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December 2021 Wrestling Discussion


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OH! Add Jerry Lawler to that list of people that can work Face and Heel effectively. Hell Dundee is on that list too... and so are a lot of Memphis staples now that I think about it. I don't think it was possible to work Memphis without turning at least twice if you stayed there for an extended period

James

Edited by J.H.
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Today is Billie Starkz' birthday. Her 17th. So, we can more or less start a 365 day countdown to her signing to a major promotion with TV, if she wants to. She's scarily good at the wrestling.

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19 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Obliquity is though. It is defined as "deviation from moral rectitude or sound thinking". A word for our times! 

That's obviously what he was going for, being a teacher and all! But yeah, word for our times, indeed!

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27 minutes ago, J.H. said:

OH! Add Jerry Lawler to that list of people that can work Face and Heel effectively. Hell Dundee is on that list too... and so are a lot of Memphis staples now that I think about it. I don't think it as possible to work Mem[phis without turning at least twice if you stayed there for an extended period

James

Does Eric Embry count, or not?

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On 12/4/2021 at 12:43 AM, The Natural said:

Some wrestlers are great as babyfaces while others are better as a heel. Fewer still are great at both. Of those I'd say: Bryan Danielson going from the Yes Movement as beloved face to hated heel as The New Daniel Bryan, Eddie Guerrero, Bret Hart, Terry Funk and Steve Austin.

Hogan is the first name that comes to mind.  I have mixed feelings about Hogan's career - and Terry Bollea  has never seemed particularly likable or sympathetic - but he's on the shortlist for best pure babyface ever and turned in one of the most memorable heel turns in memory.  

nWo doesn't work if Hogan doesn't throw himself into it 100% and chew scenery.  

Shawn Michaels should probably be on the list.  Went from pretty boy babyface tag wrestler to become a big draw as a cocky chickenshit heel, then came back after a few years away and reinvented himself a drawing babyface.  Personally, I really dug the back-half of his career.

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2 minutes ago, Tarheel Moneghetti said:

Hogan is the first name that comes to mind.  I have mixed feelings about Hogan's career - and Terry Bollea  has never seemed particularly likable or sympathetic - but he's on the shortlist for best pure babyface ever and turned in one of the most memorable heel turns in memory.  

nWo doesn't work if Hogan doesn't throw himself into it 100% and chew scenery.  

Shawn Michaels should probably be on the list.  Went from pretty boy babyface tag wrestler to become a big draw as a cocky chickenshit heel, then came back after a few years away and reinvented himself a drawing babyface.  Personally, I really dug the back-half of his career.

Hogan was always a heel to me even in the red and yellow ;).

I take your point on Hogan. I fucking detest Fuck Hogan.

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On 12/3/2021 at 7:49 PM, Gordberg said:

This brings up a point that is damned interesting, to me at least:

Going by my experience, fandom in Japan, and pro wrestling fandom in particular, seems to be very very very different indeed from what it is in North America. I'm not any kind of educated expert in Japanese culture, but I've been living here almost 13 years, I have Japanese family, close Japanese friends, Japanese drinking buddies and training partners... I've taught literally dozens and dozens and dozens of high-level conversation students. Before Corona I spent a significant amount of my free time hanging out with pro wrestlers and crazy pro wrestling fans. Everyone who knows me knows I was involved in, and love, pro wrestling. I have had literally hundreds and hundreds of conversations about pro wrestling, and if those conversations involved any kind of judging (and particularly any kind of negativity or shit-talking) then I was talking to another "gaijin" wrestling fan. With Japanese fans, we talk about what we like. if they don't like something, they prefer not to get into it. Which fits in with my general impression of Japanese social life.

As far as I can tell, the lion's share of Japanese fandom is about appreciation rather than about judging, ranking, bad-mouthing... 

A couple of times, I have sat with a Japanese wrestling fan who was proficient in English, or with a student who is really into wrestling, and had them translate wrestling discussion on, like 2chan or something. It's a festival of agreement and positivity. Small sample size, but: Shockingly different from what you might find even here on DVDVR, where people tend to be pretty civil and open-minded but we also enjoy lots of disagreement and trash-talk and complaining about how we don't like stuff. 

TL/DR: In my experience, Japanese wrestling fans are marks for their favourite wrestling and favourite wrestlers, rather than being marks for their own hipsterish opinions about pro wrestling! You seem to score a lot more social points here by being enthusiastic about a thing rather than by being "sophisticated" or "refined" with regard to how you appreciate it. So, Japanese fans are more into "appreciating" than "judging."

Not saying it's better (or worse). It is definitely different. 

 

 

I think it's the Japanese promotions as much as the people who allow for this.  My experience with NJPW-USA fans was the folks who were truly fans of the product had much the same apprecation.  I caught the same vibe from CHIKARA crowds as well here (or maybe it's a North Carolina indie crowd thing- I think NC crowds are genuinely nicer than most wrestling crowds)

 

 

I do think it's ok to "mark out" more in Japan in general, whereas it can get you looked funny in the US.   I know personally I prefer to just be a fan of the folks I like.  Having a rooting interest for SZKG and the Tekkers/Despy in particular made NJPW watching a lot more fun.    Made some of the nuances more fun too- Taichi/Naito being rooted so much in Taichi's jealousy and their similar personalities for example.

 

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33 minutes ago, Shartnado said:

Does Eric Embry count, or not?

I mean Embry could play sleazy heel or sympathetic babyface, he just excelled at it in Texas for some reason. There is no way he could be anythin but enhancement talent in 80s WWF unless he got his cousin Joan to manage him

James

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Just now, J.H. said:

I mean embry could play sleazy hee lor sympathetic babyface, he just excelled at it in Texas for some reason

James

I remember Foley book telling Embry thought he was more of a face than he actually was, but figured he was one of those who could pull it off!

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Just now, The Natural said:

Speaking of Mick Foley, Foley was great as a face and heel.

No F'n kidding there! It just got really hard for him to be a heel later on. Was able to pull THAT off in 2006 and I suppose in TNA, as well?

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Watching an old Worldwide last night and Brain never disappoints. 
 

Brain: Tony know where “Pitty City” is?

Tony: Where?

Brain: Whichever one the Nasty Boyz are in because I pity the city. 

This show also featured Kurosawa and Meng beating the shit out of each other for at least 10 minutes in a non match that both I , Tony and Brain thought was amazing. 

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I doubt this will change any of y'all's viewing habits but FYI

Quote

On the latest edition of Wrestling Observer Radio, Dave Meltzer gave an update on WWE's television schedule for the holiday season.

Meltzer reported that there will be no live episode of SmackDown on Fox on New Year's Eve (Friday, December 31). There will instead be a taped "year in review" type episode of SmackDown airing on FS1 that night.

Meltzer noted that, with SmackDown being moved to FS1 that night due to Fox airing New Year's Eve programming, WWE decided not to have a regular new episode. Meltzer said the decision was made by Nick Khan, Vince McMahon, and Kevin Dunn.

Original plans called for a live SmackDown episode to take place at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte, North Carolina on New Year's Eve, but that show was removed from WWE's schedule.

WWE's Day 1 pay-per-view is being held at State Farm Arena in Atlanta, Georgia on New Year's Day (Saturday, January 1).

The Christmas Eve (Friday, December 24) episode of SmackDown will air on Fox but will be taped in advance. It will be taped at the Allstate Arena in Rosemont, Illinois on Friday, December 17. That's along with there also being a live episode of SmackDown at the Allstate Arena on December 17.

 

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3 hours ago, AxB said:

Today is Billie Starkz' birthday. Her 17th. So, we can more or less start a 365 day countdown to her signing to a major promotion with TV, if she wants to. She's scarily good at the wrestling.

I always notice Moriarty, Dante, and maybe some others (?) wearing BSB gear on AEW and I keep forgetting to mention it.

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19 hours ago, The Natural said:

 

I second both of those suggestions for wrestlers great as a face and heel. Cheers.

It's crazy right because if I was a new fan that never seen Sami before his heel run on Smackdown, Probably wouldn't be able to see him Being such a good babyface as Sami or as El Generico 

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7 hours ago, The Natural said:

Sasha Banks vs. Bianca Belair in the main event of WrestleMania XXXVII. One of the best matches and spots in 2021. Real shame we never got the rematch at SummerSlam.

And just a few months later, both Belair and Rhea Ripley were relegated to the midcard so The Old Man and Podcast Prichard could jump headlong back into the time loop and make it 2018 again. Just shoving Becky and Charlotte down our throats...

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