Wrestlemania Triple X! - Thread 2

[Buy Me a Burrito]

Cesaro or Reigns could have ended the streak and left the WWE in a year, or blown out a knee/hurt their neck and never work again. Lesnar had "real" credibility. If he never wrestles another match or appears on WWE tv again beating Taker would still seem legit. 

[J.T.]

 

I get what you're saying, but it took 3 F5s, and the first was mainly used as a transition and the second as just a babyface hope spot cut off. I'm not sure if I'd call that "protecting," even by weird WWE Main Event logic. 

 

And I will add that last night really showed a problem with WWE Main Event logic in context of an overall show. First match the Pedigree gets kicked out of. Bray kicked out of the AA and Cena kicked out of Sister Abigail. By the time Lesnar nails his first F5 no one is buying these moments as nearfalls and the kickouts mean less. 

 

 

They protected the F5 as best they could whlle still making UT seem larger than life.  No one would've been happy with the Streak would end with UT tapping out to Brock's hammerlock, so mutliple F5's to kill UT dead and Brock having to work extra hard for his win against a legend was the lesser of two evils...so to speak.

 

I really don't see the Wyat, Cena, or Bryan kick-outs as meaningless.  It's Wrestlemania.  Everyone ups their game during that event and you expect transcendent performances from guys looking to make their careers or simply make a statement.  I am glad I still believe in kayfabe.

[Matt D]

Bryan won due to the Armstrong curse.

[ingrsco]

I think someone already said this, but watching Cena-Wyatt again this morning, it would be a great match if it was the second or third in the feud. If Wyatt had already beaten Cena last month, the whole "Cena can't win unless he embraces the eeeeeeevil" story would have felt like it meant a lot more and maybe justified the goofy "Nope, Vanilla 4 Life!" stuff. As it is, i think I still liked the match more than a lot of y'all, but it definitely feels like they skipped a step.

 

I feel like they will continue the feud and give Wyatt his win at the next PPV but it does feel like a missed step. While I hoped Bray would win I wasn't expecting them to do it at Mania. I still dug the match though as I wrote it off to Super Cena does it again.

[pipGofern]

I think Brock being the guy fits in perfectly with his career narrative. He beat Rock for the title when Rock was in his prime and was still more of a wrestler than actor dabbling in wrestling. So Brock ended the run Rock had been on since '98. He beat Hogan in his last WWE match. He beat Randy Couture to end his miraculous comeback run.

 

He is the *real* Legend Killer so it makes perfect sense for him to be the guy who ultimately ends the streak.

 

I get why people would've rather seen it continue but honestly I felt it was on the verge of getting too predictable. There's only so many times you can sell the idea that "watch this guy you expect to win a match win again!" before it becomes cliche. Maybe it was a year or two early but to paraphrase a sports cliche, it's better to go out a year early when you legitimately shock the world than a year too late.

 

What an awesome moment. Definitely one of those things people will always remember where they were and what they were doing vividly years from now. I was at a Mania party with about a dozen people - a couple brought gfs who couldn't care less about WWE - and when the three count hit we all just looked around the room at each other doing that silent "Did that just happen?" look. Unreal.

[S.K.o.S.]

 

Cena/Bray seemed like a match that might come across better on tv. Looked like they were going for a lot of subtle things with Cena's demeanor, so I'll definitely need to give that a re-watch. Had some good spots and some weird spots.

 

 

Still got 6 pages to read through so this might already have been mentioned, but it's interesting that it came off that way live, because on tv it was the opposite of subtle.  I guess that's a case of what they say about showing emotion in wrestling... you gotta play to the back row.

[jaedmc]

They protected the F5 as best they could whlle still making UT seem larger than life.  No one would've been happy with the Streak would end with UT tapping out to Brock's hammerlock, so mutliple F5's to kill UT dead and Brock having to work extra hard for his win against a legend was the lesser of two evils...so to speak.

 

I really don't see the Wyat, Cena, or Bryan kick-outs as meaningless.  It's Wrestlemania.  Everyone ups their game during that event and you expect transcendent performances from guys looking to make their careers or simply make a statement.  I am glad I still believe in kayfabe.

 

Didn't say they were meaningless. They just meant...less over time. It meant something that Daniel Bryan kicked out of the Pedigree. It meant something that Wyatt kicked out of the AA. But it becomes less surprising the further it goes on. You just expect three or four finisher trade-offs, which kind of lessens the importance of it. 

 

I totally justify it the same way you do: It's Mania and everyone is digging down DEEEEP. But even with that in mind it doesn't make Undertaker kicking out of the first two F5's or Brock kicking out of a tombstone any more suspenseful. They were perfunctory. 

[EVA]

It's too bad nobody knew this Taker loss was coming. We could've gotten some great Red Wedding-esque reaction videos out of it.

[J.T.]

I totally justify it the same way you do: It's Mania and everyone is digging down DEEEEP. But even with that in mind it doesn't make Undertaker kicking out of the first two F5's or Brock kicking out of a tombstone any more suspenseful. They were perfunctory.

 

Well, yeah.  the smark in you does expect false finishes and they happen in a very predictable manner.  Even when you try to remain open minded about it, you know when a finish is going to remain solid and when someone is going to kick out.

 

If the bookers really wanted to be creative and bold, they'd have let Brock kill UT with an F5 fifteen minutes into the match, but that would mean booking UT weak on the last match of his Streak on a Wrestlemania.  People would have set their seats on fire minutes after recovering from the initial shock but the jpgs of angry fans would've been fucking metal.

 

That being said, what went down last night was the best possible outcome if the outcome had to arrive bundled wth the end of the Streak.

[The Natural]

If the rumour about Daniel Bryan vs. The Undertaker at this WrestleMania was true and with how over Bryan is with the fans, would Bryan avoid a backlash if he ended The Streak or not?

[jaedmc]

I don't think it's just "the smark" in me. It's them conditioning me to expect it by doing it so much.  However I totally bought Daniel Bryan losing to that Batista Bomb. It happened so fast in the most perfect of ways, and I was certain WWE was about to fuck me ONE MORE TIME. That's after knowing there was no way in hell Daniel Bryan was losing after Undertaker lost.

[S.K.o.S.]

 

I assume Orton messed himself up on the monitor because the match literally stopped dead at this point and it looked like no one knew what to do.

 

Orton was clearly hurt, but I would say at least part of that was them trying to make it look like Bryan was legitimately KOed.

[J.T.]

If the rumour about Daniel Bryan vs. The Undertaker at this WrestleMania was true and with how over Bryan is with the fans, would Bryan avoid a backlash if he ended The Streak or not?

 

I honestly thought that they wouldn't end the streak until next year with an inevitable Bryan vs. UT match with the Title vs. Streak / Retirement stip.  Least amount of backlash and fans would go home happy no matter who won.

[J.T.]

I don't think it's just "the smark" in me. It's them conditioning me to expect it by doing it so much.  However I totally bought Daniel Bryan losing to that Batista Bomb. It happened so fast in the most perfect of ways, and I was certain WWE was about to fuck me ONE MORE TIME. That's after knowing there was no way in hell Daniel Bryan was losing after Undertaker lost.

 

That's really a failure of Wrestlemania booking as a whole being super predictable over the years and knowing that is totally tied to the smark in you.

 

You know that Vince never sends an audience home unhappy at Wrestlemania.   Evil wins at SummerSlam.

 

If the co-main is booked down, then the main will be booked up.  Once Brock pinned UT, I think we all knew that Daniel was going to win the title via Wonded Underdog booking.

 

SummerSlam is closer to the release of GoTG, so Batista's title reign will go down closer to the end of Summer, if at all.  I can't see Dave signing a limited appearance contract that didn't include a small title run to promote the movie, though.

[JRGoldman]

I think that the build required for a younger 'up and comer' to face Taker after five straight years of him only fighting other sure fire hall of famers would have spoiled the reaction shots they wanted. Sure, there still would have been plenty of shock, but there also would have been a ton of dudes racing to tell their friends 'I told you so!' I think by having Taker lose to Brock, you really maximize the post match stuff, which from here on out is way more important to the WWE than the streak.

I have no idea if this is true or not, but my friend who watched the show with me said since the first Michaels match, all of Taker's mania opponents have gone to TX and worked out with him and rehearsed, for lack of a better word. Brock supposedly refused, and if that's the case I think it showed.

Also, I'm a bit sad no one is talking about Michael Cole's voice cracking when Bryan won. I thought it made everything seem so real and emotional.

Count me in the camp that liked the Wyatt match, for the most part. I think if Wyatt had won, it would be more universally lauded right now. Not necessarily because people don't want to see Cena win, but because the story they told for the first two thirds of that match made a really awkward transition to Cena's usual big match finish. I think Cena deserves a ton of credit for wrestling a really different style and getting way outside his comfort zone for a large portion on the match. It just didn't seem as though they could find a finish that told the story they needed for Cena while also building on what already happened, instead of having a pretty standard 'overcoming the odds' finishing stretch.

[Valcourt]

I wonder if CM Punk enjoyed the show?

 

Also, when Bryan hit the knee on Orton, I thought Bootista was gonna grab the pin. Last stretch was pretty epic. Loved it.

[JohnnyJ]

Taker was sacrificed to cure two of WWEs past sins:

1.) As much as we all enjoy the streak WWE backed themselves into a corner. Each year they had to come up with a legit adversary for Taker who was going to step up to the plate and predictably fail. You could argue it takes some of the fun out of wrestling and in a way exposes it.

2.) Brock's invincibility was obliterated at Extreme Rules 12 and they did nothing to help him recover with the HHH feud. He became a monster with more bark than bite. This is the reset of the mess they made.

Great mania and it gets me so excited about the future. The best is yet to come.

[Chaos]

I'll be interested to watch this show on the Network later. I was in the Superdome and it was just a surreal atmosphere. Time felt like it froze once Taker was defeated. People in the crowd were confused. A few people popped because it seemed like Taker kicked out at the last possible second, and then silence, and then commotion, and then that 21-1 graphic flashed on the monitors before Roberts made it official and Brock's music hit.

 

I am surprised that people are saying it was a bad match. It felt like a good match to me that the crowd was just quiet for throughout because Taker's went felt so anticlimatic, and Brock didn't work his normal chaotic style.

 

I thought the arm work on Lesnar was well done and told a story, and I thought Lesner working Taker's knee was equally as effective but was ultimately meaningless with the finish.

 

Two things I also thought were odd live. I got to my seat in time for the end of the four way tag. The corridors to get to the sections were clogged and tough to navigate. It took at least 30 minutes once I grabbed my souvenir cup to fight everyone just being stuck. With that said, no Anthem or America the beautiful along with no official attendance announcement were two odd things not to happen.

[jaedmc]

 

I don't think it's just "the smark" in me. It's them conditioning me to expect it by doing it so much.  However I totally bought Daniel Bryan losing to that Batista Bomb. It happened so fast in the most perfect of ways, and I was certain WWE was about to fuck me ONE MORE TIME. That's after knowing there was no way in hell Daniel Bryan was losing after Undertaker lost.

 

That's really a failure of Wrestlemania booking as a whole being super predictable over the years and knowing that is totally tied to the smark in you.

 

I'm refusing to acknowledge there's anything in my body called a smark, tho.

[RIPPA]

Random thoughts as I just went through the show

 

- Steph was the MVP. It really does amuses me how much better a hell she is than anyone else in the locker room. Of course she is really the only person truly allowed to be a heel. Which also makes me giggle when you remember FACE OF THE WWE TO WOMEN AND GIRLS!!!

 

- The camera work was atrocious

 

- So the longest term booking was "Scott Armstrong - crooked ref"

 

- Michael Cole really needs to stop calling spots before they happen

 

- I am assuming if they aren't already - the Luke Harper vests will be sold shortly

 

- There were a couple of fans I am now convinced were plants for the Taker/Brock match. And for his sake - I hope the guy in the Hulkmania doo rag crying was one of them

 

- The shit eating grin on Batista's face when he went to steal the pin might be the highlight of Mania for me (outside of Renee Young)

[pipGofern]

See I would argue this was the best possible way to end the streak. With a legit "HOLY SHIT!" moment.

 

Perhaps it's just me but to me, the worst possible way to end it would've been in predictable fashion. I understand the arguments for using it to "put over" a Roman Reigns or Bryan or whatever but how anticlimactic would that be? Like the second HBK-Taker match was awesome but did suffer a bit from the fact most people already knew HBK was ready to retire.

 

I dunno, after all these years, I just think it'd suck for us to know Taker was ready to retire going into his final Streak Match and then seeing it broken that way as opposed to out of the blue like last night.

[jaedmc]

- Michael Cole really needs to stop calling spots before they happen

 

Also add Cole to the list of guys who fucks up the suspense of the nearfall. "That's it streak over. Kickout." GTFO.

[SirSmUgly]

It's interesting that so many of you were so moved by the streak ending. Maybe it was due to the really flat build but it felt like such an after thought to me last night in the face of all the Bryan stuff. It feels to me like the main point to it being broken was to set up Brock as a challenge for Bryan.

 

'Taker's had that thing since I was about eight or nine years old. I thought about this for a bit after he lost. Then I thought about how old Taker looks now. Then I thought about how old I am now. 

 

This match led me to thinking about my own mortality. Appropriate for any angle involving the Undertaker, I guess. 

[J.T.]

 

 

I don't think it's just "the smark" in me. It's them conditioning me to expect it by doing it so much.  However I totally bought Daniel Bryan losing to that Batista Bomb. It happened so fast in the most perfect of ways, and I was certain WWE was about to fuck me ONE MORE TIME. That's after knowing there was no way in hell Daniel Bryan was losing after Undertaker lost.

 

That's really a failure of Wrestlemania booking as a whole being super predictable over the years and knowing that is totally tied to the smark in you.

 

I'm refusing to acknowledge there's anything in my body called a smark, tho.

 

 

The absence of acknowledgment <> absence of existence, my friend.

[S.K.o.S.]

 

Two things I also thought were odd live. I got to my seat in time for the end of the four way tag. The corridors to get to the sections were clogged and tough to navigate. It took at least 30 minutes once I grabbed my souvenir cup to fight everyone just being stuck. With that said, no Anthem or America the beautiful along with no official attendance announcement were two odd things not to happen.

 

Yeah, when the PPV started off with Steph in the ring, I was thinking "My god, are they going to have her sing America The Beautiful??"