DECEMBER 2017 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[MORELOCK]

13 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

Appeals to authority are garbage arguments, agreed. But that's not really a problem on this board, is it? I haven't seen one instance where someone suggests a match in New Japan is good because Dave says so, or even using that as a supporting argument. That's a straw man that deserves a torch. 

I'm sure it's easy to see a straw man when you put words in my mouth - I was just trying to explain why the backlash to the Young Bucks and Omega is so fervent. If you want to pretend people don't cite Meltzer on the board, go right ahead.

[Brian Fowler]

2 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

I'm sure it's easy to see a straw man when you put words in my mouth - I was just trying to explain why the backlash to the Young Bucks and Omega is so fervent. If you want to pretend people don't cite Meltzer on the board, go right ahead.

I don't see much of people using his star ratings as a definitive argument ender here, but maybe I've just missed it.

[Craig H]

Just now, MORELOCK said:

I'm sure it's easy to see a straw man when you put words in my mouth - I was just trying to explain why the backlash to the Young Bucks and Omega is so fervent. If you want to pretend people don't cite Meltzer on the board, go right ahead.

Would you care to point out some examples? I could find a bunch about Meltzer being out of touch, on the spectrum, or in the bubble. Can't say I recall many examples of people pointing to because Meltzer said it, it's true. Doesn't mean they don't exist, I just don't recall a single example.

I mean, we're the board that voted Bayley as best wrestler of the year, this board still maintains an active TNA "community," and there's fans of all forms of wrestling here. 

[Craig H]

1 minute ago, Brian Fowler said:

I don't see much of people using his star ratings as a definitive argument ender here, but maybe I've just missed it.

Not to mention that there was more discussion about why 6* was excessive and why 6 1/2* or whatever it was was even sillier. Plenty of folks said there's no reason to go up to 6*, but if the dude liked the match that much then fine. Others said they didn't know if it was 6*, but the match was fucking amazing. And then others said they liked Okada vs Ishii or, sadly, Okada vs Shibata was better.

[Brian Fowler]

2 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Would you care to point out some examples? I could find a bunch about Meltzer being out of touch, on the spectrum, or in the bubble. Can't say I recall many examples of people pointing to because Meltzer said it, it's true. Doesn't mean they don't exist, I just don't recall a single example.

I mean, we're the board that voted Bayley as best wrestler of the year, this board still maintains an active TNA "community," and there's fans of all forms of wrestling here. 

Hey, It's called Impact Wrestling now pal!

(And it's honestly not been bad the last several months. Not great, but not bad)

[nate]

4 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

I don't see much of people using his star ratings as a definitive argument ender here, but maybe I've just missed it.

I do think I remember seeing something suggesting, "What if Dave's ratings have been 'out of 10' all this time?" Was that piranesi? Sounds like a piranesi thing. Maybe Tomato-b-gon? I only pay attention to, like, 5 of you people anyway ....

[Craig H]

2 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

Hey, It's called Impact Wrestling now pal!

(And it's honestly not been bad the last several months. Not great, but not bad)

I can only fit in so much wrestling. My hope is that when I'm done with my current indy wrestling phase that it will be as enjoyable as you guys find it to be now.

[Craig H]

Just now, nate said:

I do think I remember seeing something suggesting, "What if Dave's ratings have been 'out of 10' all this time?" Was that piranesi? Sounds like a piranesi thing. Maybe Tomato-b-gon? I only pay attention to, like, 5 of you people anyway ....

LOL That sounds like something piranesi would say.

Oh my christ, the reaction 5 years from now when Dave says on Twitter 2 or whatever that the star ratings have been out of 10 and assumes that everyone else knew this and is dumb for not knowing.

[piranesi]

Meltzer does ratings? Netcop should sue him.

[MORELOCK]

I never actually said that people use his star ratings to end arguments about which matches are good, just that people are slavishly devoted to him and his opinions (which stretch far beyond star ratings.)

Here's a relatively fresh example of the love he gets:

Here's an example of the idea being presented that people that take issue with Meltzer are working a contrarian gimmick:

 

[Beech27]

10 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

I'm sure it's easy to see a straw man when you put words in my mouth - I was just trying to explain why the backlash to the Young Bucks and Omega is so fervent. If you want to pretend people don't cite Meltzer on the board, go right ahead.

The quote was an inverse of the one you used. That was the joke, that your argument relied on an imagined quote that poorly represents what anyone is actually suggesting.

Anyway, I get why there’s a backlash. I just said the tendency baffles me. Like what you like; hate what you hate. Hating things because others like them is a weird way for me to watch wrestling, or anything else.

Regarding Dave: I guess I’ll just keep pretending. I’ve not seen anyone use his tastes to justify their own, regarding New Japan or anything else. 

[MORELOCK]

6 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

Hating things because others like them is a weird way for me to watch wrestling, or anything else.

If that's what you took from what I said then you don't "get" why there's a backlash - the hate for the Young Bucks is magnified by the overwhelming attention and love they get, not caused by it.

There's a difference between "people like this thing, so I hate it," and "a lot of people are heaping praise on this thing I don't like, and I don't get why."

[piranesi]

In defense of Sabremike, here is a partial list of things I've said that I couldn't possibly love more on this board:

1) Brodus Clay dancing like a dinosaur

2) This Batista outfit that looks like he's showing up to audition for "Lorenzo Lamas Body Double" but no one told him it's a joke audition

 

3) Dolph Ziggler as a heel

 

4) This Batista outfit based on Roddy Macdowell's 1973 post-Oscar's orgy suit

 

5) Cody Rhodes, supervillain

 

6) This Batista outfit that he wore at the 2014 "If Pablo Picasso fucked Simon Cowell and made you watch" festival

Note: he is leaving is pinky out so you can see the boss-ass skull ring he got in the teen section at Claire's

 

7) Eve Torres

 

So anyone saying they love anything on a message board is not evidence of anything rational happening inside that person.

 

 

[Craig H]

I'm dying. Oh my god.

[sabremike]

24 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

I never actually said that people use his star ratings to end arguments about which matches are good, just that people are slavishly devoted to him and his opinions (which stretch far beyond star ratings.)

Here's a relatively fresh example of the love he gets:

Here's an example of the idea being presented that people that take issue with Meltzer are working a contrarian gimmick:

 

Since you decided to bring me into this, I love Meltzer because there is literally nobody who I've learned more about Wrestling from than him. The Observer is amazing, if it wasn't it wouldn't still be around after 27 years. I make ZERO apologies for liking and respecting Dave Meltzer.

[Beech27]

27 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

There's a difference between "people like this thing, so I hate it," and "a lot of people are heaping praise on this thing I don't like, and I don't get why."

Of course there is. My argument was that fandom tendencies lean often towards the former, and discard the latter. Or they jump from “I don’t get why” to an intentionally disingenuous reason. (And I do think “because Dave says so” is an example of this.) I’m not suggesting everyone has to be a Young Bucks fan, or else they’re a “hater.” I get why someone might not like them, because I really don’t. But broadly speaking, fandom—and wrestling fandom is no exception—strikes me as incredibly reactionary, as if we’re Newton’s Cradle.

[sabremike]

2 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I'm not sure I've met a Young Bucks fan in real life.  Even a couple people I know who will go to indy events from time to time are like "yeah,  they're okay.."  

This reminds me of when Nixon beat McGovern and a New York supporter of McGovern was quoted as saying she didn't know how Nixon won because nobody she knew voted for him. 

[Dolfan in NYC]

@piranesi's post just reminds me how much I miss the Batista Fashion Watch.  

[RIPPA]

Announced for RAW

Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe

Sasha/Bayley/Mickie James vs. Absolution... again

This goes along with the previously announced Lesnar showing up to set up the 3 way with Braun and Kane

And Cedric Alexander vs. Drew Gulak in a #1 contenders match for the Cruiserweight Title

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

My feelings towards the Young Bucks is that they are really good athletes capable of doing some crazy things, but I don't really want to watch them because it doesn't fit in with my expectations of what pro wrestling is. Same with Kenny Omega. I can respect what they are capable of doing while thinking their work is something I'd rather not spend my time or money watching.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

7 hours ago, Craig H said:

I fucking love the post-WM Raw. The crowd is only like THAT once a year and it's a nice palette cleanser after bullshit from the night before. If you're shelling out thousands upon thousands of dollars for those WM packages, then fuck it, have fun. 

Crowd chants and all that shit don't bother me. Not even the "WHAT" chant. If you're getting WHAT'ed, that's more on you than the crowd. It means your cadence and delivery needs work. We've seen wrestlers who get WHAT'ed and deal with it in the best ways possible and then other wrestlers continue on with their promo, delivering it exactly how it was written for them, and they get the WHAT chants for the whole entire promo.

Amen

...also Batista needed his own House of Style-like show 3-4 years ago

...and fuck Jim Cornette

[Burgundy LaRue]

i'm sure the women who were told who they were having sex with while trying to put on a match feel would agree.

And that's the problem with a lot of the chanting. It becomes a slippery slope. It goes from WHAT to CM PUNK to NIKKI FUCKS CENA quicker than anyone wants to admit.

[Casey]

As long as we're talking about chants with expletives in them, I loved the Fuck You Roman chants.

[odessasteps]

9 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

i'm sure the women who were told who they were having sex with while trying to put on a match feel would agree.

And that's the problem with a lot of the chanting. It becomes a slippery slope. It goes from WHAT to CM PUNK to NIKKI FUCKS CENA quicker than anyone wants to admit.

She's a crack whore, clap clap clap-clap-clap

[Brian Fowler]

Yeah that group of "x fucks y" chants were beyond the pale and disgusting