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AEW - 2019


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4 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Also, rings? Cue Joe Rogan's insane idea for MMA matches to take place on an open basketball court.

I am so glad the Jason Ellis type freakshow stuff isn't any bigger outside that crowd who just watches endless KO comps on Youtube.

This little bit on his Wiki entry is hilarious though.

Quote

On 15 October 2016, Ellis participated in a boxing exhibition match against former UFC champion Shane Carwin at EllisMania 13. Per the unique rules, Carwin literally had one of his arms duct-taped to his body to box Ellis. Ellis lost the bout via knockout in the second round.

 

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9 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Also, rings? Cue Joe Rogan's insane idea for MMA matches to take place on an open basketball court.

That definitely seems like a stoned idea.

 

7 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I am so glad the Jason Ellis type freakshow stuff isn't any bigger outside that crowd who just watches endless KO comps on Youtube.

The Jason Ellis Show is awesome. It's one of my favorite things about Sirius XM. I don't really care for MMA, but I presume more people know of Ellis from his skateboarding career. That's how I came to know of Ellis.

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6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

That definitely seems like a stoned idea.

 

The Jason Ellis Show is awesome. It's one of my favorite things about Sirius XM. I don't really care for MMA, but I presume more people know of Ellis from his skateboarding career. That's how I came to know of Ellis.

I think it would be safe to say more from skateboarding because the Ellismania thing was more prominent like ten years ago when MMA started to get more coverage on ESPN and various other outlets. Also, it was when MMA was still associated with Affliction shirts and tribal tattoos. All that Jackass inspired idiocy would be something that crowd watches.

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4 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

That definitely seems like a stoned idea.

The idea is that the cage in MMA is used as a weapon, it can give fighters an advantage in defending and getting up from takedowns. and that it's the one thing in MMA that's not taken from any traditional martial art.

Olympic Wrestling and Judo take place on an open mat, so there's precedent. And in PRIDE, there was a thing where if someone went under the ropes, the ref would stop it and move them back to mid-ring.

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4 minutes ago, AxB said:

The idea is that the cage in MMA is used as a weapon, it can give fighters an advantage in defending and getting up from takedowns. and that it's the one thing in MMA that's not taken from any traditional martial art.

Olympic Wrestling and Judo take place on an open mat, so there's precedent. And in PRIDE, there was a thing where if someone went under the ropes, the ref would stop it and move them back to mid-ring.

That makes more sense. The way it was worded made me think Rogan was trying to pitch MMA on a hardwood court. 

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18 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I think it would be safe to say more from skateboarding because the Ellismania thing was more prominent like ten years ago when MMA started to get more coverage on ESPN and various other outlets. Also, it was when MMA was still associated with Affliction shirts and tribal tattoos. All that Jackass inspired idiocy would be something that crowd watches.

I have to admit I like Ellismania. I loved the cky videos, then Jackass when I was in my late teens and early 20s. Best of all, I don't own an Affliction shirt or have a tribal tattoo.

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19 minutes ago, AxB said:

The idea is that the cage in MMA is used as a weapon, it can give fighters an advantage in defending and getting up from takedowns. and that it's the one thing in MMA that's not taken from any traditional martial art.

Olympic Wrestling and Judo take place on an open mat, so there's precedent. And in PRIDE, there was a thing where if someone went under the ropes, the ref would stop it and move them back to mid-ring.

The YAMMA Pit Warning Track?

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3 hours ago, MapRef41N93W said:

OK, but do you realize this is not remotely the same thing as saying that "most people watch wrestling for entertaining characters and storylines not the actual matches" and "wrestling has always been an entertainment show with wrestling as the backdrop"?

I think its semantics. I think most people (aka the vast majority that don’t watch anymore) don’t care about matches for matches sake and are more entertained by the storylines and characters, to the point where they’re not gonna watch unless those things are present. So yes, those two elements is what sucks them in not the matches. 

If the vast majority of people who watched wrestling did so for the matches, then there would be record numbers of ppl watching right now, because the in ring wrestling is better than it has ever been. 

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3 hours ago, AxB said:

Wait... are you saying has been or has always been? Those are two very different statements. Assuming it's the latter, how much wrestling have you seen from before 1985? Or from companies that weren't American? Because there have been plenty of Wrestling shows that were primarily Wrestling shows, with very little non-Wrestling Entertainment.

Always will be, there's no way you can possibly know that.

I should have said “wrestling at its most successful” has always been an entertainment show with a wrestling backdrop.

Its not different than Greys being an TV show with a hospital background or Ballers being a show with a Football background. 

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It’s way different. A wrestling adjacent sitcom or procedural could work, but it’s never been tried. Austin and Hogan always got in the ring, and a great deal of the show always had the camera pointed there. 

A digressive comparison: The AFC championship got record ratings. You had, of course, obvious storylines like the young MVP QB trying to supplant the old and a natural heel/face dynamic. But you also had great football. 

It would be farcical to say mainstream football fans don’t really like football, that they just watch it for the storylines. But it’s also true that people tune in for stakes and narrative in addition to the on-field product. If you want to pull a big number, you need all of that together, at once.

(Yes, I know that wrestling isn’t a sport. But it has almost always been presented as far closer to an NFL broadcast than Modern Family. We make fun of it—with good reason—but sports entertainment isn’t totally nonsense. And WWE’s turning towards a more sports oriented production got them sponsors and a TV deal that attitude era ratings never did.)

Anyway, this is all hopelessly redundant. No one has argued that AEW shouldn’t value story and characters. No one will argue that. The straw man is thrashed.

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Aries strikes me as a great idea for AEW because they're going to be so loaded up on the babyface side of things and Aries would be a very good foil to that because he's a real-life dickhead who can work extraordinarily well and is one of the better talkers today. You probably don't want to tie the company's fortunes around the guy but he could be a very versatile and useful option for them. 

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2 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

In elementary school, we got creative with milkcrates. I think that was more inspired by the WWF blue cage though.

For us, when you went beyond the circle of trees, you were out of the ring. Ramming someone face first into a tree was a lot of fun. It was like the New Japan turnbuckles.

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56 minutes ago, Thibs said:

I think its semantics. I think most people (aka the vast majority that don’t watch anymore) don’t care about matches for matches sake and are more entertained by the storylines and characters, to the point where they’re not gonna watch unless those things are present. So yes, those two elements is what sucks them in not the matches. 

Let me try a different angle.

AxB suggested that it would be better to hire Austin Aries than Del Rio, Swagger, or Ryback because, unlike them, Aries can be relied on to have good matches. Then he said that "most wrestling fans like wrestling shows because of the wrestling that happens on them."

Can you see how someone could believe those things, without believing that most wrestling fans care about "matches for matches sake"?

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