AEW TV - 10/2 - 10/8/2024 - Like I'm Livin' A Top Flight Dream

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

5 minutes ago, AxB said:

She's mostly going by Suzy Izzard now. Although she's sort of keeping her former name too, for promotional purposes... and currently touring the USA apparently.

She’s Suzy in her personal life and Eddie in her professional life. She tweeted about it last year.

[Zimbra]

7 minutes ago, Sex Machine Gun said:

We really need to get rid of the Scapegoat bus. While typing this I just realized it makes me think of Wacky Races and I can't lose it.

I know I'm 43 because every time I see footage of him driving the bus I'm looking at the exhaust and thinking about how much oil that engine is burning.

[Kevin Wilson]

I'd love for them to swerve us a little and Yuta either doesn't turn on Danielson or just goes ham on all of them. That can set up Yuta vs. Pac or Claudio so give him a feud while keeping Danielson focused on Mox. Sometimes the obvious thing is still the right thing but I think in this case there are more interesting options.

[Curt McGirt]

23 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Give him a break, the post-WWE cult deprogrammer is still working on him.

Deprogrammer: say "title shot"

Ricochet: championship opportunity

Deprogrammer: (whacks Ricochet with a broom handle)

This reminded me of inviting my dad to watch The Texas Chainsaw Massacre with me when I was a kid about 3/4 of the way through, Marilyn Burns ended up being beaten with the broom by Jim Siedow, and it was so uncomfortable I had to turn off the video 

Anyway I have missed three pages of this thread so I'm just gonna skip ahead

- Everybody seemed to be working fairly slow-paced on this show. The funny thing is I'm watching the replay and only caught the main event last night, and Okada immediately made me think of Larry Zybysko... and go figure, they were in Pittsburgh. He was a little light on the impact of his strikes but it was one of the best performances I've seen him pull off. Being a heel in America has just done wonders for the man. 

- Ricochet/Ospreay kind of set the pace period, which you wouldn't really expect to be something they would set as so laid back, but I guess they wanted to do something different. It was still pretty much Video Game Wrestling but if I'm gonna watch either of these two guys I want to watch them against each other. There was some crazy shit that I swear I've never seen before unless it was in Lucha Underground, like the rana on the barricade or Ricochet doing a Sabu-style ass-bounce off the ropes into a senton. 

- The Jericho comments were pretty low and Mark should have busted him open. One hit with the mic was NOT enough. 

- Juicey Boy! Him having a big singles match was great. Hangman is balancing the craziness with a sense of doubt (I suppose the "anxious millenial" deal) very well. More neurotic than a straight heel. The cannonball through the barricade and the White return were great. 

- SHELTON~! And maybe Mone in the group? Bobby being the other foot to drop will be an enormous pop. 

- You forget about some of the craziness AEW's been up to for a long time, like Moxley dumping Jericho through a glass table. Someday somebody is gonna make a supercut of all of them I'm sure, and it'll be wild. 

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, caley said:

I wonder how much AEW fans ACTUALLY watch Collision/Rampage because seems to be a notable lack of heat for wrestlers mostly relegated to those shows (Save FTR and Christian). I'm mostly saying this in reference to Aminata's save because that crowd could not have cared less. But I have noticed it in the past with other wrestlers too (IIRC Mortos got a pretty lacklustre response until he started Mortos things which woke the crowd up pretty fast).

 

The best part of the Aminata save was watching Britt shun her, not once but twice, so as not to share the spotlight.  I invite everyone to go back and watch because it’s hilarious.  First, Aminata has her arm around Britt and is helping her up, and Britt shoves her away.  Then Aminata raises Britt’s hand and Britt yanks her arm away.  Real Hogan-level shit.  And no, paintedbynumbers has not hacked my account

[Log]

30 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

- The Jericho comments were pretty low and Mark should have busted him open. One hit with the mic was NOT enough.

I was hoping they'd avoid the tired and cheap "He's dead!" thing that Christian has been doing, but at least they kept it to just "He was better". I thought Jericho getting under Mark's skin by just saying that Jay was better would've been at least more respectful to Jay, really praising him for being great.

I actually liked Mark's restrained response. Did you notice how his voice changed? He turned off "fun" Mark and the exaggerated accent went away. That was cool.

[MoeCristyV.1.6]

1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

- You forget about some of the craziness AEW's been up to for a long time, like Moxley dumping Jericho through a glass table. Someday somebody is gonna make a supercut of all of them I'm sure, and it'll be wild. 

I remember Kenny Omega getting Deathridden through a glas table. When was that Against Jericho, because I don't remember that one?

[Nice Guy Eddie]

I'm all aboard for Jay White vs. Adam Page. That was quite the pop when Switchblade's theme hit. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

50 minutes ago, Log said:

I was hoping they'd avoid the tired and cheap "He's dead!" thing that Christian has been doing, but at least they kept it to just "He was better". I thought Jericho getting under Mark's skin by just saying that Jay was better would've been at least more respectful to Jay, really praising him for being great.

I actually liked Mark's restrained response. Did you notice how his voice changed? He turned off "fun" Mark and the exaggerated accent went away. That was cool.

Co-signed, I also liked the presentation of that, and I really, really liked the touch at the end where after Mark smacks Jericho, Jericho's down on the mat but he still tells Bill/Keith to stand down - like even Jericho himself knew he might've gone a bit too far.

I've made no secret about the fact I'm not digging this Learning Tree stuff, even if I do like all involved, but if I can find one positive in it, it's the little flourishes like that (or for another example, the one a couple weeks back on Collision where Jericho said 'If someone wants to be your friend, they're just using you' and Bill sideeyed him for a second).

Moving forward: I wonder if our endgame is Bill/Keith preemptively turning on Jericho before he can do anything to them. A lot of Jericho's previous stablemates have moved on, but as a story beat, it might be some nice closure to that early-era Inner Circle/JAS stuff to have a super group of Bill, Keith, and let's say Guevara, Daddy Magic, Ortiz, and Anna Jay giving Jericho his "ultimate" comeuppance (which you can then use to give Jericho a nice vacation to freshen up, and maybe even a babyface turn). Not even saying as a formal stable, but just coming together for a beatdown as a visual signifier that basically everything he's done since losing the title to Mox years ago is now coming back to haunt him

Edited October 3, 2024 by Zakk_Sabbath
word

[Log]

22 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Moving forward: I wonder if our endgame is Bill/Keith preemptively turning on Jericho before he can do anything to them. A lot of Jericho's previous stablemates have moved on, but as a story beat, it might be some nice closure to that early-era Inner Circle/JAS stuff to have a super group of Bill, Keith, and let's say Guevara, Daddy Magic, Ortiz, and Anna Jay giving Jericho his "ultimate" comeuppance (which you can then use to give Jericho a nice vacation to freshen up, and maybe even a babyface turn). Not even saying as a formal stable, but just coming together for a beatdown as a visual signifier that basically everything he's done since losing the title to Mox years ago is now coming back to haunt him

I like that a lot. The Learning Tree taught them a little too well.

[HarryArchieGus]

3 hours ago, caley said:

I wonder how much AEW fans ACTUALLY watch Collision/Rampage because seems to be a notable lack of heat for wrestlers mostly relegated to those shows (Save FTR and Christian). I'm mostly saying this in reference to Aminata's save because that crowd could not have cared less. But I have noticed it in the past with other wrestlers too (IIRC Mortos got a pretty lacklustre response until he started Mortos things which woke the crowd up pretty fast).

So very true, and a good reason why it would benefit everyone to devote a modicum of time highlighting anything that needs to be reiterated on the 'A' show. Or giving somebody highlighted on those shows like Aminata some promo time with some weekend highlights leading in or as part of a package. Not unlike how they used all the Dynamite highlights throughout this episode. 

It's been a great 5 year run with plenty of room to improve - better narrative development, timing, promotion, production, etc.  

2 hours ago, Zimbra said:

I know I'm 43 because every time I see footage of him driving the bus I'm looking at the exhaust and thinking about how much oil that engine is burning.

I'm not sure environmental ignorance is an age thing. The thoughtlessness is shared from teens to seniors.

Along with a lot more exhaust fumes, I'd like to see a bit more consistency with Jack littering as he comes out of his (Very, very scary) bus. I'd also like to see him paired with a nutty mechanic sidekick who looks after the bus while Jack makes his bookings. 

Edited October 3, 2024 by HarryArchieGus

[EVA]

A couple weeks ago they did the terrible WWE thing where the camera lingered on Bill making a Deep Contemplation face after Jericho said you should never trust anybody who says they’re your friend in wrestling, so that is definitley the long-term direction. 

[Log]

How did I never notice that Darby talks just like Aaron Paul until last night?

[Zakk_Sabbath]

1 minute ago, EVA said:

A couple weeks ago they did the terrible WWE thing where the camera lingered on Bill making a Deep Contemplation face after Jericho said you should never trust anybody who says they’re your friend in wrestling, so that is definitley the long-term direction. 

I totally get what you mean, but I actually liked it here! Not sure why, because I usually 100% agree on those types of tropes being used -  honestly, and it's a simple answer, but maybe it just didn't clock as "WWE" to my brain cause I really like Bill

[HarryArchieGus]

1 minute ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I totally get what you mean, but I actually liked it here! Not sure why, because I usually 100% agree on those types of tropes being used -  honestly, and it's a simple answer, but maybe it just didn't clock as "WWE" to my brain cause I really like Bill

I thought it was much more subtle than WWE. 

[Craig H]

That Ricochet vs Ospreay match didn’t change my mind that WWE broke Ricochet. He still moves so much slower, isn’t as smooth, and this is now his third or fourth match where he’s looked gassed.

I liked the rest of the show.

[Craig H]

Oh, and wild Hangman rules the fucking world. Can you imagine him doing the scary heel thing in Japan and making kids cry?

[AxB]

17 minutes ago, Craig H said:

That Ricochet vs Ospreay match didn’t change my mind that WWE broke Ricochet. He still moves so much slower, isn’t as smooth, and this is now his third or fourth match where he’s looked gassed.

I liked the rest of the show.

I mean, it's possible that he's trying to work himself back into shape and get his speed back up, but... seeing them do the same opening exchanges they were doing 7 years ago, only noticeably slower and less smooth, that was a real downer.

You would think that the intervening period would have affected Ospreay's athleticism more, because he's so much bulkier now than he was then, but he still moves around about the same as he used to. Age can't be that much of a factor either, given that Ospreay's gone from 24 to 31 years old, whilst Ricochet has gone from 28 to 35. And the schedule... Ricochet was in NXT for a good few of those years, and then working WWE Speed length matches when he was touring, whilst Ospreay's done how many G1s and Tokyo Dome main events? 

Possibly Ricochet can wash the Performance Centre out of himself and regain his previous form. Possibly this is just who he is now.

[HarryArchieGus]

25 minutes ago, Craig H said:

That Ricochet vs Ospreay match didn’t change my mind that WWE broke Ricochet. He still moves so much slower, isn’t as smooth, and this is now his third or fourth match where he’s looked gassed.

I liked the rest of the show.

Reading this comment makes me feel privileged to have seen so little of his pre-WWE run. I thought this match with Ospreay was excellent. I saw an Ospreay-Ricochet match from pre-WWE, and it was definitely faster, but also with the far more challenging logic. I'm sure there's something lost in those 7 years performing standard WWE style, but I also think he may have gained something in the psychology department. I thoroughly loved the pace and most everything about this Ospreay match - less so the restart finish. I also thought his previous matches with Guevara and Beast were nice 'building' showcases. The WWE to AEW jump does generally take a little time of adjustment, but I'd say he's ahead of many of those that tried before him.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

15 minutes ago, AxB said:

Possibly Ricochet can wash the Performance Centre out of himself and regain his previous form. Possibly this is just who he is now.

I know I harp on it constantly, most recently after Britt/Mercedes at Wembley, so I apologize in advance for the repetition, but IMO this is where bringing back Dark or establishing a small, formal house show circuit would really help. Ricochet has only had four singles matches since coming in, with this being the longest by far - certainly the lighter schedule is a positive, I'm not calling for anyone to be out 300 days a year again or anything crazy, but you gotta assume that him getting another couple reps in before this one would've been helpful

Edited October 3, 2024 by Zakk_Sabbath
ETA - not that I thought he looked all that bad, btw

[JLowe]

I enjoyed the show overall, and the things I didn’t like are pretty much the things I haven’t been liking for a while now (Perry and the Private Party push being the main ones here).

My exposure to Ricochet has been his AEW matches, and my exposure to Ospreay has been AEW plus maybe once or twice in very late ‘10s New Japan TV. I saw a lot of crazy things in that match that were an amazing spectacle of balance, acrobatics, and timing (mostly). Mirror spots are getting very old to me but I enjoyed the rope handspring hero pose deal. The story was two guys trying to prove to each other that they’re better now than they were in 2016 while mostly doing that 2026 match as I understand it. Anyway, fun match with no stakes beyond the Callis family storyline. The double pin was frustrating to me because there was a match with Mortos a few weeks back where the ref didn’t count a pin because Mortos wasn’t making a full effort for a cover (or something like that), and in this case only one of the men was actively trying for a pin fall. Finally, so much for my “turning Takeshita face” dreams.

Britt is washed, there is something psychological going on. She just seems lost, forgetting relatively simple wrestling 101 things. Her effort on some moves and strikes was comically bad, like Orange Cassidy but supposedly actually trying. Deeb tried valiantly to carry, and it mostly worked. Someone here pointed out how Britt repeatedly blew off Aminata after the save, which bothered me at the time.

The pre-match Page-Juice brawl was a fun mix of big bumps and comedy work. Hard for me to take Juice too seriously when it looks like he’s wrestling in Hanes briefs. The cannonball barrier spot was the highlight of the match. Jay White making the save was a little predictable (but welcome), and I had totally forgotten about Chekov’s table from the crowd brawl!

Willow/Mariah backstage was great and I’m looking forward to that.

Have to admit, I was really into the idea of Okada doing Memphis-style stalling and stooging. Instead, we get a pretty straight-forward match where it’s not just Okada trying to run out the 20-minute clock. These guys work together really well, stiff, great timing, really convincing reversals. The backslide clean pin was a huge shock for me.

other stuff I remember was a pretty solid filmed promo from Darby, Mone and MVP, MVP and a very large Shelton Benjamin, the Gunns making no sense before being cannon fodder, Christie-Ann Cage saying something. Marina saying something. Renee had to dodge a lot of physicality backstage.

[Matt D]

Despite myself, I watched Ricochet vs Ospreay.

• Yes, it's 2010s nostalgia to a degree, but for one match on a celebratory show to highlight, in part, what helped shape a current style and what made their new hire notable, you can't entirely fault them for it.
• It wasn't entirely 50/50, your move, my move. The counter sequences came in bursts generally and then after that someone had control for a bit. It was played up as the wrestler not in control trying to fire back and then both of them trying to counter one another at speed. Normally, it'd annoy me, but I buy into it as strategy and just what these two would do as wrestlers. Yes, almost nothing they did in a good chunk of the match would make a lick of sense if the other one wasn't charging at them, but it made full sense that they'd be charging at one another.
• The looks on their faces is what made the match, not the counters or the moves. Ospreay played to the crowd well. He was into moments. Ricochet was clearly expressing his frustration and a competitive antagonism. Sometimes it was over the top and not nuanced enough but he's shaking off some of the old trappings.
• For the most part, they sold. There were a few times that they popped up too quickly, but it was generally because they were hitting a key story beat. More problems on move economy later though.
• Maybe it was a half step slow but I think in some ways that almost helped the match. It rarely felt like they were just waiting for one another for instance, and it put just a tiny patina of grit on it. There were one of two things which didn't end up being smooth and I think they actually added to the match. I'm left wondering Ospreay's stumble on the guardrail right before the early 'rana off the it was intentional or not. It made the match better. My guess is that it wasn't.
• The crowd wasn't great but you can't really blame them. This was babyface vs babyface in a nostalgia match. The wrestlers were at least miming competitiveness but the fans just wanted to see cool stuff. It's almost a testament to them that they were reacting to anything in the match even if only from a sensation standpoint and not actual emotional engagement. They really didn't like the double pin. They really hated the Takeshita interference. Maybe if they loved the double pin, I'd feel otherwise.
• I don't entirely think there was the proper sense of escalation in the match. If you mapped it out as a narrative, highs and lows and peaks and builds, I don't think you'd get a completely coherent story. In any specific moment or one minute period you'd probably be fine. But it was supposed to be something of a sprint before the double pin and the quick restart to get heat on Takeshita to set up the PPV. I had no problem with the finish as it was purposeful except for that I don't actually buy that taking both guys out for the double pin. We've seen Ospreay survive a ton more. That double pin didn't feel earned because you can't necessarily work out the value of anything in a match like this. What's a poison-rana worth? What's a Hidden Blade worth? What if Ricochet is the one doing it? Etc. I think that's why people have a problem with the finish as much as anything else. 

[HarryArchieGus]

13 hours ago, JLowe said:

Britt is washed, there is something psychological going on. She just seems lost, forgetting relatively simple wrestling 101 things. Her effort on some moves and strikes was comically bad, like Orange Cassidy but supposedly actually trying. Deeb tried valiantly to carry, and it mostly worked. Someone here pointed out how Britt repeatedly blew off Aminata after the save, which bothered me at the time.

The Aminata save has gotten a bit blown out of purportion for the sake of comedy. They're telling a story, and Britt was pissed about the post-match not the Queen. I thought Britt worked very hard and the result was a really great and totally underrated match. Deeb has struggled lately too, but gelled well with the Doctor. I get the strikes criticism on Baker, but that's always been a weakness. Is there a psychological thing going on, or... is she miscast as a babyface? Britt was completely lost in the early days of Dynamite playing a face before finding her place as the heel DMD that everyone loved. Also, what would Swerve Strickland be without Nana, I think it's overlooked what Rebel/Reba brought to Britt's act. I assume the thinking is she's a babyface now as opposed to heel, but Britt should have always maintained her 'mean girl' edge. I thought the exchanges between Baker-Deeb, the mat work, and flow of action were all excellent. Maybe I'm missing something tho, I thought Mercedes v Britt from Wembley was criminally underappreciated. In the early days of this division when it was truly awful there was a demand for more TV time, now it's full of talented ladies having nice matches, but shit upon constantly. It is a real tall task to work in AEW after your name has been sullied by talk of an attitude problem. Whatever happened to get Baker suspended feels like it needs to be spoken about (or manipulated) in a promo to help clear the air. 

[Matt D]

Re: Ricochet/Ospreay: Let me delve a little more actually because I'm still working through it and I can't post this anywhere else.

My biggest issue is that because you can't tell what any move is supposed to mean in the grand scheme of things and relative to anything else ("move economy"), the double pin felt unbelievable and gimmicky and just because they needed it. It felt against every other Ospreay match I've seen this year where he just survives so so much.

I think the purpose behind it was perfectly fine. By restarting the match they manipulated the crowd into thinking "Oh! We were about to get robbed of what we wanted, but now we're going to get it! The grand finale fireworks stretch!" and then it was IMMEDIATELY snatched from them by Takeshita.

So in some ways the existing grand finale before the double pin being a little subdued and not being stuff that would really put Ospreay away kind of worked because it set the stage for the screwjob, but it only worked on paper (and maybe in the moment) because it had issues in reality. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

But I can't figure out how to explain that to anyone in a succinct way. Does it even make sense?

[Curt McGirt]

22 hours ago, Log said:

How did I never notice that Darby talks just like Aaron Paul until last night?

HA! I caught that awhile back. It was killing me that I could think of who it was until I basically heard Darby say "magnets, bitch" in my head and there it was. 

23 hours ago, MoeCristyV.1.6 said:

I remember Kenny Omega getting Deathridden through a glas table. When was that Against Jericho, because I don't remember that one?

It was against Jericho. More of a basic suplex than a Death Rider/Paradigm Shift, but sometimes Moxley does that, and besides it was probably safer. Now Kenny might have just as well taken that too but it could have been a pane of glass or whatever.