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AEW - 2019


Dolfan in NYC

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If a wrestler adds no material value in terms of ratings, attendance, etc., I'm just not sure what a nebulous form of legitimacy is worth. But in any case, there are certainly ex-WWE wrestlers who could add value, but having a degree of minor celebrity isn't going to be how they do it. AEW just needs to be careful to use [insert whatever guy you want here] and guys like that sparingly and well, otherwise "guest stars" stop being special. We can't say "don't be the next TNA!" while hoping they make the same mistakes regarding roster construction.

I also think it's important, for all we hear about massive financial support, to spend money wisely on a roster. Avoid paying guys like stars who aren't, so you can spend that money on more people who might be someday.

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24 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Yeah. Aries isn't what I'd call reliable at all. He's also a head case. 

You can rely on him to have a good match. Not something you could say about Del Rio or Swagger.

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8 minutes ago, AxB said:

You can rely on him to have a good match. Not something you could say about Del Rio or Swagger.

They already have enough guys that have good matches. At some point they’re going to have to make decisions based on things other than having great matches. 

Del Rio is capabale of having perfectly fine matches while at the same time being a a much bigger name than Aries. 

In terms of ratings, from the above point, it also matters how the booking is. I’d say that the booking is the issue not necessarily that those names aren’t needle movers. 

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47 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Yeah. Aries isn't what I'd call reliable at all. He's also a head case. 

I'd be all for bringing Aries in despite whatever baggage comes with him. I don't think it's fair to say he's unreliable. He was reliable for ROH from 2004-2010, and it was ROH's decision to stop using Aries, as they were looking to save money and cut down the roster size.

I'd say he was reliable in WWE. Meltzer reported that Aries didn't ask for his release, but was let go because he was unpopular backstage and with the writers. He did what was asked of him. He excelled on commentary while he was injured. He didn't refuse to repeatedly job to Pac. Both he and Pac had a legit reason to be upset being left off the WM dvd when they worked the pre-show for the CW title.

If the thing with him no selling Johnny Impact's finisher after match, and flipping off Don Callis wasn't a work, then yes he was unprofessional. 

Ok, so he's not the most fan friendly guy and most likely a huge mark for himself, but I think the positives still outweigh the negatives with him. He's a recognizable name that longtime indy fans will know and also fans that maybe only saw his nxt and WWE run. You can also plug Aries into any spot on the card. He wouldn't be out of place at the top of the card in AEW.

I'd stay the fuck away from Alberto. I'd say his reputation is far worse than Aries. We never heard about Aries yelling that Lacey or Zelina were holding coke on them while in an airport. I've also never heard stories of Aries no-showing or domestic violence issues, like Alberto. 

 

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19 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Good promo too, but he's just too much of a dick. I mean, so is MJF, but at least there's some charm to him living the gimmick. 

For some reason I have a vision of an RVD vs. MJF feud being really good. Could put him on the map. 

I’d like to see this company make a concerted effort to use established guys to MAKE new guys. 

That’s a really lost art that we haven’t seen in a while.

As far as Aries— I just don’t get the logic of bringing in yet another guy who fits the prototype of what they already have a bunch of. 

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What matches would you rather see, Austin Aries vs Cody Rhodes, or Ryback vs Cody Rhodes? Aries vs Jericho, or Swagger vs Jericho? Aries vs Omega, or Del Rio vs Omega? 

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Grow the company by having good matches. Most wrestling fans like wrestling shows because of the wrestling that happens on them. 

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33 minutes ago, Thibs said:

I don’t think we’re going to agree because your number one concern seems to be how good the matches are going to be and mine is what they should do to grow the company. 

We don't have to agree. I think bringing Alberto is a horrible dea and I don't know who is going to stay tuned into any promotion he's part of. Impact was smart to cut ties with him when the airport incident with him and Paige went down. Also, why take a chance on a guy with a reputation for no-showing? Alberto is a total "lol TNA move".

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Since it's been underscored over and over in this thread that AEW will have to make sure that it differentiates itself from TNA, I'm not sure how it's a good idea to bring Aries in. And that's without getting into the whole part about him being an unprofessional dickhead who's constantly starting fires on social media. He certainly shouldn't come within spitting distance of the main event. There is an endless supply of small guys that can work a good indie-style match that don't carry so much baggage. 

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The other problem with signing what I’ll call divisive figures—whoever and for whatever reason—is the success of All In and The Elite has owed a lot to their projecting softly progressive nice-guy attitudes about society and the business. And they know it! Hence the gun victim benefit, talk of health care, equal pay, etc. Signing people who are broadly or specifically understood to be problematic would thus be bad business.

(I’m not saying their personal values haven’t been accurately reflected, just that they’ve been and probably will continue to be good business values too.)

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55 minutes ago, AxB said:

Grow the company by having good matches. Most wrestling fans like wrestling shows because of the wrestling that happens on them. 

While I like watching good matches I doubt that it is going to matter that much considering that everyone is trying to have good matches these days. So, in a way, "having good matches" is bare minimum that people expect from wrestling promotion these days.

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1 hour ago, AxB said:

Grow the company by having good matches. Most wrestling fans like wrestling shows because of the wrestling that happens on them. 

Its just not true. MOST people watch (or watchED) wrestling for entertaining characters and storylines not the actual matches. 

Just like people who watch Greys Anatomy don’t watch it to see doctors perform an hour of surgery. 

Wrestling has and always will be an entertainment show with the actual wrestling being the backdrop.

 

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10 minutes ago, Thibs said:

Wrestling has and always will be an entertainment show with the actual wrestling being the backdrop.

I see people say this sometimes, and it always strikes me as completely insane.  If it were true, it would mean three things:

1. For decades, untold thousands of people have flocked to pro wrestling shows despite not particularly caring about or enjoying pro wrestling itself.

2. For decades, promoters have been putting on shows that consist mainly of the part of pro wrestling most fans don't especially enjoy.

3. For decades, wrestlers have been enduring immense pain, destroying their bodies, sometimes hastening their own deaths, all for the sake of the part of the show that fans don't really care about.

I understand that wrestling fans, particularly in the U.S., tend to gravitate toward big personalities and dramatic storylines that often take place substantially outside the ring. But those storylines almost always build anticipation for, and play out partially in, wrestling matches. I don't see how anyone would enjoy the storylines if they weren't interested in watching the matches.

It would be like saying that kung-fu movie fans care about the storylines but not the fights, or that fans of musicals care about the characters but not the songs. It makes no sense, because in their respective genres, these things are effectively inseparable. (It's not at all like saying that fans of medical dramas don't want to watch surgery.)

If the idea is just that most fans don't care to see match after match without any interesting characters or stories at all, then of course that's true, but that's much different from saying that most fans watch for characters and stories and not the actual matches.

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9 minutes ago, MapRef41N93W said:

I see people say this sometimes, and it always strikes me as completely insane.  If it were true, it would mean three things:

1. For decades, untold thousands of people have flocked to pro wrestling shows despite not particularly caring about or enjoying pro wrestling itself.

2. For decades, promoters have been putting on shows that consist mainly of the part of pro wrestling most fans don't especially enjoy.

3. For decades, wrestlers have been enduring immense pain, destroying their bodies, sometimes hastening their own deaths, all for the sake of the part of the show that fans don't really care about.

I understand that wrestling fans, particularly in the U.S., tend to gravitate toward big personalities and dramatic storylines that often take place substantially outside the ring. But those storylines almost always build anticipation for, and play out partially in, wrestling matches. I don't see how anyone would enjoy the storylines if they weren't interested in watching the matches.

It would be like saying that kung-fu movie fans care about the storylines but not the fights, or that fans of musicals care about the characters but not the songs. It makes no sense, because in their respective genres, these things are effectively inseparable. (It's not at all like saying that fans of medical dramas don't want to watch surgery.)

If the idea is just that most fans don't care to see match after match without any interesting characters or stories at all, then of course that's true, but that's much different from saying that most fans watch for characters and stories and not the actual matches.

I would say that most fans need characters and stories to make the matches as enjoyable as possible. And when you have characters and stories that people care about, wrestling can be popular even if the actual wrestling isn’t that good. Attitude era and Hulkamnia era as prime examples. And the lack of popularity today.

Anyway, here’s the new BTE. The more I watch this, the more I’m into it. Its got an “Office” vibe to it. I have to admit, they’ve already made me care about MJF as the smarmy incensure prick. Gives me more confidence for what they’ll be doing on TV.

 

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6 minutes ago, Thibs said:

I would say that most fans need characters and stories to make the matches as enjoyable as possible. And when you have characters and stories that people care about, wrestling can be popular even if the actual wrestling isn’t that good.

OK, but do you realize this is not remotely the same thing as saying that "most people watch wrestling for entertaining characters and storylines not the actual matches" and "wrestling has always been an entertainment show with wrestling as the backdrop"?

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1 hour ago, Thibs said:

Wrestling has and always will be an entertainment show with the actual wrestling being the backdrop.

Wait... are you saying has been or has always been? Those are two very different statements. Assuming it's the latter, how much wrestling have you seen from before 1985? Or from companies that weren't American? Because there have been plenty of Wrestling shows that were primarily Wrestling shows, with very little non-Wrestling Entertainment.

Always will be, there's no way you can possibly know that.

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