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I was looking at thehistoryofwwe.com and it looks like Flair and Bret had a 60 minute Iron Man match in Boston in January 1993. Does anyone know if footage of this match exists?

I think Bret talks about this in his book.  I once heard there is a tape.  

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I love Kevin Nash, but it really just hit me that there was a (brief) period where Kevin FN Nash booked a major wrestling promotion during one of wrestling's hottest periods. Good grief. WCW gon' WCW.

 

I like how in The Death Of WCW book it talked about how in 1999 Nash had a meeting with all the WCW talent and pretty much laid blame on Flair, Bret, Benoit, Jericho, Eddy, Rey, Malenko, Raven and Saturn- the most talented workers in WCW at the time- for the sagging ratings. 

 

I like Kevin Nash, but that book will make you hate him.  He was just a guy in it for himself.  His booking was just insane when you look back at it.  

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I read the book years ago, back when it first came out. It certainly didn't portray Nash in a positive light, although who knows how much of it was accurate. I'm not saying that the authors intentionally made stuff up in order to make Nash look bad, but there's really no way to validate wrestling "journalism".

 

Still, can't believe that Kevin Nash booked a major company for any stretch in 1998/1999.

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I was looking at thehistoryofwwe.com and it looks like Flair and Bret had a 60 minute Iron Man match in Boston in January 1993. Does anyone know if footage of this match exists?

 

Here's the Bret vs. Flair Iron Man Match:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0vTw0V9lz4

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It's actually really good too. 

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I wouldnt think you need to make stuff up to make Nash look bad

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It's a shame the WWF had quit filming Boston Garden house shows by then. That match in high quality would be AMAZING.

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The whole Kliq to me is such an interesting chapter in wrestling. On one hand each of the guys were very talented. On the other hand, they abused their positions and were often only loyal to each other.

 

In my opinion, just how terrible they were gets glossed over because history is written by the victors, and HHH unquestionably won.

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The whole Kliq to me is such an interesting chapter in wrestling. On one hand each of the guys were very talented. On the other hand, they abused their positions and were often only loyal to each other.

 

In my opinion, just how terrible they were gets glossed over because history is written by the victors, and HHH unquestionably won.

 

I'm watching the Triple H DVD documentary and it's interesting to hear HHH say that if not for the Curtain Call, he would've feuded with Shawn for the WWF Championship. There's NO way that that would've happened, right?

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Trips was hopelessly stuck i nthe midcard at that point. Winning the KotR that year would've elevated him for sure but he wouldn't have been in the World title picture.

 

James

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Trips was hopelessly stuck i nthe midcard at that point. Winning the KotR that year would've elevated him for sure but he wouldn't have been in the World title picture.

 

James

 

I always feel like the "punishment" that HHH received is always overstated. He won the Intercontinental Championship later in the year. As we've seen in recent years, when WWE wants to bury someone, they typically don't give them TV time and title reigns. 

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Trips probably thinks he was in line for a World title program because on the Bret/Shawn DVD Bret remembers Shawn saying the only people he was interested in working with during that period were his friends.

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Trips was hopelessly stuck i nthe midcard at that point. Winning the KotR that year would've elevated him for sure but he wouldn't have been in the World title picture.

 

James

 

I always feel like the "punishment" that HHH received is always overstated. He won the Intercontinental Championship later in the year. As we've seen in recent years, when WWE wants to bury someone, they typically don't give them TV time and title reigns.

 

What are you talking about? Until recently, the IC Title had been the kiss of death.

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Trips was hopelessly stuck i nthe midcard at that point. Winning the KotR that year would've elevated him for sure but he wouldn't have been in the World title picture.

James

I always feel like the "punishment" that HHH received is always overstated. He won the Intercontinental Championship later in the year. As we've seen in recent years, when WWE wants to bury someone, they typically don't give them TV time and title reigns.

What are you talking about? Until recently, the IC Title had been the kiss of death.

And the US titled doesn't get defended cause of all the paper work

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Trips was hopelessly stuck i nthe midcard at that point. Winning the KotR that year would've elevated him for sure but he wouldn't have been in the World title picture.

 

James

 

I always feel like the "punishment" that HHH received is always overstated. He won the Intercontinental Championship later in the year. As we've seen in recent years, when WWE wants to bury someone, they typically don't give them TV time and title reigns.

 

What are you talking about? Until recently, the IC Title had been the kiss of death.

 

 

When WWE wants to bury someone, they tend to depush them heavily on TV and job them out. They certainly don't get the Intercontinental Title five months later. You could MAYBE argue that feuding with Marc Mero over the IC Title was a punishment in itself. But in 1996, the Intercontinental Championship was at least worth something.

 

Triple H was never really jobbed out, at least not to the extent that "history" portrays it.  Given the way the story is told, you would think that HHH turned into Zack Ryder (after his US Title run).

 

I would also argue that the World Heavyweight Championship in its later years was the equivalent of the IC Title of the 90s.

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I was looking at thehistoryofwwe.com and it looks like Flair and Bret had a 60 minute Iron Man match in Boston in January 1993. Does anyone know if footage of this match exists?

 

I've never seen a pro shot version, but there's a fancam of it around.  Great match.  The back half of the match is laid out extremely well.

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Had Triple H been put in a WWF title program with HBK, I believe that it would've bombed in the ratings. Not that HBK's 1996 title reign did Austin or Hogan numbers or anything, but HHH in 1996, while talented, wasn't anywhere near being at the level that he was in 1999-2001 and it would've been obvious that HBK was carrying him in their title matches. So it was actually a blessing in disguise for him to be "punished". And like Nature Otunga said, if they really wanted to bury his career RIP, he would've been Bob Holly or Barry Horowitz-level of getting jobbed out on TV, if at all. Maybe even sent to the USWA.

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Trips was hopelessly stuck i nthe midcard at that point. Winning the KotR that year would've elevated him for sure but he wouldn't have been in the World title picture.

 

James

 

I always feel like the "punishment" that HHH received is always overstated. He won the Intercontinental Championship later in the year. As we've seen in recent years, when WWE wants to bury someone, they typically don't give them TV time and title reigns. 

 

 

The curtain call was in May.  HHH won the I-C title in October.  For most of the five months in between, he lost almost every match he was in and didn't appear on either of the major PPVs in that time frame (KOTR or SummerSlam.)  So he lost out on two big paydays while doing constant job duty for mid-level guys like Marc Mero, Jake Roberts, and Savio Vega.  It wasn't as if nothing happened to him.

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Post curtain call:

* - lost to Mero at IYH

* - lost to Jake on RAW (KOTR Qualifying)

* - no contest with Aldo Montoya on RAW
* - beat Marty Garner on Superstars (is that the infamous Pedigree that used to be on the filesharing sites?)
* - beat Aldo Montoya in KOTR 96 dark match

* - lost to Ahmed Johnson on RAW (first televised appearance in a month)

* - lost to Mero on Superstars

* - beat a job guy on Superstars

* - lost to Sid on RAW (IC Title tourney)

* - lost to Savio on Superstars

* - beats a job guy on Superstars

* - lost to Jake (IYH dark match)

* - loses to Freddie Joe Floyd on Raw

* - loses to The Stalker on Raw

* - beats a job guy on Superstars

* - loses to Steve Austin at IYH

* - beats Mero for the IC title on Raw the next night.

 

He goes nearly six months without beating anyone of note on TV. He loses to The Stalker, and Freddie Joe Floyd.

 

That's a paddling.

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He was talented, had a good look, and kept working his ass off during the punishment, when WWF was starting to get their asses kicked and had a void of name talent because of people jumping ship.  So eventually the punishment ended and his climb up started again.

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Post curtain call:

* - lost to Mero at IYH

* - lost to Jake on RAW (KOTR Qualifying)

* - no contest with Aldo Montoya on RAW

* - beat Marty Garner on Superstars (is that the infamous Pedigree that used to be on the filesharing sites?)

* - beat Aldo Montoya in KOTR 96 dark match

* - lost to Ahmed Johnson on RAW (first televised appearance in a month)

* - lost to Mero on Superstars

* - beat a job guy on Superstars

* - lost to Sid on RAW (IC Title tourney)

* - lost to Savio on Superstars

* - beats a job guy on Superstars

* - lost to Jake (IYH dark match)

* - loses to Freddie Joe Floyd on Raw

* - loses to The Stalker on Raw

* - beats a job guy on Superstars

* - loses to Steve Austin at IYH

* - beats Mero for the IC title on Raw the next night.

 

He goes nearly six months without beating anyone of note on TV. He loses to The Stalker, and Freddie Joe Floyd.

 

That's a paddling.

 

I honestly didn't realize that HHH was jobbed to THAT extent, that IC Title win really came out of nowhere. But it's hardly the burial that every documentary about HHH has made it out to be. He recovered pretty quickly and wasn't any worse for wear because of it. 

 

Like Thomas said, the "punishment" ended up being a blessing in disguise because it kept him at the right card level to feud with guys like Rock and Foley, who really pushed him to step up in his game (in the ring and on the mic). What happens if he wins KOTR 96? Feuding with Michaels and bombing would probably have hurt his career more than 5 months of job duty.

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Post curtain call:

* - lost to Mero at IYH

* - lost to Jake on RAW (KOTR Qualifying)

* - no contest with Aldo Montoya on RAW

* - beat Marty Garner on Superstars (is that the infamous Pedigree that used to be on the filesharing sites?)

* - beat Aldo Montoya in KOTR 96 dark match

* - lost to Ahmed Johnson on RAW (first televised appearance in a month)

* - lost to Mero on Superstars

* - beat a job guy on Superstars

* - lost to Sid on RAW (IC Title tourney)

* - lost to Savio on Superstars

* - beats a job guy on Superstars

* - lost to Jake (IYH dark match)

* - loses to Freddie Joe Floyd on Raw

* - loses to The Stalker on Raw

* - beats a job guy on Superstars

* - loses to Steve Austin at IYH

* - beats Mero for the IC title on Raw the next night.

 

He goes nearly six months without beating anyone of note on TV. He loses to The Stalker, and Freddie Joe Floyd.

 

That's a paddling.

 

Wasn't that the reason they hired Smothers and company in the first place?  So they'd have someone besides Trips to do jobs?

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Smothers and Dirty White Boy were hired to be professional enhancement talent. In Jericho's first book he talked about how Cornette was bringing in his SMW guys for this purpose and wanted to bring him in to. Once Jericho realized he would just be doing jobs he declined.

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Alex Porteau, Bill Irwin, and Jim Neidhart were all brought in for the same reason.  Counting down to Who? joke in 5...4...3...2...

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They brought in about 5-6 guys all around the same time with some build up and even a few vignettes, gave them a couple squash matches on Superstars to build them up, and then they became JTTS guys themselves. You had Alex Porteau, The Goon, TL Hopper, Freddy Joe Floyd, Who, and Mantaur all showing up late '95/early '96 or so and who all served that purpose. I don't know why Alex "The Pub" Porteau sticks out to me much more than the rest, though. Maybe it was because he used The Steiner's music

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