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AEW Dynamite - 4/22/2020


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IIRC, the sports based thing was something one of them said prior to the shows starting. Maybe Tony. Or maybe it was in a press release. Not sure why people continue to harp on it after months of seeing what the show actually looks like, but here we are. 

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It was a talking point that AEW definitely started themselves. Before the first TV show, they talked a lot about how it would have more of a sports feel and presentation, particularly focusing on how "wins and losses would count" in AEW.

 

It's obviously turned out to be much more about a bunch of likable performers having fun at work. I, personally, am quite happy with that outcome. I don't think that the current roster would be well suited to present any kind of Americanized UWFi, or whatever it a that some people seem to be hoping for. The people who are hoping for a more realistic show are absolutely basing their hopes on how Dynamite was originally talked up, however.

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9 minutes ago, Hayabusa said:

Is this something that AEW themselves came out and said? Like some mission statement somewhere in black and white with the AEW logo front and center over it?


Yes.

"Focused on producing fast-paced, high-impact competitions, AEW Offers fans less scripted, soapy drama, and more athleticism and real sports analytics, bringing [a] legitimacy to wrestling that it has not previously had. "

From a press release less than a year ago.

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3 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

“Less scripted” not “unscripted”

Yeah, I read it back and was just about to self-police and delete it. This hurts, but I have nobody to blame but myself. 

As to who gets writers, I have the sense that nobody is being handed dialogue. Ever. That’s good for some and bad for others. All jokes aside, no writer can fix some of these gimmicks or make guys believable in their roles.

Edited by West Newbury Bad Boy
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Letting the wrestlers find their own way seems to be working out better than I might have expected. I can remember late last year being impressed with how they were getting Private Party, Sammy, and Darby over but at the same time complaining that Hangman Cowboy, Doctor Baker the Dentist, and the Brandi & Awesome Dark Whatever were not working for me at all. I was far from alone in those feelings. Now: Baker and Page are two of the hottest acts in the company, and they moved on from the Brandi missteps. They are certainly not batting 1000 but they really seem to be hitting more often than they miss.

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To be honest prior to these no arena shows, they were doing less of these pre-taped segments. But to be fair to them they aren’t actually doing the backstage skits that the WWE does today. They keep things as close to in arena as possible. They sure weren’t doing a lot of invisible camera stuff. 

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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33 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

As to who gets writers, I have the sense that nobody is being handed dialogue. Ever. That’s good for some and bad for others. All jokes aside, no writer can fix some of these gimmicks or make guys believable in their roles.

Cody said on a podcast (maybe observer radio) that he’s written promos for some of the more inexperienced wrestlers. Everyone is free to do what they want as long as it’s getting over, but some people are more comfortable with a safety net. 

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13 hours ago, Hayabusa said:

I've got a question about the "presented as a sport" talking point that seems to be getting tagged to AEW on the webz.

Is this something that AEW themselves came out and said? Like some mission statement somewhere in black and white with the AEW logo front and center over it?

I'm legit asking because in a company with barb wire nets and mouse trap boards, with eye spiking angles, not one but two invading factions looking to change the look and feel of AEW, and this is all before the lockdowns and no fans allowed started happening... So okay, all that, guys like Orange Cassidy and Nakazawa doing their thing, what would "presented as a real sport" have to do with these things?

I'm saying, my point being, they're hammy wrestling time to time with a heavier dose of solid wrestling the majority of the time, like Nitro but with the violence turned up. Or ECW if they had sillier gimmicks now and again.

How is invading factions a sports feel? Barb wire nets, DDT's through glass tables, thumb tacks and cracker barrel matches and spiked skateboards, all of this back when they had crowds, how would any of that be a "sport presentation?"

Just rambling an opinion here, with shitty references, but AEW=Serious Sport doesn't seem to line up, in my uneducated mark mind. Not when you've got camera zooms on best friends hugging, not when they're being broadcast from a cruise ship. That's just tv fare like your WMAC or something, just my thoughts. 

Some people seem set on this talking point but I've never seen it through that lens, with all the different examples I was trying to remember. 

 

ETA- In my mind if wrestling and sports presentation are in the same sentence I immediately picture amateur, collegiate or Olympic wrestling. Wrestling inside a ring with ropes is not my idea of sport presentation wrestling. I say that as an 80s kid who grew up with lots of cartoonish characters in the ring and so my stance, again, isnt the most educated. 

That's fair, but I don't think anybody is asking for amateur style or UWFi presentation.  The request is for logic and the minimization of how much suspension of disbelief the viewer must offer.   

The question is really more about the 'magic camera' and it's diminishing effects on the product than whether AEW is truly a sports presentation.  If the magic camera had led to wrestling being better for it the complaint would be a moot point, but it's been 20 years for this mindless 'innovation'.  And with consistently dreadful results.  It's not working, nor has it ever worked. You could very likely count the number of redeeming segments featuring a 'magic camera' on one hand.  

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13 hours ago, matt925 said:

Cody said on a podcast (maybe observer radio) that he’s written promos for some of the more inexperienced wrestlers. Everyone is free to do what they want as long as it’s getting over, but some people are more comfortable with a safety net. 

I think they should make a bit of a competition between the wrestlers for who can cut the best promos on the night. I’m sure the NWA Powerrr crew are trying something like that. 

More modern guys should get comfortable with it.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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1 hour ago, HarryArchieGus said:

That's fair, but I don't think anybody is asking for amateur style or UWFi presentation.  The request is for logic and the minimization of how much suspension of disbelief the viewer must offer.   

The question is really more about the 'magic camera' and it's diminishing effects on the product than whether AEW is truly a sports presentation. 

Well okay but if we're talking logic and sports presentation, please tell me in the 60s or 70s what sport was going around with wildmen and savages or sports leagues that had characters like a Baron Von Raschke or Fritz Von Erich? What league had "foreigner who hates host country pops in to take the title" as a narrative?

I was watching clips wrestling pre 80s and it's so blatantly showmanship, so blatantly sideshow entertainment compared to pro sports, with its colorful gimmicks like mummies and Worlds Strongest Man types. There isn't uncivilized wildmen competing in boxing or baseball or football or whatever "sports presentation" sports are being compared to wrestling. You don't have your Kamalas and Wild Samoans and Moondogs etc. I wouldn't imagine in any other league that wasn't pro wrestling. 

Now maybe I'm misunderstanding the point entirely and that's possible, the talking point to me seems ---pro wrestling is on the same level as other pro leagues in its presentation--- and I could definitely be wrong. 

Never mind the predetermined finishes part, skip that, wrestling in my  (and anyone is welcome to link to matches or cards that they feel captured the "real sports" feel being discussed) opinion, is more closer to Harlem Globetrotters with its athleticism and entertainment value, than competitive pro sports. I get why McMahon decided to go with 'sports entertainment' over "wrestling" because to a degree yeah its athleticism and the wrestlers are taking real bumps, but its entertainment presentation with all the spectacle and razzle dazzle of carnie barkers pulling in the marks. 

About suspension of disbelief, what leagues allowed their athletes to compete with masks, allow handicap matches and valets who help distract the ref? Let their players antagonize the fans to near riots, brawl through the arena and into the crowd, make for ironman stipulations, tuxedo matches, 2/3 falls, last man standing, blindfold matches? Pro wrestling seems like it was always about the sideshow, the gimmicks that drew paying fans in. Top rope attacks, tag team moves, 10 counts on rope break, another 10 count if you leave the ring. Irish whips?

Edited by Hayabusa
Adding suspension of disbelief.
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9 minutes ago, Casey said:

I really think a lot of people just wanted AEW to be like an American NJPW.

I don’t believe that could be possible with weekly live TV wrestling. Hell if New Japan went the weekly live TV route, they would have trouble booking shows like they did before. You still need a form of storytelling for audiences.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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11 minutes ago, Casey said:

I really think a lot of people just wanted AEW to be like an American NJPW.

*Raises hand*. However, I am more than cool with what we ended up getting.

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34 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I'm happy with what AEW is, and not trying to be another WWE.

Fuckin A right. I'm just trying to watch fake fighting that doesn't make me feel like I am wasting my time watching it. 

 

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6 hours ago, Hayabusa said:

There isn't uncivilized wildmen competing in boxing or baseball or football or whatever "sports presentation" sports are being compared to wrestling. You don't have your Kamalas and Wild Samoans and Moondogs etc. I wouldn't imagine in any other league that wasn't pro wrestling. 

which makes me ponder why individual sports don't include this kind of thing more often. Why don't pro bowlers have OTT gimmicks?

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7 hours ago, Hayabusa said:

There isn't uncivilized wildmen competing in boxing

Sharif Bogere, who is actually from Uganda unlike Jim Harris (who is from my neck of the woods in Mississippi), comes to the ring a real lion head dress....IN A CAGE.

bogereincage_original.jpg?1293107135 sharifbogere.jpg

Macho Camacho was a gimmick and a half. RIP

Ricardo Mayorga is a fucking real life madman.

Prince Naseem Hamed came out on fucking flying carpets among other things (see below) and use to do all types of crazy shit in the ring.

career-hamed2.jpg prince-naseem-hamed-makes-his-entrance-i

Emanuel Augustus is an entire league of his own.

This is just off the top of the dome. Yeah, it's presented as real cause it is real. However, boxing is a pretty bad example Vis-à-vis not having pageantry, gimmicks, and presentation like wrestling. In the PPV era (especially in the 90s and beyond), it got ratcheted up a lot.

 

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