odessasteps Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 So, I accidentally read some spoilers the other day and one of them wasn't in this episode. i wonder if that means it will actually be in the finale. Dont want to say what it is, just in case. --- the idea of Arya masquerading as Sansa is intriguing, especially if she kills Littlefinger. Glad we were wrong about Gendry immediately getting reintroduced and then offed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Arya's one of the most hateful characters I've ever seen. That retarded 'badass' thing combined with just being simply retarded, and those stupid fucking scenes with Sansa. Jesus Christ. Fuck this entire episode, really. So much stupid horseshit that completely ruined the actually good moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I think Io9's headline was perfect. "Game of Thrones is at its best and worst right now" Although Arya is still probably my favorite character. I blame Bran for not telling them what's up with Littlefinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Maybe he did not tell them because he knows how it turns out and it's not good. #DoctorWesteros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo Necro Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 That was like Zulu but with Ice Zombies. "Wait till you see the blue of their eyes lads". Shed a tear when Thoros and Big Vis croaked it, fuck that Ice King. If Jorah, Tormund, Dondarrion or the Hound had croaked it I think I might have needed counselling, emotional wreck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterien Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Is it just me or is the music used in the preview for next week similar enough to the music used when Cersei used the wildfire last season? No way she lets all her enemies leave her house without some sort of scheme. I know the writers have to cram everything into 7 episodes but this season but last nights episode was the one that suffered most,some parts were too rushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I just disagree with the idea that GOT has fallen off. Everyone has grown with these characters over the years and has dreamed of one day seeing them come together and do big budget action adventure. Who hasn't said "I can't wait until...." ... "Just wait until we see..." and now all of that is here and people want to complain. I remember in seasons 1 and 2 people being pissed that key battles were glossed over etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterien Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Niners Fan in CT said: I just disagree with the idea that GOT has fallen off. Everyone has grown with these characters over the years and has dreamed of one day seeing them come together and do big budget action adventure. Who hasn't said "I can't wait until...." ... "Just wait until we see..." and now all of that is here and people want to complain. I remember in seasons 1 and 2 people being pissed that key battles were glossed over etc.. Oh I'm not saying its fallen off in quality, just that last nights ep was the ep where the loss of 3 episodes was felt the most in terms of rushed storytelling. It was still fricking awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Just now, peterien said: Oh I'm not saying its fallen off in quality, just that last nights ep was the ep where the loss of 3 episodes was felt the most in terms of rushed storytelling. It was still fricking awesome. I didn't mean you just that I'm seeing a lot of these gripes pop up here and everywhere. The timeline stuff is I believe because we don't have the ten episodes. But my question is are there conversations that we are missing out on? I don't believe so.. we know everyone's motivations. I don't feel like any of this "in between" journey stuff would have brought anything new to the table. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterien Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: I didn't mean you just that I'm seeing a lot of these gripes pop up here and everywhere. The timeline stuff is I believe because we don't have the ten episodes. But my question is are there conversations that we are missing out on? I don't believe so.. we know everyone's motivations. I don't feel like any of this "in between" journey stuff would have brought anything new to the table. Probably not but its what we've grown accustomed to over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I have a feeling Jorah will die taking a bullet for Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throat Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Jon, Sansa and Arya are such idiots. From the start of the series, the plot has been propelled by Stark stupidity. They take after Ned. Maester Luwin instantly knew Sansa's note was written under duress. Arya's just clinging to an old feud her and Sansa had when they were both children. She's picking up exactly where they left off in season one despite how much they've changed. Littlefinger's playing these dopes like a fiddle. I've seen people try to explain away their stupidity like they're actually playing him, but he wasn't in that room with them. If it's all an act, they'd probably want to make sure he witnesses it. Do they just assume he's always listening under the door? So that means Arya's cool with him knowing her Faceless Men secrets? And what if everyone in Winterfell found out that Arya was once Tywin's cupbearer? She had no choice there, but neither did Sansa. She also failed to kill him. She had a master assassin willing to kill any three men for her and she wasted it on a few nobodies. How many Stark bannermen died because of that missed opportunity? Not to mention her mother and brother. Let all the lords of the North know about that when you spill the beans about your sister. It's only fair. Going beyond the wall for a wight was a horrible idea. Seeing a zombie is not going to stop Cersei from scheming, and the plan was poorly executed. Bring more men. Bring some ravens. Send out scouts beforehand. Put a little thought into it before walking through the gate. EDIT: Also, why didn't everyone who went north of the wall have a dragonglass weapon? YOU JUST CAME FROM A DRAGONGLASS MINE! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I saw this posted around the web and thought I'd share it, I actually think we are talking less than 4 days. Dragons of that size can probably fly pretty damn quick. Since there has been a lot of contention about the speed with which the Raven and Dany fly back and forth to get to our heroes, I thought it would be fun to do some math and see if it's in any way possible. So how long would Jon and company be sitting on that rock waiting to be rescued while the ice thickens enough to support an army of undead? Here are the things we need to figure out to do so: How long would it take Gendry to get to the wall from where they were attacked? -I don't think they traveled very far past the wall since it is stated that they Night King was already near Eastwatch to begin with. Not to mention that the journey for our heroes seems to take place within the course of less than a day. No campfire, no nighttime. I think it would be reasonable to assume that the run back to the wall could have been done within 6 hours. How fast and how far can a Raven fly? -This is a little trickier since these Ravens live in a fantasy world but I think the best way to think of them is like real life carrier pigeons, which can travel up to 1100 miles at an average speed of 50MPH according to this:http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Ravens and this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homing_pigeon. How far is it from Eastwatch to Dragonstone? -There never seems to be a map that's perfectly accurate depending on what you read so I went with this one: http://www.sermountaingoat.co.uk/map/versions/map_canon_only.jpg. Which means that they are 1900 miles apart. Let's call it 2000 since I'm sure Raven's don't travel in a perfectly straight line. So this means that a Raven could travel from Eastwatch to Dragonstone in 40 hours without sleeping or eating/drinking. Give it 8 hours worth of rest along the way and that puts it at an even 2 days journey. Now, How long will it take Daenerys to do the same journey? No idea really. I can't find any solid info on how fast or how long Dragon's can fly. So I'm going to assume they can fly at least as long as Ravens and say it will take another 2 days for her to reach our heroes near Eastwatch. Overall this means a 4 day and 6 hour period for Dany to come to the rescue. So could our heroes possible last that long on their little island? Well we don't really have anyway of marking the passage of time here, except that we know the Wights had to wait until the ice around them froze hard enough for them to walk on. SOOOO..... How long does it take for water to freeze until it's thick enough to walk on? -Well according to this http://www.outdoorcanada.ca/How_Fast_Does_Your_Lake_Make_Ice , if we assume that north of the wall has an average temperature of -20 F (which is anyone's guess really but we'll assume the coldest point on the chart), this would mean in 4 days the ice could have gotten up to 12 inches thick in average conditions. According to the article, this means no snow and no clouds (both of which can reduce the ice forming process by half. Since there was both snow and clouds at the time, this could mean that anywhere from 6-12 inches of ice would have formed in 4 days time. Now is that enough to support the weight of a human being or wight? According to http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/safety/ice/thickness.html it would take 4" of ice to be safe to go Ice fishing, 5-7" for snowmobiling, and 8-15" for various automobiles. Since we are talking about an army of undead crossing the ice and engaging in open combat I would be willing to assume we would need at least the 5-7" of ice required for snowmobiling, if not more like the 8-15" required by automobiles. All those bodies and jerky motions create alot of stress on the ice. IN CONCLUSION: It seems to me that the just over 4 day travel time required for Dany to to receive the Raven and fly to Eastwatch, seems to line up accurately with the amount of time it would take ice to grow enough to support an army of undead to fight on top of it in those conditions. Thanks to D&D for doing the science : ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 In four days, their water would have frozen solid and they likely would've frozen to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Still water freezes, moving water doesn't. So as long as they give the water bottles a shake every few hours, they'll be OK. Or just melt them with the flaming sword they've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 These last few episodes centered around the Wight Heist are definitely the most like a TV Show that this show has felt. Say what you will about GRRM's laborious, convoluted plotting (and I've said plenty!), things in his books rarely feel like they're happening just because he needs something else to happen. All this business North of the Wall is quintessential Writer's Room - "We need x, y, z to happen by the end of the season, how do we get there?" And then filling in the blanks by the most dramatic means possible but also without fully comprehending (or caring about?) the logic or the ramifications of how they're going about it. That's why so many people have been kinda taken aback by it and commenting negatively. Even if they're not conscious of it, people can sense that - without putting too dramatic of a point on it - the soul of the show has changed. And it's not just about the loosely-goosey plotting. It's about how there's next to no time for great character moments anymore, there's no significant ramifications to the violence anymore, how the tropes of the genre are being leaned into rather than subverted now...Everything under the hood feels different. And that's surprising to me, because up until now, Weis & Benioff have been so smart in how they've adapted and deviated from and added to the books. They've had their stumbles along the way, but nothing like this. I mean, Cersei blowing up the Sept of Balor was almost certainly their invention, and that was fantastic and still felt of a piece with the best of GRRM's stuff. But this is not great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I mean, on one hand, it was always going to have to become more conventional fantasy at the end, since it's always been building to a massive good vs evil, living vs dead conflict. But the "catch a Wight" plan was always incredibly fucking stupid, both in continuity and as a plot device. But then there's HOLYFUCKINGSHITZOMBIEICEDRAGON 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 The last couple of episodes have basically been plotted like a JJ Abrams movie, where the emphasis is on the beats with little regard for how the story moves between the beats, and, in fact, seeks to keep the story moving as briskly as possible so you don't have time to think about how none of it makes sense. It's not until afterwards, when you can think about it for longer than 10 seconds, that everybody starts realizing what a load of bullshit it was. Unfortunately for Weis & Benioff, TV shows afford viewers 167 hours per week to think about this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said: I mean, on one hand, it was always going to have to become more conventional fantasy at the end, since it's always been building to a massive good vs evil, living vs dead conflict. But the "catch a Wight" plan was always incredibly fucking stupid, both in continuity and as a plot device. But then there's HOLYFUCKINGSHITZOMBIEICEDRAGON So what you're saying is that a random group of assembled folks catching one like a squirrel in the woods, bringing it all the way to King's Landing, and then presenting it as proof that they are an unstoppable army to an already disillusioned woman doesn't make sense? Crazy talk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyWhioux Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I think the best illustration of the problem was when Beric suggested taking out The Night's King to end the horde with one blow, and Jon's objection to the plan was not "there's no way we can get close enough to him to do it", but "no we need to keep this one animated." Buddhists say "never confuse the finger pointing to the moon with the moon" and Jon's line is a case of the writing team doing exactly that. Proving shit to Cersei has become the end, rather than the means to the end, because they're rushing along from plot point to plot point, from high spot to high spot. In this moment Jon is effectively waiting on the top rope while his opponent fumbles with setting up the table in the middle of the ring because he can't jump on him until there's a table to go through. Take out the Night's King (if you assume for the sake of argument it's actually doable in that situation) and you no longer have to prove a damn thing to Cersei or anyone else, because you've just solved the problem and now don't need their help. And that's not even touch on how hard it is to believe any of the characters believe the odds of convincing Cersei are worth all this danger and sacrifice in the first place. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 How did Beric know the Night's King by sight anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcosLoura Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Fuck this show is dumb. If Through The Fire And The Flames doesn't play at the final battle I'll be mildly disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Comparing what the showrunners do to GRRM I just don't see it... the guy hasn't finished a book in SIX YEARS. They are given an outline by him and then have a deadline to meet. They need to put this stuff on screen in a timely manner. He can sit on his ass all he wants. nobody wants to accept that he really doesn't even care to finish these books or at least that's how it seems. He probably will never finish them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I will be curious if we later find out which things from the TV show later years were George and were B&W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts