All In II - 8/27/2023

[Niners Fan in CT]

2 hours ago, Matt D said:

But, I just don't think Tony ever saw this as his Wrestlemania.

And that's the problem.  You can't say "biggest show of all time!" and have it legit be 80,000 fans and by far their largest gate ever and then book it like any other show. If they want it to be BIG then they need to book it that way.  Also,  how many times is this going to happen?  There's no guarantee that they are ever going to fill another stadium.  There's only one chance to make a first impression. 

[odessasteps]

Maybe the problem they’ve already had “dream match” shows already? And can’t necessarily keep doing those and have them be seem as special.

[Log]

I think it's important for them to keep this an AEW show, too. Not a New Japan/AEW show or whoever.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Then they could have did Mox vs. O.C. for the title and Omega vs. Takeshita in a grudge match.   Sorry if it feels like I'm biased towards trios but I kind of am biased because they've run them into the ground and a singles match feels more important and more personal.  

I do LOVE the idea of Cole/MJF tagging on Zero Hour though and I'll tell you why.   It serves two purposes.  First, it is setting up a story later for the night.  Second, it's some last minute hype for the PPV.  It reminds me of how WWE at one time would use Heat to setup some angles heading into the PPV on Sunday night. 

[w. josh]

Regardless of your perspective on the coin thing, it's a little dumb considering MJF already has a well established weapon he uses to load his fist and win matches. Just have Roddy steal the ring from the locker room and give it to Cole during the match. 

[Zimbra]

8 minutes ago, w. josh said:

Regardless of your perspective on the coin thing, it's a little dumb considering MJF already has a well established weapon he uses to load his fist and win matches. Just have Roddy steal the ring from the locker room and give it to Cole during the match. 

Hell, have Roddy come down and give the ring to MJF.  He gets his payback on Cole for abandoning him and he gets to prove he was right about MJF being a scumbag all in one fell swoop. 

Plus it's an inversion of the finish to the Punk/MJF collar match and if there's one thing TK fucking loves it's calling back to other matches.

[John E. Dynamite]

I love the proposed Elite vs. Bullet Club trios match and if the incessant screeching of the broader internet's adolescent downvote brigade, who will call a card with MJF/Cole, FTR/Bucks & Punk/Joe a house show because they don't get fucking 30-minute Kenny Omega Singles Match Meltzer-bait (or -bate if you'd rather)... God help me, I am going to call a lot of people on the internet stupid.

Edited August 11, 2023 by John E. Dynamite

[John from Cincinnati]

This whole stadium show followed by a PPV a week later combined with attendance record talk is a perfect storm of discourse. I’m thrilled at everything I’ve gotten to roll my eyes at so far, and am looking forward to many rolls to come. “If they want it to be BIG” said in earnest about a show that’s sold 80k tickets, keep it up everybody, we’re doing great. 

They should book Kenny vs Penta in a rematch from the first All In to see how people react. 

[Casey]

4 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

This whole stadium show followed by a PPV a week later combined with attendance record talk is a perfect storm of discourse. I’m thrilled at everything I’ve gotten to roll my eyes at so far, and am looking forward to many rolls to come. “If they want it to be BIG” said in earnest about a show that’s sold 80k tickets, keep it up everybody, we’re doing great. 

They should book Kenny vs Penta in a rematch from the first All In to see how people react. 

Scurll vs Okada 2 incoming boys

[Niners Fan in CT]

80,000 tickets sold so "fuck it, we don't need it to be special and we don't need to sell PPVs"  is a choice.  Good work everyone. 

[Kevin Wilson]

The attendance has definitely broken people's brains. Ignoring the fact that some of the "dream matches" people want can't actually be booked by TK without another promotion's permission. And ignoring the fact that recent injuries probably impacted their plans. And ignoring the fact that a lot of WrestleManias had a handful of big matches and then a bunch of shit. Some people invented in their own heads this was going to be their personal dream match show, with everyone having different ideas of what their dream match would be.

Anyway, I do wish more of the card was announced but I think that about every AEW PPV. At the end of the day, the delivery of the matches is what ultimately matters, not when they were announced or if it hits all the "DREAM MATCH" check boxes. The announced matches so far are pretty solid for a PPV, hopefully they can fill out the rest and have 14 match card full of goodness with a loud and excited crowd.

[odessasteps]

30 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

80,000 tickets sold so "fuck it, we don't need it to be special and we don't need to sell PPVs"  is a choice.  Good work everyone. 

Why try harder when you don’t need to do so? 

[Niners Fan in CT]

16 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Why try harder when you don’t need to do so? 

Sure, but who says they don't need to though?  I was ecstatic to hear the tickets were selling like crazy.  I thought 50,000 would be an unbelievable achievement. They are up to 80,000.  It's an insane number.  It's going to be a historic live gate.  

Does that mean they should forget about the PPV audience?  I don't believe so,  it's bad enough they still haven't moved away from B/R in the U.S.  

You'd think there would be some new eyeballs on this show too, why not try to capitalize on a new audience?   

Whether Tony views it that way or not this is their "WrestleMania" because it's 80,000 people.  

 

[Casey]

Stop comparing shit to WWE. This company isn’t them, and just because they have a high attendance doesn’t mean it’s some sort of WrestleMania equivalent.

The only thing special about Clash at the Castle was the crowd atmosphere, and by your logic that should have been a WrestleMania caliber event because they had 60k+ there. But it was a one match show basically, and the ending was a wet fart and had a pro boxer singing Oasis to send them off the air.

[Just Dave]

1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

80,000 tickets sold so "fuck it, we don't need it to be special and we don't need to sell PPVs"  is a choice.  Good work everyone. 

You should’ve known TK didn’t think the show was special when he put adam Cole in the main event…

[John from Cincinnati]

Imagine going back five years, witnessing the groundswell of support to help the Elite fill a 10k building, and someone telling you: “In five years, there’s going to be a whole company that came out of this filling 80k seats at Wembley with a red hot world title match, the Revival vs Young Bucks, CM Punk vs Samoa Joe, and plenty more to come” and then finding out that people would be talking like they’re half-assing it. 

We’ve come so far. 

[JLowe]

11 minutes ago, just drew said:

You should’ve known TK didn’t think the show was special when he put adam Cole in the main event…

I got to hand it to them though, a month ago I was rolling my eyes at the idea of an MJF-Cole title match and now they’ve actually made me care about it, anticipate it, and make it feel like a proper main event for this huge show.

[Casey]

1 hour ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Imagine going back five years, witnessing the groundswell of support to help the Elite fill a 10k building, and someone telling you: “In five years, there’s going to be a whole company that came out of this filling 80k seats at Wembley with a red hot world title match, the Revival vs Young Bucks, CM Punk vs Samoa Joe, and plenty more to come” and then finding out that people would be talking like they’re half-assing it. 

We’ve come so far. 

I’d probably ask you who’s involved in the red hot title match.

Adam Cole? Oh, okay, that makes sense. He’s tearing it up in NXT right now, friends with the Elite… And MJF? What the fuck? This dude just lost to MDogg20! What’s next, you gonna tell me Joey Ryan and Marty Scurll aren’t big stars on TV?

[zendragon]

5 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

And that's the problem.  You can't say "biggest show of all time!" and have it legit be 80,000 fans and by far their largest gate ever and then book it like any other show. If they want it to be BIG then they need to book it that way.  Also,  how many times is this going to happen?  There's no guarantee that they are ever going to fill another stadium.  There's only one chance to make a first impression. 

counter point WM3 was pretty much a 2 match show with Vince booking those early Mania's like house shows

[Just Dave]

1 hour ago, JLowe said:

I got to hand it to them though, a month ago I was rolling my eyes at the idea of an MJF-Cole title match and now they’ve actually made me care about it, anticipate it, and make it feel like a proper main event for this huge show.

It's a compelling story. Like a good movie starring actors I don't like. I'll probably watch but I'll be rolling my eyes the whole time. Maybe they'll surprise me.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

Likely booking I seem coming out of the MJF / Cole tag match. Or maybe likely isn't the right word but the booking I'd most like to see I guess.

They use this to advance a story. Cole advocated for this match. And he did it altruistically. Wanting to do something cool with his bud. During the match MJF gets an injury. Aussie Open slip over. And then you thread the story through the PPV with promos & trainers room stuff that MJF has figured it out. Adam Cole is a scumbag who did this on purpose to hurt him leading into the biggest match of his life. They work the match and Cole is genuinely sorry for MJF and does not put his foot on the gas. Cue Roddy, Taven, & Bennett during a ref bump. Cole & MJF line up together to battle these assholes. Boom MJF turns on Cole and was never injured. MJF is over super dirty and forms a new Kingdom group.

Cole out on Dynamite and demands a rematch at All Out where he won't hold back. They run the match back with some kind of stipulation. MJF goes over with help from The Kingdom. Adam Cole moves on to teaming with The Young Bucks against Roddy, Taven & Bennett. MJF moves into his next story for Grand Slam (Punk v MJF unification)?

All this is to say even if the booking is different from what I'm predicting,  there's a real storytelling purpose they made this match for. This is their hottest story in a while and you know there's a lot of thought and planing going into it. So I would hope people are actually excited to see how the story plays out and not complaining about Cole & MJF taking spots away from two other people. Who cares? This is prime story telling.

[peachchaos]

35 minutes ago, zendragon said:

counter point WM3 was pretty much a 2 match show with Vince booking those early Mania's like house shows

It's easy to look at III in retrospect as a 2-match show, but out of the 12 matches, 7 of them had storylines going on for months heading into the show (with the 6 man tag even combining two of the stories). It's a company firing on all cylinders. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

2 hours ago, Casey said:

 by your logic that should have been a WrestleMania caliber event because they had 60k+ there

My logic is this is by far the largest attendance AEW has ever had and might ever have.   So yeah maybe it should be a special event. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Niners Fan in CT

[Niners Fan in CT]

1 hour ago, zendragon said:

counter point WM3 was pretty much a 2 match show with Vince booking those early Mania's like house shows

Lol @ "a 2 match show"  when you're talking about the BIGGEST pairing in Hogan and Andre the business had ever seen.  So big that the rematch did 33 million viewers on TV.  

[NoFistsJustFlips]

4 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

My logic is this is by far the largest attendance AEW has ever had and might ever have.   So yeah maybe it should be a special event. 

I understand your thought process. But I don't understand what you're advocating for. Just the specific matches you want?

Punk vs Joe is one of the top 3 or 4 Punk matches they can run. Yes they ran a TV version already within the last month. But if you watched that you saw two guys holding way back. Probably because they knew they'd get more time to tell a better story in a few weeks.

Bucks vs FTR is the biggest tag team title match they can put on. I agree I wish there was more build to it. But they have years of previous history to call upon. While it hasn't been built to cleanly, this is a dream match for sure.

MJF vs Cole is the hottest story they have had in awhile. This is hotter than the 4 pillars match that actually main evened the actual "AEW WrestleMania". Double or Nothing was their first PPV the one they view as the biggest of the 4.

Jericho vs Osprey is janky. But it has story build behind it. They just haven't finished telling the story yet. Callis put a wedge between Jericho & his family. Now when Jericho agrees to join Callis, he goes whoa whoa whoa Chris you're just not Callis Family material. I just wanted to introduce you to my newest client, and make sure you didn't have any friends to interrupt this introduction. Then Osreay gets him from behind. Instant match justification.

Omega/Hangman/Ibushi vs Takeshta/White/Juice sounds DOPE AS FUCK to me. That match is going to be 10x hotter than Omega vs Takeshta alone, in my opinion. I also fully believe the thought process here to give each Callis story a spotlight singles match between the two shows. The Callis Jericho stuff gets All in the Callis Omega stuff gets the singles at All Out. That doesn't mean this match is dogshit, or unworthy of an 80,000 crowd. What you're also not factoring in is what the workers want. Omega loves Ibushi. Omega loves Hangman. He himself has probably pushed to be able to team with his friends and do something he finds fun for this show.

The women have been booked poorly. The 4 way is not ideal at all and I'm not gonna sugar coat this one or defend it.

Coffin match is a perfect Sting match for this show. He hasn't chosen to retire yet. You can't do some giant retirement angle against the man's wishes. That's how you get resentment like WWE making Flair retire.

I too think this should be Mox vs OC and not the trios. But again you cant give everything the spotlight it deserves on this show and give nothing to All Out. The trois match being here makes sense. It pays off the dangling Kingston story thread. It will lead to Mox vs OC at All Out. Just because this sold 80k tickets doesn't mean you absolutely cannibalize your future events just to empty the tank for the big crowd.

You keep referencing this should be WrestleMania because of the huge crowd. But when the hell has WWE even booked a WrestleMania like that? You get 4 or 5 marquee matches with mostly filler or multi man matches thrown in with some let me up heehaw stuff. I think you're fighting from a straw man position here because the only real points of contention you've raised are 'do it like a WrestleMania' and 'every match should be a dream match'. And that's not a realistic possibility. WM3 wasn't booked like that. SS92 wasn't booked like that. Collision in Korea wasn't booked like that. None of these giant stadium shows have ever been what you're asking for. And the most important point here, the original All In wasn't that either.

So I don't get the justification for all the outrage you have.