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AEW Dynamite - 5/12/2021


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I think people need to cut AEW a little slack for Blood & Guts being on TV and not PPV. While yes that is pretty dumb, it was done out of necessity.

The same reason the first hour of last week was taped is the reason for why Blood & Guts could not happen on PPV. They are stuck in Daily's Place for now. That is an amphitheater with a partial roof. A roof not rated strong enough to hang the cage from. So you have to have it already set up when people come in. It has to open a show, or have no other matches happening before / after. It just is what it is. And the Blood & Guts cage is not something that can just be put together in 20 minutes while they vamp, like WWE used to do with the big bar blue cage. It takes hours & hours to setup / tear down when they can't hang it from the roof.

So they had to do it like this while being in Daily's Place. Just some food for thought.

(Apologies if this actually came up. I haven't caught up past page 3 yet. Just felt the need to get this point out there.)

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3 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I think people need to cut AEW a little slack for Blood & Guts being on TV and not PPV. While yes that is pretty dumb, it was done out of necessity.

The same reason the first hour of last week was taped is the reason for why Blood & Guts could not happen on PPV. They are stuck in Daily's Place for now. That is an amphitheater with a partial roof. A roof not rated strong enough to hang the cage from. So you have to have it already set up when people come in. It has to open a show, or have no other matches happening before / after. It just is what it is. And the Blood & Guts cage is not something that can just be put together in 20 minutes while they vamp, like WWE used to do with the big bar blue cage. It takes hours & hours to setup / tear down when they can't hang it from the roof.

So they had to do it like this while being in Daily's Place. Just some food for thought.

(Apologies if this actually came up. I haven't caught up past page 3 yet. Just felt the need to get this point out there.)

While this is all fair and logical, they did originally plan to do Blood & Guts on Dynamite when they were still touring. So they always conceived of it as something to run on TV. 

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2 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

While this is all fair and logical, they did originally plan to do Blood & Guts on Dynamite when they were still touring. So they always conceived of it as something to run on TV. 

That is true, and a fair point. Keep in mind that was a big arena that they could hang the cage from, so they wouldn't have the only one match restriction they had at Daily's Place.

But I was speaking more to the complaining how Blood & Guts was step one in the story leading to Stadium Stampede. It's one of those things man. When you have to wear the promoter hat sometimes you have to weigh pros and cons. This feud makes sense for Blood & Guts. But the only way it fits in the feud due to the current setup restrictions, was to do it in the beginning. Blood & Guts as step one of the story, in theory, sucks. But it was either that or not at all. And I don't think enough people understand that. It wasn't created this way by choice. It was by necessity.

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4 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

That is true, and a fair point. Keep in mind that was a big arena that they could hang the cage from, so they wouldn't have the only one match restriction they had at Daily's Place.

But I was speaking more to the complaining how Blood & Guts was step one in the story leading to Stadium Stampede. It's one of those things man. When you have to wear the promoter hat sometimes you have to weigh pros and cons. This feud makes sense for Blood & Guts. But the only way it fits in the feud due to the current setup restrictions, was to do it in the beginning. Blood & Guts as step one of the story, in theory, sucks. But it was either that or not at all. And I don't think enough people understand that. It wasn't created this way by choice. It was by necessity.

They always had a choice of when to run it, even if it were a couple months from now when they're touring again. How they formatted last week's TV was only a necessity once they made that choice, I think most people understand that. 

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I feel like it’s also worth noting that, in the Year of Our Lord 2021, popping a big rating for Dynamite is significantly more impactful on AEW’s long-term financial solvency than picking up a little extra change by running it on PPV.  I mean, if 10,000 extra people were to pay for DoN because of B&G, that’s still a drop in the bucket compared to what B&G as a TV special can potentially do for AEW’s next TV rights deal.  The idea that big stuff gets saved for PPV is an antiquated concept when the TV money is as huge as it’s gotten.

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So the PPV is on the weekend of some patriotic holiday for Americans, or something. So possibly that's why Cody's doing the America Fuck Yeah speech after getting buried in a flag the week before. Still makes no sense. If Ogogo is an anti American heel, why is he in a stable with four Americans?

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I would rather Cody get into the details of how he and Dustin helped train Ogogo and get him ready for this spot, but not only does he cheap shot them, he's disrespectful enough to bury him under the Union Jack. And then say something like he brought him into this world of wrestling and he can just as easily take him out and he's no one's meal ticket.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

Pancho and Lefty for Hangman

To be clear that'd be a Townes Van Zandt classic for the Hangman.  And how bout a Willie Nelson ‘Always on My Mind’ highlight video for all of Cody’s achievements! 

Irrational Cody hate meter seems to be reading deep in the red this week.  Call me crazy but I kinda dug the ridiculousness of that promo and the outmoded America rah rah.  This guy places himself clearly in the lower to mid portion of the card, and puts himself in a feud with a bunch of unknowns, and ppl still cry foul.  Or ‘what an ego’!  A wrestler with an ego is not so rare.  What is rare is a wrestler in his position of power not exploiting it with title belts and main events - which he would absolutely have reason to have or be in.  Anyway, dug his fire (and hilarity) here and look forward to another fun match at the ppv.  

14 hours ago, DEAN said:

The Troggs were so punk rock.  They ruled.   and that Allin/Miro match ruled!

Obviously Jimi had the magic touch and X was a terrific punk band, but nobody touches the Troggs OG 45.  Mox’s Entrance with this Major League theme was the highlight of the night.  Awesome purchase by the Khans. 

Edited by HarryArchieGus
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31 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

They always had a choice of when to run it, even if it were a couple months from now when they're touring again. How they formatted last week's TV was only a necessity once they made that choice, I think most people understand that. 

Did anyone have a clear picture of if / when AEW could start on the road back at the beginning of March? That's when they did the MJF turn / Pinnacle formation angle. March 10th. I'd say the rough outline of what they were doing for the feud had been formulated at least a week or two before that. So if you feel like A) they could wait until the end of May to have the first match (Stadium Stamped at DoN) and B) they knew they'd be back on the road by July and just didn't care... well okay I won't fight you on that. But I disagree. I personally don't think they had any idea when they could get back on the road back at the beginning of March when the backbone for the story was created. So from my point of view I'm not going to hold it against them trying to do the best they could with what they knew at the time. If you don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt, that's okay. But I do wish people would factor in the realities of their limitations.

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29 minutes ago, AxB said:

So the PPV is on the weekend of some patriotic holiday for Americans, or something. So possibly that's why Cody's doing the America Fuck Yeah speech after getting buried in a flag the week before. Still makes no sense. If Ogogo is an anti American heel, why is he in a stable with four Americans?

Memorial Day is a bit like your Remembrance Day.

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Wild show. 

- Darby vs Miro was ridiculously good. They have REALLY good chemistry. Best Miro match in years and I dunno, maybe Darby's best performance?

- Didn't have any issue with the Cody promo. He basically just did one of his dad's old promos, complete with dropping a Willie Nelson quote. It's such a throwback angle with the flag burying and the cocky Englishman running down America and Cody for ONE NIGHT ONLY representing the hopes and dreams of America. It's fabulous in all the way that so much of wrestling isn't these days. I dunno, I don't get worked up on it being problematic because the absurdity is he's feuding with an Englishman. You can't cut the promo on Jinder Mahal. This is like when fans get a little too into an English vs USA soccer match. It's a 'safe' way to be, maybe ironically or even unironically, patriotic over an event. 

- I would have liked to have kept Jericho off a week too too but then I also remembered that Mick Foley did a fucking run in at the main event of King of the Ring after being thrown off the cell and since everyone thought the stunt looked shitty anyway it's especially cheesy to pretend he's in a hospital bed. The fact that his arm was in a cast actually worked better for the realism. We know he's not dead but the fall fucked him up and now we don't know if he'll be 100 percent. I would have done a different finish in the cage but it's not a huge issue. 

 

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I didn't watch the Cody stuff because you all told me it was bad and I believe you.

IWGP U.S. Heavyweight Championship Match: Jon Moxley (c) vs. Yuji Nagata 

I know Moxley is not supposed to be Steve Austin but the idea of our somewhat crazy, everyman baby face throwing forearm exchanges is pretty limp. If you're going to be raking eyes anyway, there is no reason for him to be throwing hands. I cannot see how this did anything but appeal to the most hardcore fanbase which AEW already has. It was libel to push away any casual audience who turned in to see fallout from last week.

AEW World Tag Team Championship Match: The Young Bucks (c) vs. SCU – “SCU will Break Up if they Lose” 

You sure showed those WWE fans from 13 years ago. Kaz looked on point and Daniels looked ready to retire. I don't think SCU really put over the desperation of the stipulation other than Daniels blading. The roll up, catch Northern Lights suplex spot was pretty good highlighted by Mat making sure he got a shoulder up when Nick came down. Nick looked better with the goatee to me. Gallows and Anderson are terrible just standing there. Referee Knox got distracted clearly on purpose because he's terrible. How are they still dealing with referee issues this late in the game?

AEW World Championship Eliminator Match: #1 Ranked Orange Cassidy vs. #2 Ranked PAC – “Winner Faces Kenny Omega at Double or Nothing” 

I will say for the obvious injury issue, Pac gave Cassidy every opportunity in the world to get his wits back. Play to the crowd, gently push Cassidy out of the ring, side headlock... all just trying to buy time since AEW's training staff and referees don't know how to protect anyone and take a year to get out there. The match before that was pretty bad. 

TNT Championship Match: Darby Allin (c) (w/Sting) vs. Miro 

Best piece of work, got everyone over. Allin looks great in defeat (I would have milked the Game Over a bit more and had the referee stop it). Miro looks like a killer.  They spent too much time on the outside during the sleeper segment (AEW referees just fucking suck) but all in all, a great effort from the talent. They didn't need the cavalcade of 13 people at the end. They would have been better off just letting Miro vamp and maybe showing Scorpio and Page in the audience for a second or two and showing Sting look concerned. 

AEW Tries to be WWE again in a Chris Jericho segment

Just stop it will you? Like how many times do you have to fail trying to do these big set piece things before you understand you SUCK AT THEM.

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9 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Did anyone have a clear picture of if / when AEW could start on the road back at the beginning of March? That's when they did the MJF turn / Pinnacle formation angle. March 10th. I'd say the rough outline of what they were doing for the feud had been formulated at least a week or two before that. So if you feel like A) they could wait until the end of May to have the first match (Stadium Stamped at DoN) and B) they knew they'd be back on the road by July and just didn't care... well okay I won't fight you on that. But I disagree. I personally don't think they had any idea when they could get back on the road back at the beginning of March when the backbone for the story was created. So from my point of view I'm not going to hold it against them trying to do the best they could with what they knew at the time. If you don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt, that's okay. But I do wish people would factor in the realities of their limitations.

They announced Blood & Guts on April 7 IIRC. Jim Ross was talking publicly two weeks later about getting back on the road in July. Even if they didn't know exactly when, I'll go out on the limb and assume they knew they were close. I think everyone is aware of the specific limitations of running the match in Daily's Place. I just disagree with the notion that running the match there and now and in that way was a necessity. And I'm glad you won't fight me on that. 

And to be perfectly clear, I'm not even arguing that the match should have been on PPV. I just think they made a choice to run it there, rather than being forced into it by the circumstances. 

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5 minutes ago, Hagan said:

Didn't have any issue with the Cody promo. He basically just did one of his dad's old promos, complete with dropping a Willie Nelson quote. It's such a throwback angle with the flag burying and the cocky Englishman running down America and Cody for ONE NIGHT ONLY representing the hopes and dreams of America. It's fabulous in all the way that so much of wrestling isn't these days. I dunno, I don't get worked up on it being problematic because the absurdity is he's feuding with an Englishman. You can't cut the promo on Jinder Mahal. This is like when fans get a little too into an English vs USA soccer match. It's a 'safe' way to be, maybe ironically or even unironically, patriotic over an event. 

I understand what you're saying, and why you liked it - It was just very, very WWF to me. I wasn't offended by it, and in no way do I think it's problematic, I just thought it sucked. The patriotic stuff can be done well today, I think. The Cena/Miro US Title match at WM that year with the tank is a decent example, I think. This was just weird.

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34 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

This guy places himself clearly in the lower to mid portion of the card, and puts himself in a feud with a bunch of unknowns, and ppl still cry foul.  Or ‘what an ego’!

That adds to the frustration for me.  I appreciate that he's lower down the card and the feud with Nightmare Factory has so far been good.  But I can think of many different ways to make a match with Ogogo feel important without going all "America!  Fuck yeah!"  Even if he did a cocky promo about the school it would have been worlds better than what we got and helped make QT's group feel more relevant.  I love TK and appreciate him letting the talent do their thing but he needs to know when to stop things before they happen.

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43 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

To be clear that'd be a Townes Van Zandt classic for the Hangman.  And how bout a Willie Nelson ‘Always on My Mind’ highlight video for all of Cody’s achievements! 

Irrational Cody hate meter seems to be reading deep in the red this week.  Call me crazy but I kinda dug the ridiculousness of that promo and the outmoded America rah rah.  This guy places himself clearly in the lower to mid portion of the card, and puts himself in a feud with a bunch of unknowns, and ppl still cry foul.  Or ‘what an ego’!  A wrestler with an ego is not so rare.  What is rare is a wrestler in his position of power not exploiting it with title belts and main events - which he would absolutely have reason to have or be in. 

Cody is above the title. Cody is above the main event. Cody is AEW's raison d'être. 

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Posted (edited)

It does my heart so good to see so many of you on the Cody Hate Train.  The train is licensed by the DOT, by the way.  Hop onboard.  All are welcome.

Fuck all y'all, Mox should be using the Sam Kinison version of Wild Thing.

Moxley and Nagata, big fight feel!  NICE.  Cameras tracking them from backstage, seconds accompanying them, and a fucking tremendous match.  God DAMN, what a way to start a wrestling show if you want to present something really cool and different.  How can the same people who produced that produce...

...that Cody promo?  Holy fuck, what a lunkhead.  Cody heard the business had been set back 30 years so he figured it was cool to do a promo and angle from 1985.  I think I rolled my eyes so much during this bullshit that I broke my Lasik.  "Use your unborn child's biracial status for a face pop" is so carny that the ghost of Herb Abrahms said "holy shit dude that's a little much."  And you can't start a promo with something like "I know America is just coming out of some dogshit years and jingo promos don't work anymore" and then proceed to cut a jingo promo.  Holy fucking shit the balls on this guy.

All that being said, Cody is a really good worker and, considering the Shaq match, should put something really good together with Ogogo.  Another feather in the "AEW is really an old school promotion who does it right" hat is how they book guys like Ogogo.  Guys who need help.  They'll accent what he CAN do instead of exposing him and then getting rid of him because GODDAMIT PAL I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN THIS GUY.  

I was all set to shit all over OC/Pac until I found out OC was concussed and that finish was booked on the fly.  That was some bad luck, there.  I hope OC is okay.

I love paranoid lunatic Kenny who just yells stuff over and over.  GIMME MY GLASSES GIMME MY GLASSES GIMME MY GLASSES GIMME MY GLASSES GIMME MY GLASSES

When talking about shit best left in the past, right up there with "big bumps onto crash pads" is "spraying your arch-rival with something."  As soon as I saw the bubby logo on that vehicle, I groaned.  

The Bucks/SCU match was great.  Just so well done.  Matt Jackson getting mad at his former friend for bleeding on his Jordans was some incredible heel work.  I liked all the close finishes and really bought, for a little while, that Daniels would come back and win it.  I could have gone without the TO THE BACK ending just to see Mox and King do the most uninspired destruction of a dressing room in history. I'm thankful that a) they did show some postmatch after the break and b) Kazarian didn't turn on Daniels in the postmatch.  

Miro vs Darby was just kinda okay.  It was really brought down by how looooooong they went with the pre-match beatdown.  It really strains refs' kayfabe credibility past the breaking point when you book something like that.  I kinda didn't want to see Miro win the match but that's fine.

Oof Sammy was not great in that promo.  On the plus side, who knew Ortiz could bring it like that?  Hell yeah, Ortiz.  Even Jake Hager was decent.  Damn, Sammy, when you're #3 in a three person promo that includes Jake Hager, you need to pick it up.

Speaking of promos, Hangman was GREAT shit-talking Brian Cage to goad him into another match.

Darby's fucking tope suicida.  I have never seen one like that before.  No catching, just impact.  Miro went one way and Daby just FLEW the other.  Christ.

I like AEW a whole bunch but they need to have one vision on these shows because this shit is so disjointed.  LIke I said, how do you have Mox/Nagata on the same show as Cody spooging red white and blue everywhere?  How do you have Bucks/SCU and then also have the beer truck redux?  TK mentioned that things had gone off the rails in late 2019 because he was listening to too many different people and that he had to shore things up a bit.  So what the hell is this?  Come on, guys.

 

Edited by Technico Support
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

It's quite fascinating that, arguably, 18 months into the promotion's existence Cody, the Bucks, Omega, JR and Jericho are the *worst* parts of the program (with the Bucks definitely on the upswing now, and Omega maybe stabilizing a bit). 

As for that Cody promo, woo boy. An all timer of Babyface Promo Cliche Bingo: pandering to the town, pandering to the owner, mention your kid, mention America, foreign menace, mention stars of the past....

Cody & Jericho yes. I'll await to see what happens at Stadium Stampede .. but I'll assume Jericho will be pandered to. Omega & Bucks have both however evolved into stronger parts of the show; I will give them big kudos for seeing what was wrong and evolving. I was a Jericho fan for years and still love his body of work .. but he, alongside of Cody, have evolved into carny, self-serving parodies. JR's fine: no doubt in it for the paycheck, but he's hardly front and centre and does add relative value. Jericho & Rhodes much more detrimental to the active product.

Edited by A_K
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4 minutes ago, A_K said:

Cody & Jericho yes. I'll await to see what happens at Stadium Stampede .. but I'll assume Jericho will be pandered to. Omega & Bucks have both however evolved into stronger parts of the show; I will give them big kudos for seeing what was wrong and evolving. I was a Jericho fan for years and still love his body of work .. but he, alongside of Cody, have evolved into carny, self-serving parodies. JR's fine: no doubt in it for the paycheck, but he's hardly front and centre and does add relative value. Jericho & Rhodes much more detrimental to the active product.

I've never really lumped in Jericho with Cody and JR but I do see your point.  I've always been wary of Cody and JR as being guys who brought the worst old school tendencies to the new promotion that's supposed to be anything but that.  But I'm assuming last night's Austin/Angle cosplay was all Jericho and man, what a joke.  It's funny how the guys you mention as  evolving are the guys who haven't been part of the WWE system while the ones who are living in the past and dragging it down are guys who spent a LOT of time there and seemingly can't shake their way of doing things.  The Cody and Jericho segments were so out of place and inconsistent with the rest of the show.  I don't know how AEW keeps this going and I feel like they're in for some kind of reckoning where Khan has to figure out exactly what this company is supposed to be.

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27 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

don't know how AEW keeps this going and I feel like they're in for some kind of reckoning where Khan has to figure out exactly what this company is supposed to be.

I think reckoning is a super strong word, but I do agree that the show definitely needs a more cohesive overarching tone. Not saying it needs to be "super-serious NJPW USA pure sports fuck you" all the time, but if they're going to position themselves as the new alternative, they absolutely cannot be doing beer trucks and foreign heels.

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Did anyone else notice that Miro pulled out that king-sized gutwrench after the gif of Nathan Jones wrecking Jarrett was going around this week? For maybe the first time ever something can be described as Nathan Jones-esque and it’s a positive.

On the point about Cody being disconnected from the rest of the show. Isn’t it a bit strange that he’s not being brought into the Kenny/Bucks angle at all? There should surely be some tension there with the other EVPs becoming total dickheads. 

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Between the did-he-mean-to-say-that 'you didn't come here to live the England Dream', listing Gabriel Kidd as among the best wrestlers the UK has produced and not knowing what irony is, that was a textbook if stereotypical dumb American heel promo.

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1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

I've never really lumped in Jericho with Cody and JR but I do see your point.  I've always been wary of Cody and JR as being guys who brought the worst old school tendencies to the new promotion that's supposed to be anything but that.  But I'm assuming last night's Austin/Angle cosplay was all Jericho and man, what a joke.  It's funny how the guys you mention as  evolving are the guys who haven't been part of the WWE system while the ones who are living in the past and dragging it down are guys who spent a LOT of time there and seemingly can't shake their way of doing things.  The Cody and Jericho segments were so out of place and inconsistent with the rest of the show.  I don't know how AEW keeps this going and I feel like they're in for some kind of reckoning where Khan has to figure out exactly what this company is supposed to be.

Yeah - I’m not even sure it’s a hangover of the WWE system so much as Jericho + Cody are both just very much “Me, me, me” personalities. I thought, with Jericho, that came across quite vividly in his Broken Skull interview, where he kind of portrayed himself, without any sense of humour, as the guy who has carried AEW on his back. These are the kind of personalities who would be put firmly back in their box in a corporate WWE setting, but are allowed a little too much leeway here. Some of the other ex-WWE guys seem very much team-players, so may be more a character-thing than heritage-thing. They’ll blow themselves out soon anyway, I have no doubt of that.

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5 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

I really want to talk about literally anything else but I checked how long Cody's promo went.  It was surprisingly 6 minutes but it felt like it was 12.  I don't know if I'm as upset about it as Craig but on rewatch I was just incredibly frustrated about it all.  I would dare say that he could have a nice and tight 3 minute promo that states his case and that's it.  But it was meandering to start with and went way off the rails after the second minute.  I don't understand what he was going for but it was a big-time miss.  And considering he's feuding with Nightmare Factory I would have focused much more on that with maybe a tiny fraction of it for the flag-draping part.  But nope, we got what we got and man did it suck.

One thing that gives me hope is that at the beginning I swear I heard a couple boos.  Whenever full crowds happen again I would think he'll get the message that some of this stuff just isn't working.  It just sucks because I feel there's a good face in Cody yet after the MFJ feud it went off the rails super fast.

That promo was abhorrent. It made me never want to see another Cody Rhodes promo ever again.

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