GuerrillaMonsoon Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Oh ok. Was just going by the podcast he did with Michael Hayes, where they discuss finding a finish post-Million Dollar Dream and they show him how to do it on a job guy. Kayfabe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 It's weird. He just does it as a move. No big sell, not a finish, nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Bugg Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I'm watching old late 80's-early 90's WWF. How did those Coliseum tapings work? Because I see Wrestling Challenge and Prime Time Wrestling banners in the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 They taped Coliseum exclusives during marathon tapings for Superstars/Challenge/Prime Time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charro! Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I was wondering what the story was behind Arn & Tully, Ronnie Garvin & Dusty among others jumping ship from JCP/NWA to the WWF in the late 80's. Did their contracts expire, or was it a case that when their contracts were up for renewal they were offered more to go the WWF. Also did Vince try to hire Ric Flair at the same time so they could re-create the Four Horsemen in the WWF?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningBeard Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I always assumed it was more of a case of 'there's too much uncertainty here and I'm reading the writing on the wall so I'm jumping'. Flair didn't have that luxury as Turner would only buy JCP if Flair came with it IIRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Vince tried getting Flair in '88 and I think the hope was that he'd be able to work SummerSlam '88. Didn't happen, obviously. Arn and Tully left due to the wonky nature of the JCP contract bubble thing. I'll let someone with a better knowledge on that elaborate. Dusty left because he kept clashing (pardon the pun) with Turner execs and was clearly burnt out as booker. He was sorta forced out and the writing was on the wall for his exit by the end of '88. I have no idea about Ron Garvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Bugg Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 In the case of Tully and Arn, I remember watching the Horsemen DVD and him saying something about JJ Dillion's payoff after a major card (Great American Bash?) being more than twice of theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Bugg Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I know that had to suck for Flair, watching ALL of his Horsemen friends (Arn, Tully, Windham, Dillion) leave for the WWF virtually within a 6-9 month span, and with all of those changes with Turner and Jim Crockett Promotions, plus like the guy said above he felt a major load on his shoulders being the difference maker in the sale of what would become WCW to Turner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Wasn't Dusty fired after the "spike in the eye" incident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Dave said just today on the observer show vince had tried to sign flair since 83, but flair liked working for crockett and living in Charlotte. That changed obviouskly when WCW and Jim Herd took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningBeard Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I really can't picture him in the WWF in 89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool arrow Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Wasn't Dusty fired after the "spike in the eye" incident? He was fired as booker, but he stuck around long enough to work Starrcade, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneybrown Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 He walked out in January 89 and went to go work in a revamped Florida territory before Vince came calling. On a similar note, is the "Rick Steiner beats Ric Flair in five minutes at Starrcade 88" story true or not? That was supposedly Dusty's call, but if he had already been removed, how could he have booked it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spritenaut 32 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 He walked out in January 89 and went to go work in a revamped Florida territory before Vince came calling. On a similar note, is the "Rick Steiner beats Ric Flair in five minutes at Starrcade 88" story true or not? That was supposedly Dusty's call, but if he had already been removed, how could he have booked it? Story I heard (from someone involved with the company at the time) was that Dusty did indeed propose that Flair lose the world title to Steiner in 5 min. Flair thought that it was another effort to screw with him - he generally thought Dusty had tried to make him look like a weak champion - and went over Dusty's head to the Turner execs.and got him removed as booker. Supposedly, Fliar threatened to leave if he had to job to Steiner. There were other people lobbying for Dusty to be removed. He worked Starrcade because he he wasn't fired until after Starrcade. He was fired from the company because of the spike in the eye incident (Turner execs had just banned bloodletting on-screen), but it took the execs a while to decide the punishment. It might have worked. People forget how massively over Steiner was at the time. The pop when he won the tv title in '88 was what you would expect for a world title win. Vince wishes he could still get those reactions. On the other hand, Steiner played a pretty goofy character. I've always thought the more old-school fans would have crapped on the win. Edit: Corrected the typo pointed out below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool arrow Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 He walked out in January 89 and went to go work in a revamped Florida territory before Vince came calling. On a similar note, is the "Rick Steiner beats Ric Flair in five minutes at Starrcade 88" story true or not? That was supposedly Dusty's call, but if he had already been removed, how could he have booked it? Story I heard (from someone involved with the company at the time) was that Dusty did indeed propose that Flair lose the world title to Flair in 5 min. Flair thought that it was another effort to screw with him - he generally thought Dusty had tried to make him look like a weak champion - and went over Dusty's head to the Turner execs.and got him removed as booker. Supposedly, Fliar threatened to leave if he had to job to Steiner. There were other people lobbying for Dusty to be removed. Dave? Dave Meltzer? Is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MushroomJones Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 IIRC from the Observers around that time, the Brother Love interview segment on SummerSlam 88 was slated for Flair's debut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spritenaut 32 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Dave? Dave Meltzer? Is that you? Nope, I probably woulda throttled Bryan during a radio show by now if I was Dave. I grew up on Mid-Altantic/JCP and JCP/WCW is the only promotion I've ever attended frequently. I was in college at the time and got to attend tv tapings and a few of the early PPV/supershow events through 93 when I got promoted at work and left the region. Basically, I knew someone who knew someone who worked for the company and got to meet a few backstage people and a couple wrestlers that way. Nothing special. I'm just a fan. I have no idea about Ron Garvin. Probably a combination of money and dislike for Dusty. Ron Garvin claimed in a shoot that he and Dusty didn't get along and Dusty intended to make him look weak and job jim out as much as possible. Ron was another one of those guys upset about their payments from JCP. What Arn and Tully claimed on the Horsement dvd is that their payment for GAB was only $1,500 apiece. JJ probably did get more. Road Warriors and Ellering were getting an awful lot more than most of the full-timers, even though they weren't exclusive to the territory. No idea what Garvin received from the AWA after he left, but it doesn't seem likely that they were able to pay him more than Crockett. I've heard people speculate he made less in the AWA, which might be why he left after a few months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneybrown Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Garvin's heel turn was to lead to several handicap matches where Rhodes would have beat him and Al Perez 2-on-1 which pretty much told Garvin how big his push was going to be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Dave? Dave Meltzer? Is that you? Nope, I probably woulda throttled Bryan during a radio show by now if I was Dave. I grew up on Mid-Altantic/JCP and JCP/WCW is the only promotion I've ever attended frequently. I was in college at the time and got to attend tv tapings and a few of the early PPV/supershow events through 93 when I got promoted at work and left the region. Basically, I knew someone who knew someone who worked for the company and got to meet a few backstage people and a couple wrestlers that way. Nothing special. I'm just a fan. I have no idea about Ron Garvin. Probably a combination of money and dislike for Dusty. Ron Garvin claimed in a shoot that he and Dusty didn't get along and Dusty intended to make him look weak and job jim out as much as possible. Ron was another one of those guys upset about their payments from JCP. What Arn and Tully claimed on the Horsement dvd is that their payment for GAB was only $1,500 apiece. JJ probably did get more. Road Warriors and Ellering were getting an awful lot more than most of the full-timers, even though they weren't exclusive to the territory. No idea what Garvin received from the AWA after he left, but it doesn't seem likely that they were able to pay him more than Crockett. I've heard people speculate he made less in the AWA, which might be why he left after a few months. I read an interview with Garvin where he said that after he turned on Dusty, Dusty proposed an idea where he (Dusty) would go over Garvin and beat up Al Perez and Gary Hart in the process. Garvin thought, "I'm a guy who stood toe to toe with all 4 Horsemen and just knocked this guy out and now he's beating me, my teammate and my manager at the same time? I'm outta here." He put in his notice shortly thereafter and went to the AWA/Puerto Rico (can't remember which he did first) before going to WWF. Dusty concocted some ludicrous story about how he met Garvin in a bar, beat him up and ran him out of the NWA to explain why Garvin suddenly wasn't on tv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool arrow Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Garvin had one match in PR (against Sheiky Baby) and then went to the AWA. And an interesting thing about the Garvin deal is that the Apter mags actually reported what really happened, which was the first time since I'd been reading them that they "broke kayfabe." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafkonia Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Is Dusty the most beloved bad booker of all time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool arrow Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 I wouldn't necessarily call Dusty a bad booker, certainly not on the level of Russo or Nash. That said, by '88 the fans were tired of him pushing himself, and of course the Dusty finish was just absurdly overused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Like most bookers, he had a few highly successful ideas that he could never add to, and re-ran them continuously until they had no value left at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 And he's had a hand in NXT's usually good booking, so there's that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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