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The bad roh stuff was terrible, including commentary and I’m assuming all the production because they had the roh live time stamp. I liked the ladder match even though the show was dragging at that point, and the women’s match was alright. New japan stuff was night and day better. Ibushi/Naito was outstanding, the main was great although the crowd was understandably burnt out. Cobb ospreay was great, Tanahashi zsj was really good. 

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It was amazing that the director switched to the wrong camera on the spear thru the Table spot. 

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The camera kept panning away from the obvious next spot all night. It was most apparent with the Lethal bump during the ladder match finish. 

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Also the pco entrance, where everyone is in the ring, and then they slowly assemble the electric chair, and then he climbs in and becomes unconscious, all on camera. Super bush league when you have so many eyes on you. 

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4 hours ago, Web Conn said:

If that was a work they really went out of their way to make it look like it was real

The commentators stalled the camera made apoint not show Enzo or Cass. Jay punched Enzo for real.

 

Pro tip: if you are trying to convince people something was a shoot you didn't want people to see and a fan Tweets video of the incident DON'T HAVE YOUR FUCKING OFFICIAL ACCOUNT RETWEET IT (Yes, they did that).

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I'm still glad I went, and tremendously enjoyed the opener, the junior three-way, Naito/Ibushi, the finish to the main, and ZSJ/Tana (despite the fact that people were mostly trying to figure out the dumb Enzo & Cass shit during the first half of it), but, damn, ROH was such fucking garbage tonight for so many reasons.

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Oh man, I loved this.. but I won't bullshit anyone, 6 hours was a long damn time to be there despite enjoying most of it.

I'll get into the matches more tomorrow but everything on the NJPW side was bonkers. Loved it. ROH had some stuff that dragged in parts.

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Posted (edited)

Preshow: 6 woman tag was pretty good and the few people who were there at 6:15 were into it. Rumble was fine for what it was. Muta was a big surprise. People really wanted a Liger win. I imagine commentary didn’t catch it, but we saw Kenny sneak under the ring so we knew where that was going.

Opener was very hot and one of the better matches of the night. People were shocked (and not thrilled) about the fast Rush win, but the last time I saw Castle he could barely move, so I guess it makes sense. Women’s match was a bit of a mess and was not well received live.

The Bully Ray thing started off hot, people popped for Flip, but I think a lot of people don’t know Lifeblood as a group because when the graphic and music first kicked in, everyone was screaming for Taz(!). The whole thing was dreadful, the people played along but it felt like this long plodding nothing.

Juniors were great and got the crowd back immediately. 4-way was decent, some fun spots but a lot of standing around waiting on the outside which can be hidden on TV but looks so phony live. Enzo-Cass thing seemed real for about 30 seconds, but when it dragged on and security didn’t get involved, it was clear live that it was a work. People did go nuts for it, though (ugh).

I maintain my strong dislike of ZSJ. That aside, the crowd was really not that into this match at all. Big pop for the entrances and TAKA intro, but the match itself received polite applause that came off as “we’re supposed to like these guys, so we’ll clap for them, but this isn’t anything special.”

Naito-Ibushi was great, but there were 3-4 sloppy miscues. I wonder if there was an early concussion or something. Very uncharacteristic.

Ladder match was the spectacle you’d expect. I’d say people were most into Marty to win, but Taven really won the people (including me) over with his hard work and crazy bumping. Other than that sick bump by Lethal at the end, I think Taven took the most here. When the big purple ladder came out, we definitely got the sense Taven was winning it.

Main was great. Jay got a great heel reaction, and Okada might have gotten the loudest pop (close call between him and Naito). I really like how these 2 match up, and would like to see more from them down the line. Short promo in English by Okada after (not sure if this aired).

About 5:45 (including preshow), definitely too long. I don’t think any matches needed to be trimmed, but the women’s title and street fight back to back felt like an hour.

Edited by crazypook
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7 minutes ago, maciej said:

I'm still glad I went, and tremendously enjoyed the opener, the junior three-way, Naito/Ibushi, the finish to the main, and ZSJ/Tana (despite the fact that people were mostly trying to figure out the dumb Enzo & Cass shit during the first half of it), but, damn, ROH was such fucking garbage tonight for so many reasons.

That’s awesome, glad you enjoyed it and I wish I could have gone. 

Also wanted to mention, while I thought the women’s match was alright, the aftermath was just the god awful worst thing on the show. My mom is in town to visit the grandkids, and I was like mom I have to watch this show, and she’s a good sport. But sitting there through that slow ass angle was one of those “I’m so embarrassed to be a wrestling fan” moments. Also everything from beginning to end with the street fight. And I was trying to hype up new japan and they came through. But that was like a shiny apple and you turn it around and see this nasty ass decay spot. 

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It sucks but everyone outside of nxt is guilty of this time thing now. Last years supercard of honor was at least 4 1/2 hours, new japan shows in the us have been 4 1/2 hours. I’ve said it before but that’s just stupid. Imagine sitting through a movie or football game that long, it’s just ridiculous. And then almost 6 here, 7 plus tomorrow, just dumb. 

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30 minutes ago, matt925 said:

It sucks but everyone outside of nxt is guilty of this time thing now. Last years supercard of honor was at least 4 1/2 hours, new japan shows in the us have been 4 1/2 hours. I’ve said it before but that’s just stupid. Imagine sitting through a movie or football game that long, it’s just ridiculous. And then almost 6 here, 7 plus tomorrow, just dumb. 

Yeah on the train back home there were a bunch of folks dreading going to Mania tomorrow after doing 2-3 shows plus this one.

I had a blast at the G1 Supercard overall although i have no idea what ROH is thinking with Enzo and Cass but it took away from Tanahashi vs. Zack. I also didn't hate the street fight and thought it was a fun match. Weakest match to me was the women's match as I thought it was underwhelming. Cobb vs. Osprey was damn good and got the crowd hyped. The New Japan matches delivered and (at least in my section) crowd was pretty split for Ibushi vs. Naito. Wasn't expecting Muta which was a great surprise for me given that i skipped the HOG show.

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21 minutes ago, The Outsider said:

Yeah on the train back home there were a bunch of folks dreading going to Mania tomorrow after doing 2-3 shows plus this one.

I had a blast at the G1 Supercard overall although i have no idea what ROH is thinking with Enzo and Cass but it took away from Tanahashi vs. Zack. I also didn't hate the street fight and thought it was a fun match. Weakest match to me was the women's match as I thought it was underwhelming. Cobb vs. Osprey was damn good and got the crowd hyped. The New Japan matches delivered and (at least in my section) crowd was pretty split for Ibushi vs. Naito. Wasn't expecting Muta which was a great surprise for me given that i skipped the HOG show.

You must have been on the train with me. I don't know who Enzo is, so I thought that the fans were chanting Endo sucks about some Japanese guy. Tomorrow will be tough. Probably get beered up and eat meat in the parking lot and nap during the show.

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3 hours ago, Edwin said:

 

 

Ahhh the memories. That was so much fun to be part of.

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5 hours ago, Web Conn said:

 

I made it about a minute into this clip and I think it broke my brain

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Posted (edited)

I had a blast at the show, even with Villain Enterprises not having a good night. That was probably the most fun I've had at a show. This whole weekend was awesome. 

Do I really want Enzo and Cass in ROH? No. Have I seen some really bad shit in ROH? Yes. ICP, Jeff Hardy, Konnan, Bison Smith, an angle revolving around shitting in the Carnage Crew's bags, Adam Pearce bringing garbage talent in, Haas and Benjamin's half-assed efforts, etc. Am I going to stop watching ROH? Probably not.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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It feels strange as a Brit to have a NJPW show that you NAmericans have seen before me. Just watched the main event and loved the hell out of it. The crowd flattened mid-match but I couldn't see why. Maybe needed some crowd work rather than MOVEZ. Anyway, White is gonna make it, he's gonna be ok. The crowd were completely worked twice over the finish.

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Posted (edited)

Enzo & Cass bring new eyeballs to the show etc etc. I'm not mad about it. I liked them as a tag team in NXT that being said The Briscoes are going to murder Enzo aren't they?

Two funny things that happened during Naito/Ibushi. 1. The security guard working himself into a shoot not cowering to Naito's shtick making Naito break character offering up a handshake (the camera seemed to pan away when all that was going on) and 2. The fan who picked Ibushi off his ass to save the count. That dude was having none of it.

I fell asleep when Matt Taven *sigh* won the belt. 

Loved Cobb/Ospreay, my match of the weekend so far.

edit: caught the replay of Okada/White, the end stretch was amazing

Edited by Rick

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OK finally steamed through this and it was too long and ROH is just a rank average promotion. Ibushi-Naito was good, Tanahashi-Sabre was good, the main was nearly a classic, the jr title match was a super sprint, everything else ranged from occasionally amusing (PCO bump, the post-match to that) to please move on (Ladder,) to the outright drizzling. Too many cooks in the NJPW/ROH relationship I suspect, unable to present the best at expense of compromise and inclusion.

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Still wiped out but drinking coffee thought from being there live:

RoH's production isn't ready for prime time.  Lots of miscues, and abrupt music cuts.  The Rumble was plagued with incorrect graphics.  My seats were pretty good to see the ring, but were behind the stage so we couldn't see entrances, and until the Main, they just had the wrestler graphics, which had us figure out Haku and Muta when they were half way down the ring (Muta didn't use any of his old themes, so we didn't know)

 

Women's Trios was good for a dark match to get them on the show and they had a perfectly acceptable match, and I got to see Odeo Tai do an entrance dance at MSG, so awesome.

Rumble was great for seeing everyone that I wanted to and didn't get a match.  I got a full MiSu entrance at MSG, and got a minute of Muta vs. Liger at MSG, and I don't give a fuck of both are over 50, I got Muta/Liger at MSG for 1 minute and that's 1 more minute than I ever thought I would ever see, so it was fucking awesome.  Not mad at the result as I dig King and that Rumble was worth the admission.

Ospreay/Cobb was a hot opener, and good match.  Castle/Rush was fine for story and probably the better option if Castle's back is fucked.  The entire Women's Title segment did NOT hit.  Match was barely there after a good opening exchange, and the TBP aftermath and double turn didn't work, and it just took too damn long.  The less said about the Street Fight the better, as that was pretty brutal.

The Junior Title match was a great sprint that got everyone back into the show, even if the finish felt a bit out of nowhere.

The Tag Title match can fuck right off.  LIJ had literally nothing to do but take the Briscoes Finisher train and brawl a bit on the outside, PCO's powerbomb bump was fucking disgusting, and fuck the post match shit with Enzo/Cass in it's ear, as it caused a total miss of the NJPW angle of Yano stealing the IWGP belts.  

The end of the Tag Title match drug and the crowd didn't get fully into Tanahashi's entrance until he entered the building.  Match was their standard fare, which was good. 

Naito/Ibushi was great even if the end went a little wonky, but I'd put that on the slightly botched low seated Tombstone Ibushi took.  Crowd was into it and we were expecting a kickout to the Kamigoye and it didn't happen.  Great for Ibushi even if I didn't expect the title swap.  

Ladder match had some OK spots, some dumb ones, Jay almost got the company sued.  I dig a lot of Taven's act but not watching a lot of RoH, it wasn't much a showcase of his skills.  We were beginning to burn out at this point too.

Okada/White was a really good match, although with the live burnout, the middle was a bit of a slog.  But boy that finishing stretch was great, and that was a pretty decisive finishing stretch, and i got to see one of my favorite wrestlers win the IWGP Title at MSG so I'm happy.

 

I have zero regrets picking to go to this show over Mania, as the highs more than outweighed the lows.  The straight NJPW stuff delivered on the big stage, but the RoH stuff underperformed big time.  I haven't been an RoH person since the Gabe era, and the stuff on this show didn't do anything to win me back, but as a NJPW fan I was more than satisfied.

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Yeah so I was concerned that everyone around me was just toast after sitting through the ladder match but Okada/White got everyone back in the finish stretch and it was amazing. 

Naito/Ibushi was sick all the way through.

Juniors was a real crowd pleaser. Some ridiculous moves, I couldn't believe that fucking Spanish fly double. One of my buddies who was unfamiliar with all 3 juniors was like holy shit who are these guys.

Cobb and Ospreay was the best possible use of both men, they cut back on the bs and had a super big man vs. Little man match.

I love Tanahashi to death but tonight saw that New York isn't ready for ZSJ. 

This was still an international crowd but less than Takeover the night before.

I think if you cut out the Bully Ray stuff and the Beautiful People and trim down the ladder match this would have been a perfect 4 hour show. 

I liked that they did some special entrances, it sounds like the entrance stuff came off better seeing it live than on PPV. 

Hard to say whether I liked this or Takeover more. Probably Takeover by a hair because there was no fat. But seeing all the top NJPW guys in meaningful matches is something I will never forget.

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4 hours ago, Rick said:

Enzo & Cass bring new eyeballs to the show etc etc. I'm not mad about it. I liked them as a tag team in NXT that being said The Briscoes are going to murder Enzo aren't they?

Two funny things that happened during Naito/Ibushi. 1. The security guard working himself into a shoot not cowering to Naito's shtick making Naito break character offering up a handshake (the camera seemed to pan away when all that was going on) and 2. The fan who picked Ibushi off his ass to save the count. That dude was having none of it.

I fell asleep when Matt Taven *sigh* won the belt. 

Loved Cobb/Ospreay, my match of the weekend so far.

edit: caught the replay of Okada/White, the end stretch was amazing

I hope so.

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