supremebve Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Well, I don't necessarily agree with "he's not a hall of famer" but I do agree that definitely Harrison and probably Brown are more deserving. I agree 100% with this. Andre Reed was really good and when he retired I think most people would agree he was one of the best ever. Since he retired there have been a few guys who blow his career out of the water. Tim Brown and #88 were just plain better than him and if they're both on the list I don't think Reed should get in while they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Well, I don't necessarily agree with "he's not a hall of famer" but I do agree that definitely Harrison and probably Brown are more deserving. So do I, but don't agree with King on it is what I'm suggesting. Because that always ends with painful boils. Or something like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Yeah, saying Peter King is right is always a painful experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I think that most of this class is spot on. I'm glad to see Andre Reed to get in so that the WR log jam that can get that much looser. Hopefully they'll get Tim Brown and Marvin Harrison in before Randy Moss and Terrell Owens become eligible. Aeneas Williams is the one that puzzles me. And I am a Bronco fan, but is Williams better than Steve Atwater? And they need to take one spot away from the veterans and give it to contributors.... Like the media folks that vote for these things aren't going to make Moss and Owens wait forever to get in. As far as the rest of the wide receiver log jam, if Cris Carter had to wait six years to make it into the hall, everyone else. . .Harrison included. . .can sit the hell down and wait their turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Wait wait its a democracy but 80 percent have to agree that's not a democracy, even a supper majority would be 66%.Yeah, but a breakfast majority is only 62%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Randy Moss should go in ahead of every other receiver as soon as he becomes eligible. He was a LOT better than Reed, Brown, Harrison, Carter, Owens, all of 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 He was not a lot better than Owens. They have near identical statistics. Slightly better maybe.. but no way moss is a lot better than him. People just don't like to admit that TO was dominant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 He was not a lot better than Owens. They have near identical statistics. Slightly better maybe.. but no way moss is a lot better than him. People just don't like to admit that TO was dominant. T.O. and Moss were basically the two most physically dominant receivers ever. Moss had the Brady years to inflate his numbers, and T.O. shitting on his quarterbacks deflated his numbers. T.O. was kicked off of a team after 7 games with 47 catches, 763 yards, and 6 touchdowns, seriously if he wasn't such an ass who knows what his numbers would have been. If I had to pick which one was actually better, I really don't know who I would pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuetsar Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I agree with Moss and Owens being better than the others. As far as King goes, he can think what he wants, I just thought he was dickish to write it in the column. They will all get in sooner or later, although Harrison might miss out if they can ever pin a body on him. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Poor Kuetsar. I hope he never travels through Philly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuetsar Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Poor Kuetsar. I hope he never travels through Philly. Yea I'm not that stupid. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 He was not a lot better than Owens. They have near identical statistics. Slightly better maybe.. but no way moss is a lot better than him. People just don't like to admit that TO was dominant. Moss had 6 1300+ yard seasons. Owens had 4. Moss had 10 1000 yard seasons in his first 12 years. Owens had 9 total. Moss had 4 seasons of 15+ TDs. Owens had 2. Moss led the league in TDs 5 times. Owens did it 3 times. Moss set the all-time single season TD record. Owens didn't. Owens was probably a little more consistent but Randy had the higher ceiling. Owens was a great receiver - a lot better than some give him credit for - but Randy was better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 He was not a lot better than Owens. They have near identical statistics. Slightly better maybe.. but no way moss is a lot better than him. People just don't like to admit that TO was dominant. Moss had 6 1300+ yard seasons. Owens had 4. Moss had 10 1000 yard seasons in his first 12 years. Owens had 9 total. Moss had 4 seasons of 15+ TDs. Owens had 2. Moss led the league in TDs 5 times. Owens did it 3 times. Moss set the all-time single season TD record. Owens didn't. Owens was probably a little more consistent but Randy had the higher ceiling. Owens was a great receiver - a lot better than some give him credit for - but Randy was better. I think between the two of them, physically they could have been the two best receivers ever, but Moss got closer to his peak than Owens. Here is why I think they are essentially equal. Moss came into the league 100% ready to be a star, while T.O.'s first two seasons were essentially a Jerry Rice taught receiving tutorial. T.O. played with Steve Young, Donovan McNabb, Tony Romo and a pupu platter of average at best quarterbacks. Other than his stint in Oakland, Moss seemed to always catch guys at their absolute peak. He played in fucking Randall Cunningham's best season, Jeff George's best season, Daunte Culpepper's best years, and then Tom Brady at his best. That is a pretty good run of quarterbacks. T.O. was a huge asshole, but once he was on the field he always gave his all, Moss was a huge asshole, and it could carry over to the field. T.O. averaged 72.8 yards per game, Moss averaged 70.1. T.O. probably could have played three more seasons when he "retired" at 37, Moss was essentially done at 35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I don't think it's a coincidence that all those guys had their best years with Moss as their #1 receiver. He elevated QBs - big-time. I don't know that you can say the same for Owens, except maybe the Super Bowl year in Philly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboy Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I think one knock on Moss is that he was often perceived as not putting the effort in, possibly because he didn't have to due to his freakish skills. TO always struck me as a harder worker/competitor, and that Super Bowl performance is something most people just aren't capable of (broken leg, team on his back etc). However, in a team sport it's going to be frowned upon when you repeatedly antagonise and bus throw your team mates. In conclusion, put them both in - Moss first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 How the hell did I let a Randy Moss discussion get this far without this??? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Brady's highest yardage total was 5235 in 2011. He threw for another 4827 in 2012 (about the same as the Moss year in 2007) and this year without Hernandez, Welker and Gronk he still threw for 4343. We're not discussing a guy who has trouble throwing the ball around. We're talking about a top 5 QB of all-time. Owens was drafted into a situation where he was sharing the spotlight with the greatest receiver of all-time and then Young, who is a hall of famer in his own right.. but was towards the end of his career and often injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizium Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 "Jeff George's best season" blows up any argument. Moss and Carter made all those Vikings QBs. Cunningham had spent the previous six years alternating between hurt and average. Culpepper had a big arm and, until injuries derailed him, was damn good at throwing up balls for Moss to jump for. He also threw lots of picks. This is kind of a silly argument since it comes down to which guy you think was Hall of Famelier. For what it's worth, I pick Moss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Peak vs. Peak, Moss. But TO was better consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 As much as T.O. wished he was entertaining, Randy Moss was entertaining without even trying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 This is entertaining. http://www.nfl.com/videos/san-francisco-49ers/09000d5d8241c6f7/Films-Encore-T-O-s-pompom-shake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I don't even get T.O. vs Moss as an either/or discussion. Both guys should go in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincey Greene Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 They're both first ballots if life is fair so it's pretty irrelevant. Life is not fair, so they won't be first ballot. I prefer T.O. down to sheer physicality and due to Moss' penchant for packing it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 The announcement of who is doing the inductions was made Andre Reed (Marv Levy) and Ray Guy (John Madden) have chosen their Hall of Fame coaches to present them, guys who have presented several of their former players on the stage in Canton. Defensive end Michael Strahan is letting longtime friend Jay Glazer of FOX present him for enshrinement, which should add some excitement to the proceedings as well. The rest of the class has opted for family members. Defensive end Claude Humphrey has chosen his daughter Cheyenne Humphrey-Robinson, linebacker Derrick Brooks (Decalon Brooks) and tackle Walter Jones (Walterius Jones) have chosen their sons to present them, while cornerback Aeneas Williams will be presented by his father Lawrence Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdA Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Yeah, this just lead to Rippa and I having an awkward conversation trying to recall if Marv Levy was dead or not. Oh, and - MMMMMMM, RAY FUCKING GUY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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