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AEW - 2019


Dolfan in NYC

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3 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Genuine question: Am I the only person here who has never watched an entire episode of BTE? 

I'm not sure I've watched any of it, but I've mostly been paying attention to this stuff via mentions here and what I catch up to on NJPW via AXS.

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54 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

BTE isn’t prestige TV, but it’s perfectly good treadmill viewing. It’s also why the last however many pages of ~pure sports~ versus narrative has seemed reductive and kinda silly. Not everything lands, but everyone involved are clearly huge continuity nerds in addition to workrate wonks. (It’s a false dichotomy anyway. “Wins and losses will matter” as a concept isn’t possible without story and character.)

I still don’t think that the ability to produce a YouTube show like BTE automatically means you’ll be good at producing a weekly prime time TV show that gets people coming back. 

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Just now, Thibs said:

I still don’t think that the ability to produce a YouTube show like BTE automatically means you’ll be good at producing a weekly prime time TV show that gets people coming back. 

Which is literally not what was said at all. 

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Not in the slightest bit. At all. All it said is that the argument over the sports vs entertainment discussion is absurd in the face of BTE, a comedy web show that built to matches where the results mattered. 

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8 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

Not in the slightest bit. At all. All it said is that the argument over the sports vs entertainment discussion is absurd in the face of BTE, a comedy web show that built to matches where the results mattered. 

And I’m making the point that its not absurd because we have no idea what that’s going to look like in the context of a two hour television show. They can easily air 30 second BTE comedy skits here and there and then do 30 minute matches. We won’t know until they’re on TV. And I’m making the broader point that in my opinion, idk that BTE will necessarily translate to what they do on TV. Especially in the face of all the rankings and records talk. 

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I’m not Meltzer; if you think I’ve implied something beyond what I wrote, you can just ask. Otherwise the text is the text; you’re free to read meaning in to it, but that in no way suggests I placed that meaning there. 

Anyway, to be as clear as possible: All the evidence we have, based on BTE, All In, their own indie bookings/influence, years of interviews, and now AEW specific quotes suggests everyone involved cares about story as much as wresting. 

Furthermore, my point is that there is no clear dichotomy between story and wrestling, that “wins and losses will matter” means emphatically that characters and narrative continuity will matter—because if they don’t, no one will care who wins and who loses. 

There is not and has never been any evidence that I’m aware of to suggest any alternative philosophy to all this.

Of course the future is unknowable and TV is different; but that’s no reason to ignore the very clear track record we have. In fact, it’s the opposite, unless we want to argue from ignorance to ignorance.

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4 minutes ago, AxB said:

So, do you reckon they'll sign any Von Erichs? Maybe they can get Lacey for the Women's division.

I can't imagine Lacey has gotten any better in the last several years. Of course, I'm not sure she could've gotten any worse.

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4 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

I’m not Meltzer; if you think I’ve implied something beyond what I wrote, you can just ask. Otherwise the text is the text; you’re free to read meaning in to it, but that in no way suggests I placed that meaning there. 

Anyway, to be as clear as possible: All the evidence we have, based on BTE, All In, their own indie bookings/influence, years of interviews, and now AEW specific quotes suggests everyone involved cares about story as much as wresting. 

Furthermore, my point is that there is no clear dichotomy between story and wrestling, that “wins and losses will matter” means emphatically that characters and narrative continuity will matter—because if they don’t, no one will care who wins and who loses. 

There is not and has never been any evidence that I’m aware of to suggest any alternative philosophy to all this.

Of course the future is unknowable and TV  is different; but that’s no reason to ignore the very clear track record we have. In fact, it’s the opposite, unless we want to argue from ignorance to ignorance.

Didn’t mean to put words in your mouth or anything and I didn’t do a great job of communicating my point clearly. 

You’re right, they’ve shown that they care about storytelling on a macro level but my concern is that they don’t have the ability to storytell on a micro, minute by minute level in the context of a TV show. Which you acknowledged is still a question mark. 

Also, I think with All In, while there were some storytelling elements, there were also matches that were completely made at random and were there simply for the workrate. Including the main event. 

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Of course it’s a question mark. No one has said otherwise or promised brilliance, success, anything like that. Put another way: “Everyone involved might reverse years-old demonstrable beliefs about pro wresting” is technically true—no one can prove the future—but not a compelling argument. All we have to go on is all we have to go on.

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3 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

Of course it’s a question mark. No one has said otherwise or promised brilliance, success, anything like that. But while “Everyone involved might reverse years-old demonstrable beliefs about pro wresting” is technically true, it’s not a compelling argument. All we have to go on is what we have to go on. 

And you’re not wrong about any of that. But I think that if you take everything we have to go on as a whole— there’s evidence pointing in multiple directions. So we’re going to see what comes out of it. 

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