The Nature Boy Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Angle did a decent job getting Haas and Benjamin over in 2003. He's still a good mouthpiece and definitely deserving of an on-air role in some capacity. At least having Angle will help Jordan and Gable stand out and avoid becoming the tag team version of Jack Swagger. I don't know if I'd want Kurt at the PC, to be honest with you. He's not exactly someone with the best habits in the ring. As a kayfabe mentor, he works but as a real life one? I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 2015 Kurt Angle is a far cry from 2003 Kurt Angle. I get what you are saying, but I think he'd overshadow them. I think at this point, they should try to avoid WGTT comparisons as much as possible, and those of "Gable is the next Angle" thoughts. Let them stand on their own. Having Angle as an on screen mentor immediately puts them in a box to where they'll never be able to stand out on their own. They're doing great right now and are monster over with NXT crowds without needing to rely on an old legend. I think Kurt would bog them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Kofi still sucks at actually wrestling.He never sucked at wrestling, he just had no character to speak of for about 8 years. He sucks at wrestling. The only time his offense has looked even slightly credible is that time he botched his finisher and nearly kicked Miz's face into orbit. Even Ziggler's offense looks stiff in comparison to Kofi. I'd take 20 Kofi Kingstons before another Low Ki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeball Wizard Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Plus, any foreign wrestler that gets over they can turn them heel and have them feud with Swagger for a few months. He's this generation's Sgt. Slaughter. That seems like a good fit, with a couple minor changes. An over-the-top patriotic gimmick would be a good addition, and give him a nudge in the direction of having an actual niche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTTW Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 What he actually said was most of the time people weren't heaping praise on RAW. Which is true - but there have been a shitload of good episodes of RAW in the last 13 years. Dude just hasn't bothered to check them out. One good episode being good followed by a really sub par one has just kept me going, ehhhh I think I'll watch something else. It was a way easier choice picking shows like Breaking Bad or GOT over the gamble that any RAW episode was going to be worthwhile. I've seen bits and pieces, but it boggles my mind that people have been watching the whole show continuously for 20+ years. I get it, there's some high points, but if those low points occurred on any other show you liked, would you have kept watching? Can RAW actually jump the shark or is it so far beyond normal tv it's not possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I think you somehow need to find a way to pretend like the whole "We The People" thing didn't start as a super racist heel angle. Which, the thing with Zeb/ADR just highlighted it. "Hey Zeb, I know this isn't you, you're racist, you'd never be with this Mexican, what's the deal man" isn't really good for a face character to be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caley Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Swagger reminds me so much of Mike Awesome in ECW in that he has fun matches, is a credible wrestler in the ring, pops the crowd, but cannot ACT to save his life. Every time he talks, it just comes across like a guy who doesn't believe a word he says. ECW solved that by putting Awesome with a manager, and getting him to just swear a lot in his promos. WWE should follow half of that format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuerrillaMonsoon Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Swagger reminds me so much of Mike Awesome in ECW in that he has fun matches, is a credible wrestler in the ring, pops the crowd, but cannot ACT to save his life. Every time he talks, it just comes across like a guy who doesn't believe a word he says. ECW solved that by putting Awesome with a manager, and getting him to just swear a lot in his promos. WWE should follow half of that format. Put "I'M GONNA BREAKTH YOUR MUPHATHUCKIN ANKLE" on a t-shirt, licence to print money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'm almost afraid to float this, as it's probably the worst god damn idea, and I don't wanna get this thread shut down with 3 days left in the year, but seriously, the best way to get Jack Swagger and Zeb "relevant" again would be if they started campaigning for a certain WWE HOFer's presidential bid. Regardless of how you feel about it personally, it would be the closest to a Bret vs. America kind of tweener reaction we've gotten arguably since that time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 That'd be fine if you want them as heels again. But if the discussion is for a face Swagger run, I don't know about that. Although, I don't think people would really care about it that much either way. It'd get more reaction from media than live audiences, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Battle of the Billionaires 2 with Vince & Jerry Jones. Swagger can represent either side, and it might boost his credibility a little. As far up as your cred can go when fighting a battle for a geriatric billionaire, anyway. I don't know what football team is currently the "rival" of the Cowboys, but get someone from that state to represent Vince and you're on. Or just do it again with Trump at WM33 when he fails to win the White House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 equal time? in US politics? hahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'm almost afraid to float this, as it's probably the worst god damn idea, and I don't wanna get this thread shut down with 3 days left in the year, but seriously, the best way to get Jack Swagger and Zeb "relevant" again would be if they started campaigning for a certain WWE HOFer's presidential bid. Regardless of how you feel about it personally, it would be the closest to a Bret vs. America kind of tweener reaction we've gotten arguably since that time That would make them faces again. That's what happened when they were booked as anti-immigration peckerwoods and booking them as pro-Trump would be similar. Wrestling fans don't do nuance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'm almost afraid to float this, as it's probably the worst god damn idea, and I don't wanna get this thread shut down with 3 days left in the year, but seriously, the best way to get Jack Swagger and Zeb "relevant" again would be if they started campaigning for a certain WWE HOFer's presidential bid. Regardless of how you feel about it personally, it would be the closest to a Bret vs. America kind of tweener reaction we've gotten arguably since that time That would make them faces again. That's what happened when they were booked as anti-immigration peckerwoods and booking them as pro-Trump would be similar. Wrestling fans don't do nuance. See Muhammad Hassan's run before WWE said "screw nuance" and just made him a terrorist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Exactly. That was a cool gimmick at first. "We were born here, we're not terrorists, but we've been treated like shit since 9/11" was awesome and doomed to failure. It lasted, what, three weeks? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Exactly. That was a cool gimmick at first. "We were born here, we're not terrorists, but we've been treated like shit since 9/11" was awesome and doomed to failure. It lasted, what, three weeks? He kept that up for a while but the crowd still booed him and the WWE faces did blatantly racist things (see Steve Austin saying, "I see sand people."), both of which really only proved that he was right. When your faces are telling another American to "love it or leave it," you have some severe narrative issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTTW Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Didn't Hassan piss off the entire locker room? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caley Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Exactly. That was a cool gimmick at first. "We were born here, we're not terrorists, but we've been treated like shit since 9/11" was awesome and doomed to failure. It lasted, what, three weeks? He kept that up for a while but the crowd still booed him and the WWE faces did blatantly racist things (see Steve Austin saying, "I see sand people."), both of which really only proved that he was right. When your faces are telling another American to "love it or leave it," you have some severe narrative issues. Man, I do NOT recall this. Anyone wanna give me some context/find me a youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdangerously Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Didn't Hassan piss off the entire locker room? There was an infamous moment where he bitched out Eddie Guerrero for using a camel clutch, not realizing that Eddie's father created the hold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Kofi still sucks at actually wrestling.He never sucked at wrestling, he just had no character to speak of for about 8 years. He sucks at wrestling. The only time his offense has looked even slightly credible is that time he botched his finisher and nearly kicked Miz's face into orbit. Even Ziggler's offense looks stiff in comparison to Kofi. Kofi is the best example of there being more to being a good wrestler than doing good moves. Because he can have a good match even though there's nothing good in his moveset. Part of the reason he's having better matches now he's in the New Day, is because he never (or rarely, anyway) actually does his signature spots any more. Now he's doing generic heel kicking and stomping for the most part, and cut out his crowd participation legdrop and his low impact goofy cradle, he can make his matches more about telling the story of the match, and less about getting his shit in. By way of comparison, Davey Richards has some good moves (he also has some embarrassingly shit ones, and some moves that would be good if they were done by the right person, but are completely wrong for him) but he's a terrible wrestler... he's like RVD*, every time you see he's got a match coming up you think "That could be good if he doesn't crowbar all of his bullshit spots in there". Then you watch it, and there's all of his bullshit spots again. * I saw an RVD vs Dr Wagner Jr. match. If it had been Wagner saying "Today RVD, you are a technico bitch and I'm going to beat the shit out of you for 85% of this match" it would have been good. But instead, RVD said "Today Dr Wagner Jr., you are a generic Sabu ripoff. Now lie down and hold this chair for me". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'm almost afraid to float this, as it's probably the worst god damn idea, and I don't wanna get this thread shut down with 3 days left in the year, but seriously, the best way to get Jack Swagger and Zeb "relevant" again would be if they started campaigning for a certain WWE HOFer's presidential bid. Regardless of how you feel about it personally, it would be the closest to a Bret vs. America kind of tweener reaction we've gotten arguably since that time Depending on which part of the country they appear in, he'd either be the most hated heel ever, or a super face. I like that idea. Of course, it would all go to hell when Trump inevitably makes fun of Jack's speech impediment, but it'd be a fun ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Didn't Hassan piss off the entire locker room? There was an infamous moment where he bitched out Eddie Guerrero for using a camel clutch, not realizing that Eddie's father created the hold. I heard that story and it's kind of dumb. Who cares who created the move? The point is that Eddie was using Hassan's finish. Yes, everybody loves Eddie and the rookie should have handled things better with a veteran, but he did have a point. Seriously, how did that conversation go? Hassan: Hey Eddie, you used the camel clutch in your match and I'm on later. That's my finish. Eddie: Fuck you man my dad created that move! One thing has nothing to do with the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRR Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Can we stop dreaming about Jordan and Gable merging like voltron in to some kind of mecha Kurt Angle 2.0? I'd really like for these guys to break out on their own and not be Kurt Angle or WGTT cosplayers. The stink of 50 million finisher kick out matches still looms a bit in WWE because of Angle making it a standard of his matches. The only time Kurt should ever return to WWE is to be inducted in to the hall of fame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I like Gable but I feel like he's overhyped by Meltzer and Observer HOF voter types who are aching for someone "legit" to cheer for. Same types who voted Angle in well before he should have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Can we stop dreaming about Jordan and Gable merging like voltron in to some kind of mecha Kurt Angle 2.0? I'd really like for these guys to break out on their own and not be Kurt Angle or WGTT cosplayers. The stink of 50 million finisher kick out matches still looms a bit in WWE because of Angle making it a standard of his matches. The only time Kurt should ever return to WWE is to be inducted in to the hall of fame. They're two former amateur wrestlers. Why not take advantage of their background? Why have them "break out on their own" when there's a ready made gimmick? With the current creative team, they'd just be bland tag team #854 anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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