simmons thing played out. You had some of the elements that worked just because there was natural chemistry there between the two performers but you have a bunch of whites dudes in their mid 30s to mid 50s in charge of creative who only can think in the aspect of "well, they have to call each other Uncle Tom cause I saw it on Donahue a few years ago". In addition, it's a group of guys who come from the territories who believe you have to go for all the heat in the world because we need something that creates some headlines. I don't think certain ideas for angles and storylines are problematic as much as the mentality of if we do touch on a serious issue such as race it has to be from zero to 60 cause it's pro wrestling and pro wrestling has to be over the top.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

Yeah, you really can’t touch on serious topics in a modern pro wrestling episode. Pro wrestling is Real Housewives, not season one Real World.

Edited December 27, 2022 by LoneWolf&Subs

[odessasteps]

Presumably any attempt to deal with a serious topic on wrestling show would just get bad press from  one side of the aisle or the other and a concerned phone call from a sponsor and/or the network. 

[cwoy2j]

57 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

 Along with Bradshaw, Holly, the real double JJ/ the future Road Dogg, Scott Taylor, and a few other guys, Fatu is one of the guys they kept because they liked him so much and well obviously his family's connection with WWF. However, at the beginning before they made him just another goofy gimmick, I thought they were go a more serious route and actually try to do something where Fatu has to actually confront some of his family members who still run in the streets, do various unsavory things, and touch on various subjects that WWF had never really delved into. 

I vaguely remember hearing that the Samoan Gangsta Party were going to be involved in the whole Fatu deal at some point but it never came to fruition. I don't know how serious that was as it could've been one of those "Yokozuna in the Hart Foundation" things where it made sense on a few levels so people ran with it as a rumor but it just never came together.

[cwoy2j]

18 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

2. If I am Tony Norris and I am in the industry where a black man would have good cause to have serious mistrust for the business, the FIRST person I am making friends with IS Ron Simmons. I am not trying to get on his bad side. Moreover, I am learning how to improve on my craft and learning how to cut promos. In that era, where WWF really needed stars, I think they started signing everyone who had ONE good quality and where willing to take a wait and see approach with the rest. I mean they gave a shot to Terry Gordy after the plane incident where he was never the same again. With that in mind, he had a GOLDEN opportunity to be the first black star of that era and IMO the next Junkyard Dog. Coming off a horrific 1995 where there were only a handful of bright spots, he could have walked into the proverbial endzone and been one of the top guys heading into the next era with Austin/Rock and then Austin/Rock/HHH and sometimes Foley.

I can't remember if it was D'Lo or Godfather but one of them said that Simmons tried to mentor Ahmed but he (Ahmed) just wouldn't listen. They said Simmons told him something like, "listen man, they're literally trying to give you money and basically begging you to take it! Do you know how many other blacks who've been in this business would kill for that?" Basically trying to get him to stop being hard headed and appreciate his spot but obviously that never took. Ahmed has only been in the business for a couple of years at that point so when you think about it like that, the amount of push he got was crazy.

Edited December 27, 2022 by cwoy2j

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

4 hours ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

He definitely appeared in the commercials, but of course, "Card Subject To Change".  

They did get Bray's first match since his return though.

See that’s where I had no idea. I live in NY, but I only get commercials for Binghamton and Syracuse shows. Or Wilkes-Barre when they go to PA.

I noticed the video you posted that’s why I mentioned Jinder. I see they still got it better than Columbus being down Becky, Seth, Alexa, and Lashley.

[Elsalvajeloco]

57 minutes ago, cwoy2j said:

I vaguely remember hearing that the Samoan Gangsta Party were going to be involved in the whole Fatu deal at some point but it never came to fruition. I don't know how serious that was as it could've been one of those "Yokozuna in the Hart Foundation" things where it made sense on a few levels so people ran with it as a rumor but it just never came together.

Speaking of Yoko, I forgot to bring up that I thought that would have been a great way to repackage him as the main foil for Fatu once he was done with the Camp Cornette stuff and gotten his weight under control. The Yokozuna stuff was becoming passe even for that era of WWF. You can have where you finally acknowledge the familial relationship and say that everyone was trying to forge their own identity within the WWF. That would explain away the Headshrinker and Yokozuna gimmicks without outright saying wrestling is fake. You can also make it where the money, fame, and success of being Yokozuna changed Rodney under presumably a new name and went to his head to where he has gotten into things out of wrestling that isn't too legal. You don't have to do the elaborate Kane/Undertaker backstory they eventually retconned caused they added too many layers. You can just plant the seeds that Rodney got into all these things cause he was out with an injury or whatever to keep the lights on and his family fed, and Fatu cannot get down with that even though Rodney is almost like a blood brother to him.

Voila! You have the instant credibility of a multi-time WWF world champion instead of being it being 1 or 2 underneath guys and some guys only hardcore fans would readily know.

[Infinit]

46 minutes ago, cwoy2j said:

I vaguely remember hearing that the Samoan Gangsta Party were going to be involved in the whole Fatu deal at some point but it never came to fruition. I don't know how serious that was as it could've been one of those "Yokozuna in the Hart Foundation" things where it made sense on a few levels so people ran with it as a rumor but it just never came together.

Im pretty sure the Samoan Gangsta Party actually were on WWE TV though...I remember them checking out a Fatu match from the entrance way on an episode of Superstars.

[cwoy2j]

18 minutes ago, Infinit said:

Im pretty sure the Samoan Gangsta Party actually were on WWE TV though...I remember them checking out a Fatu match from the entrance way on an episode of Superstars.

You're probably right. I just remember hearing that they were going to be a big part of an angle with Fatu but it never really got off the ground to any great degree. I couldn't remember if they actually made tv or not.

[cwoy2j]

25 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Speaking of Yoko, I forgot to bring up that I thought that would have been a great way to repackage him as the main foil for Fatu once he was done with the Camp Cornette stuff and gotten his weight under control. The Yokozuna stuff was becoming passe even for that era of WWF. You can have where you finally acknowledge the familial relationship and say that everyone was trying to forge their own identity within the WWF. That would explain away the Headshrinker and Yokozuna gimmicks without outright saying wrestling is fake. You can also make it where the money, fame, and success of being Yokozuna changed Rodney under presumably a new name and went to his head to where he has gotten into things out of wrestling that isn't too legal. You don't have to do the elaborate Kane/Undertaker backstory they eventually retconned caused they added too many layers. You can just plant the seeds that Rodney got into all these things cause he was out with an injury or whatever to keep the lights on and his family fed, and Fatu cannot get down with that even though Rodney is almost like a blood brother to him.

Voila! You have the instant credibility of a multi-time WWF world champion instead of being it being 1 or 2 underneath guys and some guys only hardcore fans would readily know.

Yoko was actually cutting promos in English towards the end of his WWF career and not even bothering trying with a Japanese accent or anything so maybe they were going to go down that path.

[Elsalvajeloco]

14 minutes ago, Infinit said:

Im pretty sure the Samoan Gangsta Party actually were on WWE TV though...I remember them checking out a Fatu match from the entrance way on an episode of Superstars.

 

4 minutes ago, cwoy2j said:

You're probably right. I just remember hearing that they were going to be a big part of an angle with Fatu but it never really got off the ground to any great degree. I couldn't remember if they actually made tv or not.

They definitely were on Raw and then I think I saw the one Superstars appearance a few months back. Might have all been in the same taping cycle. Then, that was it.

[zendragon]

3 hours ago, odessasteps said:

But it likely would have come with a gimmick deemed problematic in 2022, be he some kind of African Gary Hart found on a world tour or some gang member from Halsted Street in Chicago. 

Him managed by Prince Nana? I'd buy that for a dollar