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Thought this was a pretty good show for the most part.

Mox/Nagata was decent and didn't ask either guy to do too much.

For 4 guys I don't care about, SCU/Bucks was a pretty good match. I don't think the Bucks should've had to cheat that much to put SCU out to pasture.

Cody's promo was the cringiest "both sides" shit ever, and I don't think the average AEW viewer is into that. Ogogo should definitely win this match if they have any sense, but their senses also told them this was a good promo idea, so...

I actually think Kenny/Pac/Orange is a good use of the triple threat gimmick. Neither of those two guys one on one with Kenny is particularly interesting or credible right now, but combined, it gives Kenny enough of a challenge in a match that isn't as overused in AEW as it is in WWE.

Wish they would've come up with something different for the Pinnacle/IC segment. The drink spray is WWE's spot forever, and this felt like a cheap knock-off, which AEW is usually much better at avoiding.

Miro/Darby was exactly what it should've been. Didn't need to be a full squash, but Miro was dominant and Darby's hope spots weren't even all that hopeful, just enough to keep him looking tough in the face of a massive ass-kicking.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Go2Sleep said:

For 4 guys I don't care about, SCU/Bucks was a pretty good match. I don't think the Bucks should've had to cheat that much to put SCU out to pasture.

Oh yeah, I forgot to bring this up (for the record, I care about both teams). What the fuck was with the cutaway after that match to the Eddie/Mox locker room trashing? That was apparently SCU's last match ever as a team, they were (sorta, they didn't Freebird it, but I count it) the first Tag champs, Daniels is now saying on Twitter he might be done... that moment should've really been given some time to breathe. That really, really pissed me off. Especially if that ends up being Daniels' last match. If it's down to timing, then count it as yet another fucking production snafu I guess.

There's also always the chance the stip is a total work, in which case y'know, nice, you got me. If not... Even TNA would've probably given Daniels a better send-off.

Edited by Zakk_Sabbath
Editing to add ESPECIALLY after that match, which I personally thought was a banger ,
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I really thought Cody's announcement was going to be about what colour he was painting the baby's room.  That would have been better. 

Page/Dark Order promo was pretty great.

I'm probably alone here, but I thought Moxley's previous theme was better and fit his character better than 'Wild Thing'.

Chris Jericho's not quite a channel-changer for me but he's getting close.  He's supposed to be about building new stars and all, but coming back less than week after getting thrown off a cage to give MJF the beer bath comeuppance is a very Triple H-ish thing to do. Realistically, they could have had Sammy et al. recruit some reluctant allies, eager to get another shot at FTR  like Jurassic Express into the feud and let it simmer for a few weeks before Jericho came back. Plus it was a waste of a great lil Tully promo. This whole thing would have worked better if Pinnacle celebrated, destroyed some fools over a few weeks, start talking about how nobody can touch them, then have the Milk Truck stunt.  

I'm not too big on Bucks or FTR, but this was a pretty good match. My only complaint is that they cut away from SCU's supposed last match ever, without giving them any sort of on-air send-off, to show Moxley/Kingston throw a tantrum in the Elite's dressing room (Why didn't they just come out and negate the Elite advantage?!). They went from talking about SCU being one of the all-time great teams to "Well they're done, here's something else!"

Miro-Darby was terrific. One of those David and Goliath matches where David JUST can't overcome matches that WWE used to do so well (Triple H-TAKA for example) but somehow forgot about over the last few years. 

 

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1 hour ago, A_K said:

Yeah - I’m not even sure it’s a hangover of the WWE system so much as Jericho + Cody are both just very much “Me, me, me” personalities. I thought, with Jericho, that came across quite vividly in his Broken Skull interview, where he kind of portrayed himself, without any sense of humour, as the guy who has carried AEW on his back. These are the kind of personalities who would be put firmly back in their box in a corporate WWE setting, but are allowed a little too much leeway here. Some of the other ex-WWE guys seem very much team-players, so may be more a character-thing than heritage-thing. They’ll blow themselves out soon anyway, I have no doubt of that.

This is quite the shit opinion.

This forum has such a weird dichotomy with AEW. We have people thrilled with the shows singing the praises of Miro and Darby and Hangman. We have people with hate boners for like Omega and Cody and Jericho. It's almost like there's not a rational middle ground. And I'm not going to knock that. I certainly hateddddd Cody's promo last night and agree with every bit of criticism it got. Everyone has opinions and it's not wrong to feel how you feel about characters.

But Jericho is 100% a team player. Cody as well. I know you're super critical of like every single aspect of AEW but you're way off base here. More than usual. Jericho is a millionaire top of the card main eventer. He just took a 10 foot backwards bump off a cage as a means to help get a younger guy and his faction over. How is that not a team player? He definitely didn't have to take that bump. He could have pulled a Hogan 'That doesn't work for me brother' but he didn't. And it was probably even his own idea. He's a dude that legitimately cares about the next generation getting over and takes a lot of pride in accomplishing that with them. Cody's dumb promo aside, what about him is not a team player? Dude let Brodie smoke him in 3 minutes to win the TNT title. Didn't even hook the leg. Cody did that to help put over a dude that deserved the shine he was getting. How is that not a team player?

Straight up delusional shit opinion.

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It’s funny how Cody’s promo (and last week Jericho’s crash pad) take the oxygen and attention from an exciting and eventful show. I get the controversial stuff is more fertile ground for conversation, and to be fair theres a lot to be said for the above point about Coach Tony K applying more discerning edits and greater attention to detail in the production.

But I was buzzing by the end of this show. I haven’t been in the headspace to engage in wrestling beyond reading all of you bullshitting about the shows (always a pleasure) but took in the full show uninterrupted this week and the bookend matches plus the Tag Title blood-soaked spectacle were more than enough for me to be satisfied.

As for the tag, I love the Bucks leaning in hard to the OTT obnoxious, referential stuff and the promo later calling out Mox and Eddie was so much better and more authentic than they have been as faces. Daniels’ blood and wobbles fed into the drama all the more and made it feel like a now-or-never last gasp by a once great veteran. And Callis’ comment about it being awful that Matt had CD’s blood on his shoes was a great heel line perfectly delivered. That man is an artist.

Not much more to be said on the TNT title match. You could pretty much cut any random piece of that match for a highlight reel or dramatic video package. Darby has proven himself to be a truly great, versatile (in terms of diversity of opponents) worker with an urgent, believable style that is as fresh as the WWE-style set pieces (that coincidentally always seem to involve Jericho) are not.

And Ive got a hot take for the hot takes thread - the bar to be allowed to do topes on TV should be Darby and Fenix. If you can’t do it as spectacularly as them, sorry mate you’re on the no-fly list. Might end up with a locker room of over-ambitious casualties but hey.

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Posted (edited)

Loved the cold open split screen for the opener. Really good presentation that gave the match a big fight feel.

Bugs me how the tag rules seem to disappear in bucks matches, plus this was a bad night for refs looking like idiots.

Jericho should have been off TV selling the injury, but another great promo from Tully.

Cody went back to the 80's with that promo

Did Kenny say Heel Turn as he left?

Edited by zendragon
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29 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Cody's dumb promo aside, what about him is not a team player? Dude let Brodie smoke him in 3 minutes to win the TNT title. Didn't even hook the leg. Cody did that to help put over a dude that deserved the shine he was getting. How is that not a team player?

Straight up delusional shit opinion.

Gonna disagree with you here, friend.  This wasn’t some selfless act to get Brodie over.  Cody let Brodie smoke him to keep the title warm so he could take some time off to host Great Value America’s Got Talent.  Then he came back and won the title right back in a damn-near storyline-free chain match.  If that’s “giving a guy some shine,” it’s of the Hogan variety.  Same way he gave Darby some shine by beating him twice (including one where Darby pinned himself and looked incredibly dumb) and drawing once before finally doing a job.  2-1-1, who’s the better wrestler, in storyline?

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3 hours ago, Kev said:

 

On the point about Cody being disconnected from the rest of the show. Isn’t it a bit strange that he’s not being brought into the Kenny/Bucks angle at all? There should surely be some tension there with the other EVPs becoming total dickheads. 

There is real life tension there.  

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49 minutes ago, Custos said:

And Ive got a hot take for the hot takes thread - the bar to be allowed to do topes on TV should be Darby and Fenix. If you can’t do it as spectacularly as them, sorry mate you’re on the no-fly list. Might end up with a locker room of over-ambitious casualties but hey.

Hell yeah.

Spoiler

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Haven't read their book. What's the gist?

Apparently, there was a time in the fall before AEW was announced when Cody was strongly considering going back to WWE, which I had no idea about.

Edit: Unless of course @EVAyou're referring to something else I'm not remembering or privvy to

Edited by Zakk_Sabbath
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A couple of throwaway observations:

Can’t help but get excited about Lance Archer coming back into prominence, and really hoping for a strong showing against Miro to recapture that G1 magic after a pretty underwhelming tenure so far.

Nick Jackson’s baby face, receding hairline, bright blue eyes and air of vague (and sometimes manic) detachment really remind me of Youtuber hbomberguy. Though less so with the ultra-sleazy beard.

The 30 years back comment from last week dovetails quite neatly into the Cody jingoistic promo, given that virtually 30 years ago to the day, we had that other awful example of jingoistic nationalism in Hogan/ Slaughter

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10 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Apparently, there was a time in the fall before AEW was announced when Cody was strongly considering going back to WWE, which I had no idea about.

Edit: Unless of course @EVAyou're referring to something else I'm not remembering or privvy to

I had heard some innuendo and scuttlebutt that things were not all rosy backstage but I don’t think anyone said anything concrete recently. It feels painfully apparent that Cody is just forging ahead with his own personal vision divorced from everything else, and not in a ‘something for everyone’ way.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

This is quite the shit opinion.

This forum has such a weird dichotomy with AEW. We have people thrilled with the shows singing the praises of Miro and Darby and Hangman. We have people with hate boners for like Omega and Cody and Jericho. It's almost like there's not a rational middle ground. And I'm not going to knock that. I certainly hateddddd Cody's promo last night and agree with every bit of criticism it got. Everyone has opinions and it's not wrong to feel how you feel about characters.

But Jericho is 100% a team player. Cody as well. I know you're super critical of like every single aspect of AEW but you're way off base here. More than usual. Jericho is a millionaire top of the card main eventer. He just took a 10 foot backwards bump off a cage as a means to help get a younger guy and his faction over. How is that not a team player? He definitely didn't have to take that bump. He could have pulled a Hogan 'That doesn't work for me brother' but he didn't. And it was probably even his own idea. He's a dude that legitimately cares about the next generation getting over and takes a lot of pride in accomplishing that with them. Cody's dumb promo aside, what about him is not a team player? Dude let Brodie smoke him in 3 minutes to win the TNT title. Didn't even hook the leg. Cody did that to help put over a dude that deserved the shine he was getting. How is that not a team player?

Straight up delusional shit opinion.


It is amusing how the loudest are often the least perceptive. Read my numerous posts — including those you are directly referring to —, analyse your own words again, and try to reflect on whether your conclusions are validated.

Edited by A_K
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So clearly the Bubbly Bath was taped after the Thunder Rosa match and the TNT title match but aired earlier. I wonder what was taped when?

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I think the awfulness of the Cody promo is amplified by the fact that it was promoted as a “special announcement” and it boiled down to “he’s having a match with the guy he’s feuding with”.   It’s the same with the birth announcement. They keep hyping these things as “big announcements” and it’s just not. 
 

it’s weird how guys like Moxley leave WWE so they can do something different while guys like Cody and Jericho leave so they can be more featured doing WWE things in a different place. 

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1 hour ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

This is quite the shit opinion.

This forum has such a weird dichotomy with AEW. We have people thrilled with the shows singing the praises of Miro and Darby and Hangman. We have people with hate boners for like Omega and Cody and Jericho. It's almost like there's not a rational middle ground. And I'm not going to knock that. I certainly hateddddd Cody's promo last night and agree with every bit of criticism it got. Everyone has opinions and it's not wrong to feel how you feel about characters.

But Jericho is 100% a team player. Cody as well. I know you're super critical of like every single aspect of AEW but you're way off base here. More than usual. Jericho is a millionaire top of the card main eventer. He just took a 10 foot backwards bump off a cage as a means to help get a younger guy and his faction over. How is that not a team player? He definitely didn't have to take that bump. He could have pulled a Hogan 'That doesn't work for me brother' but he didn't. And it was probably even his own idea. He's a dude that legitimately cares about the next generation getting over and takes a lot of pride in accomplishing that with them. Cody's dumb promo aside, what about him is not a team player? Dude let Brodie smoke him in 3 minutes to win the TNT title. Didn't even hook the leg. Cody did that to help put over a dude that deserved the shine he was getting. How is that not a team player?

Straight up delusional shit opinion.

Yeah, I listened to Jericho’s podcast on the Blood and Guts, and he said the bump wasn’t his idea and he didn’t really want to take it but it was the best option for the storyline. It didn’t come across (especially because Excalibur over sold it with there’s nothing but concrete under that line) but he really didn’t have to do that.

I think some of Jericho’s ideas are goofy for my tastes and I’m not sure always work. But it’s clear he’s trying to help younger guys.

I would say the same for Cody too. He was (probably rightly) criticized for going too long with underneath guys in his open challenge. But him doing that led to Ricky Starks and Eddie Kingston getting jobs with AEW.

And Technico Support’s criticism of the Brodie Lee situation is unfair. It’s obvious that the long term plan they were building too was Darby finally getting over the hump and beating Cody for the title. And Cody was only gone for like two weeks, so it was unnecessary to drop the title to him.

Dropping the title to Brodie and in the fashion that he lost breathed new life into his character. His character and the Dark Order were dead in the water after AEW’s ridiculous booking trope of having a big guy come in look dominant and then lose the first big singles match.

And again, since the plan was for Darby to dethrone him, and he wasn’t gone that long, he didn’t have to do it.

 

 

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The criticism that Jericho went from WWE to another place to do more WWE things isn't accurate.

Jericho is a big time entertainer. That's who he was in WCW, it's who he was in WWE, he did similar shit in NJPW, and now in AEW. He keeps evolving and not every shot is going to hit, but he's still an entertainer.

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I do find it interesting that Cody seems to be on Sammy's vlog quite a bit but hasn't been on BTE in how long? Add to that, the aforementioned Cody's Isolated World of Midcard, and never interacting with the Elite suggests that perhaps it ain't all Gucci. 

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Posted (edited)

On balance, I enjoy Jericho’s stuff more than I don’t. That said, I feel he often falls into bucket 1 of my arbitrary 3-part recipe for AEW (maybe to be expanded in the navel-gazing thread):

1. Tony’s love letter to his favourite childhood memories e.g. 90’s ECW, FMW, Attitude Era WWF

2. ‘what’s old is new again’ things that fell out of vogue but feel fresh e.g. genuine veneration for veterans plugging them into roles where they can shine, blood and guts/high drama feuds but without the overwrought histrionics of a Gargano, emphasis on W/L to determine future opportunities

3. Genuinely fresh stuff (for mainstream US consumption) e.g. aforementioned Darby style, the ladies bringing the brutality, ‘state of the art’ high flying spectacles, Jericho’s ad-libbed post-win promo that spawned ‘a little bit of the bubbly’, (judicious use of) cinematic matches a la Sting/Darby/Team Taz

I would personally love less of 1, more of 2 and 3.

Edited by Custos
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Man, I'm a sucker for folks getting hosed down in the ring, no matter what the liquid is. Beer, milk, sewage, it's all funny to me. Mox and Kingston kicked ass. Good Brothers showed up to steal oxygen. The Young Bucks were slightly less useless than usual, but I still can't wait to see Mox and King stomp their guts in. Miro is THE. SHIT.

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I don't hate Cody or think he's not a team player. I think he can also cut a good promo now and again, but last night had me being reminded of Heenan's kayfabe reaction to one of Piper's unhinged rants on Prime Time Wrestling: "What is he talking about?!"

Quote

"Can I tell you something? I'd like to make a request. I don't want to hear none of your garbage about how upset you are about the little punks on the school busses with peanut butter on their paws! And some guy got ripped off because he got a '47 Merc with no top! And then they raise the gas prices!"

The late great Bobby Heenan.

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