AEW Dynamite - 4/19/2023

[Casey]

There was a part that was censored, but their entrance wasn’t cut from TV or anything.

[John E. Dynamite]

It was shown in full on the international feed. I'm assuming the phase "Chris Jericho's penis" got cut from the Turner broadcast?

[Tarheel Moneghetti]

7 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

This show was terrible, to be honest.

It’s really hard watching JB and Sammy bomb in this role. Cringe-worthy. Especially when Starks, Jay White, Hobbs and other young talents are right there and would be 100x more effective in these spots.

To each their own, but I’d much rather see Sammy, JB, and Darby in these spots than Hobbs, Starks, whoever.

I’ll agree with you on White.  Push him to the top.

[chriskbrown50]

Jay White - Can we do a best of 7 with he and Omega say starting next week? Or he and Danielson ? Claudio - Jay White? 

 

[Infinit]

I has so much fun last night!!

Didn't see much of the ROH stuff unfortunately, waiting in lines suck lol

Opening was a little long and a little to WWEish, although I was pleasantly surprised we got another main event.

Brittsburgh was on fire tonight. Great tag match.

 

I want to see the BCC/Elite brawl on TV...was a little difficult to keep up with it all live but I really liked Takeshita coming out for the save. Although I wonder how Page would fit into things at the moment.

It was great getting Arn paired with Wardlow. Mike started off in Pittsburgh and I know he must have been thrilled to be a champion again here. I hope that Hobbs doesn't get lost in the shuffle and he remains featured and dangerous.

LOVED Jay White vs Komander. And love that AEW can give us awesome random matches like this. Popped huge for Starks making the save.

I think the Jericho/Cole match was really good. I liked how they bled Brit vs Outcasts to it...but where were the babyfaces from the back to help Brit and Cole? It's something that TK has been pretty good with this in the past. Where was Riho and her pipe? Don't the Bucks like Adam Cole anymore?

6 man was a great change of pace. Max's rap was dope. Crazy that Billy is 59.

Main event had a some crazy spots. Really fun to watch live. Although I feel that MJF has to screw Darby next week and we get a 4 way at the PPV.

This was my nephew's first pro wres show and he had a blast. Crowd was hot and most of the lower bowl was sold by bell time. Already counting down the days to my next AEW shoe....Forbidden Door!

 

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

4 hours ago, John E. Dynamite said:

Hangman, MJF, Swerve, Darby, Jay White, Hobbes, Starks, Takeshita. Those are guys who have shown the degree of skills in terms of workrate/promo/aura (at least two out of the three) to be potential (or already proven) main eventers in AEW who are 33 years old or younger. That's your true Eight Pillars, work on them. Maybe an Acclaimed guy on the right singles run. Hell, Ethan Page is 33 and I think he has more upside than either Sammy or Jack, who are very very clearly in the Tier 2 catergory with Wheeler Yuta, Daniel Garcia, Top Flight and Adam Cole as 33-or-youngers who can work matches at that level but simply lack the presence that creates credible main event magic. Which is fine. They tried, they threw em out there to sink or swim and they just aren't that buoyant.

I agree with some of your list, but not in its entirety, especially when you’re grouping Adam Cole who’s been in a PPV main event for this company with Top Flight (who while both quite skilled in ring are years away from headlining anything) and Wheeler the human charisma vacuum Yuta. 

As for your pillars I only really take issue with Hobbs and Starks. Swerve could be huge if pushed properly, Takeshita is definitely can’t miss, Darby, Max, and Hangman are already top tier, and I don’t think anyone can deny Jay White. Hobbs doesn’t scream Star to me just like Wardlow doesn’t. They both feel interchangeable minus one being stuck with QT. Starks I’ve already outlined my issues with. I’d take Sammy in a top spot over both of them. Or just cut it down to four like Khan wants with the four being Hangman, Jay White, Darby, and I guess Max even if I think his promos suck more often than not. I’d personally want to replace Max with Swerve as Swerve is better in ring, and his promos bring something different than just rich entitled Jewish kid.

I think they need to find a way to get the belt on Darby sooner rather than later, and by Full Gear let the AEW fan base “breathe with the Switchblade”, and crown the best heel in the company World Champion. 

[JLowe]

7 hours ago, Log said:

I guess the main thing I'd like AEW to get back to is telling me stories through the action, not talking.

Succinct and spot on.

[JLowe]

6 hours ago, Log said:

Like others have said, I did think it was a great show in-ring last night. Yeah, the pillars promos and the Shawn Michaels' School of Acting Drama Hour overshadowed it a bit, but it was solid.

That was my favorite Kommander match I've seen so far. I think it helped that he had more of a base in Jay White to work with. Flyer vs flyer matches can have some awesome spots, but are usually a little lacking in flow. I think that's why Vikingo/Kenny worked better than the other AEW/ROH Vikingo matches so far, IMO. I'd love to see Claudio get in there with some of these guys. He always made flyers look good in Chikara.

After that Komander promo with Lexy (which my half ass Spanish only half understood) my immediate thought was “why not just go for it and have Komander get an ROH title shot and hell, maybe even win the thing”

[Infinit]

I thought the same thing!

 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

Jungle Boy wasn't ready for this spot, either in terms of what he brings to it, or the story he's had so far.

Either the Christian program should have restarted with Cage returning and costing JB the match, or you needed a TNT title run prior to this. Should have been the one to dethrone Joe. Otherwise, just doesn't have the kayfabe resume to be out there with the rest of them. 

Disappointed they didn't go with the Ironman Series throwback here. 

In a kayfabe sense how does a 3 man tournament get pitched as the best possible solution here? 

[A_K]

830k. Geez. Like a really bad fan-fiction. This guy putting Jack Perry & Guevara in as anything other than enhancement talents on a national television network .. Jesus.

Edited April 20, 2023 by A_K

[A_K]

8 hours ago, chriskbrown50 said:

AEW to date has shown a decent long-term booking plan. 

They've booked away 40% of their overall audience peak-to-trough & approaching 50% of their demo. It is absolutely catastrophic booking. TBS can give them all the television time they want: the numbers don't lie, and if they continue on this trajectory (which they will, without fundamental changes in management personnel), then it'll be whoever is building the network around this product & allowing these decisions to continue whose head goes on to the pike next (a la Kellner pulling WCW when he came in).

Edited April 20, 2023 by A_K

[Bryan]

4 hours ago, Infinit said:

LOVED Jay White vs Komander. And love that AEW can give us awesome random matches like this. Popped huge for Starks making the save.

I think the Jericho/Cole match was really good. I liked how they bled Brit vs Outcasts to it...but where were the babyfaces from the back to help Brit and Cole? It's something that TK has been pretty good with this in the past. Where was Riho and her pipe? Don't the Bucks like Adam Cole anymore?

 

 

Adam Cole lead a beat down of the Young Bucks the last time they were on tv together, so them not coming to help makes sense from a storyline continuity perspective.

 

[Bryan]

1 hour ago, A_K said:

They've booked away 40% of their overall audience peak-to-trough & approaching 50% of their demo. It is absolutely catastrophic booking. TBS can give them all the television time they want: the numbers don't lie, and if they continue on this trajectory (which they will, without fundamental changes in management personnel), then it'll be whoever is building the network around this product & allowing these decisions to continue whose head goes on to the pike next (a la Kellner pulling WCW when he came in).

Yep, that’s one of many reasons they need CM Punk back. You have to have actual stars to bring in enough people to make new stars.

You can’t just put people you want to be stars in main event positions and have them magically turn into stars.

[HarryArchieGus]

This was a great week to watch on tape delay. Not that I skipped passed anything. I was making breakfast during the opening segment and was totally fine with it's shortcomings. Amused even. I'm with the small crowd happy to see the young Pillars get the opportunity. I'm okay with young up-n-coming wrestlers failing from time to time. This is a company that tends to learn from its mistakes which makes it easier to forgive the Sins of the bookerman. All that said, certainly this was worthy of some harsh criticism, but the outrage is a bit much, no? The opening match of Ruby/Toni v Hayter/Britt was a bit of a mixed bag. The heels were awesome, Hayter looked good for a little while. The layout seemed a bit strange. Also, ugh, I hate seeing them continue to ruin the heel use of weaponry. Wasn't it enough that Baker kicked out of Toni's finish? How on earth was the foreign object remotely necessary? Goddamn, I hope Hayter's alright. Was the arm the issue? She seemed a bit dazed prior when Toni pulled her to the floor? Oh man, I LOVE Wardy joining forces with the Enforcer. Arn is still the best mic man in the business! Please let this be, Like, forever-ever! Loved the Elite-BCC segment! Bryan is clearly the best wrestler, but he's also the best sports entertainer! I'm with everybody that says this is the best BCC yet! Don Callis is also an incredible sports entertainer. And Takeshita's run in was absolutely magnificent! Really dug what I saw of Wardy and Hobbs. Arn's DDT was fucking magic! Was I hearing some hometown boobirds in the Wardlow symphony mix? This match was overbooked to be sure, but it wasn't not fun. Jay White truly was the highlight of this show. So glad he's out of New Japan and the repetitious Gedo horseshit. He's right at home in AEW, and fresh! I like Robinson as his stooge. Good role for Juicey. Komander continues to impress. Jay's auteur-like direction in this bout was a sight to behold and suggests a very promising future for the Switchblade. So happy to hear of Komander's signing. They missed the direct shot this week, but I love Komander's salute after the big high spot. The FTR segment was a bit strange. The way it was worded from Renee, it sounded like the attack happened any time within the last 8 hours. I like the end result of this segment being Jarrett/Letha/FTR teaming, and Mark Briscoe continues to slay every single second he's on camera, but this was some goofy shit to be sure. I was fixing my lunch during the Jericho-Cole segment, but I really liked the back and forth from my sideglance. Britt's acting ('Austin!) was a bit challenging to accept, and Saraya's attack was uhhh weak, but the hug was nice. And the result. Cole's been properly freshened up as a baby. Also, I like seeing the JAS working with all the heels. This did not read as the Outcasts have joined the JAS to me. I missed most of Acclaimed/Daddy Ass-JAS, but liked what I saw. Pittsburgh was hotter for Daddy Ass getting tagged into the match then most anything on the show. Sammy-Jungle Boy was mostly fun. And brutal with the bumps. I liked the idea of this finish, but what the fuck was Bryce doing continuing the count at 8!?! That was worse than any microphone fumblings in the opening segment. Maybe Bryce isn't the responsible party for that call. Regardless, that was truly fucking rotten. It feels strange to say, not generally a fan of 3+ways but I kinda sorta hope the DON main event finds its way back to being a 4 way. But make it an elimination rules please! From what I understand this show was against some stiff competition with the NBA Playoffs. I also understand it was live at 5 in the afternoon on the West Coast. Both seem clearly to have factored into the decision to go angle heavy. I assume the thinking was to have lots of stuff to be seen later on YouChoob. Whatever the case, I didn't find it particularly challenging to get passed the errors and enjoy this kinda fun show. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

3 hours ago, A_K said:

They've booked away 40% of their overall audience peak-to-trough & approaching 50% of their demo. It is absolutely catastrophic booking. TBS can give them all the television time they want: the numbers don't lie, and if they continue on this trajectory (which they will, without fundamental changes in management personnel), then it'll be whoever is building the network around this product & allowing these decisions to continue whose head goes on to the pike next (a la Kellner pulling WCW when he came in).

We must have different meanings for absolutely catastrophic because I don't think M*A*S*H and Cheers were on as long as the doomsaying around the AEW ratings has been going on.

Second, it's tough to compare WCW in anyway to AEW in that:

A. That shit happened twenty two years ago. If you were born the day after WCW went down, you either could have your bachelor's degree or about to graduate with a bachelor's degree very soon. You're also old enough to drink legally. I imagine the TV landscape has changed in 22 years, especially given that no one thought wrestling would net anything as far as major rights fees.

B. If you were halfway able to compare it to WCW, it doesn't jive with what you're saying. If something is going bad on TV, they don't give you ANOTHER show. If a showrunner is screwing up, usually they cancel that show with a quickness or replace him/her with the quickness. Also, you act like it's just one rogue motherfucker at the network with AEW tatted on his forehead giving AEW more exposure. First of all, I doubt you could name that person. Also, what gives you the sense that it's just one person? It could be multiple people because last time I checked, TBS/TNT ain't a mom and pop independent channel. We've already seen the havoc that has been reeked by WBD. If that person or persons hasn't been canned by now, they would have to work very hard to get fired.

Unless you heard something through the grapevine or heard rumblings about the numbers, I wouldn't be as invested in the correlation between the rating trends and the booking. You know when we will know something? It's when that TV contract comes due, and they have to negotiate. That's when you will have your hard evidence.

[Elsalvajeloco]

13 minutes ago, L_W_P said:

Being hooked into essentially being Jericho's fall guy has taken a huge chunk of his development away.
 

I don't know if I would be as harsh on Guevara given that Jay got put into a sink or swim position that most people thought he would sink in. Before Switchblade, no one was checking for Jay White. Then, he had a mediocre match with Tanahashi at the Tokyo Dome in his re-debut. It took awhile for him to get going. Fortunately, he's at the level where you can say he is a star. 

I think Guevara is a perfect fit for a stable as the third from the top guy in terms of hierarchy. I don't think he should be someone you build around, but he's totally serviceable. I am saying that as someone who loves Jay White and not that big a fan of Guevara.

[EVA]

23 minutes ago, L_W_P said:

Being hooked into essentially being Jericho's fall guy has taken a huge chunk of his development away.

When he broke away from the Inner Circle and became the fighting TNT Champ that should have been the start of him builing both himself, and the title, as a must see attraction.

I think what you might be forgetting here is that the TNT title was in a VERY strong place after Darby and Miro’s reigns. It already was a must-see attraction…until Sammy tanked it!

It definitely SHOULD have been the start of building Sammy up as a top guy. That was clearly the intention. But you gotta deliver the goods, and Sammy didn’t. His first reign was a total snooze, and the second time around he was so bad that he turned himself heel despite feuding with the most hated personality in AEW.

Putting him back with Jericho was a mercy, quite frankly. Being Jericho’s lieutenant is the only role he’s every succeeded in.

Edited April 21, 2023 by EVA

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, EVA said:

I think what you might be forgetting here is that the TNT title was in a VERY strong place after Darby and Miro’s reigns. It already was a must-see attraction…until Sammy tanked it!

It definitely SHOULD have been the start of building Sammy up as a top guy. That was clearly the intention. But you gotta deliver the goods, and Sammy didn’t. His first reign was a total snooze, and the second time around he was so bad that he turned himself heel despite feuding with the most hated personality in AEW.

Putting him back with Jericho was a mercy, quite frankly. Being Jericho’s lieutenant is the only role he’s every succeeded in.

I think you're right largely, but here's where I place some of the blame on TK. A guy like Sammy who is a spot machine is going to look great in the chase. Even you don't care for Tony's booking or have no faith in it, the chase is the easiest thing to book if you have the right person. Now after he wins the title, what next? Sammy got the title when I don't think Tony fully understood what he wanted out of it. Hell, OC is basically doing what the person carrying the TNT title should be doing.

It's basically the late era TV title after Booker T won it and then became way too over for it. That was the end of the WCW Television title. It can no longer elevate you. You're just another guy carrying around a belt. Unless you're shooting to give a guy the 2023 version of the J*Crown and AEW gets the rights to like seven other titles that no one wants or forgot they even created, I don't know what the TNT title does for any person.

[zendragon]

On 4/19/2023 at 7:28 PM, Dog said:

Say what you will about the TNT bouncing around, but it's neat that with Joe, Wardlow, Hobbs, and now Luchasaurus that it's essentially become the Hoss Title.

I was gonna say glad this is still the Beefweight title and The Right Hand of Destruction is a nice addition, and it’s a nice contrast to what’s going on with Orange Cassidy having more work rate style matches with a variety of opponents 

King Switch v Kommander was fun but pretty much everything else came off as flat 

BUT AT LEAST WE GOT THE RETURN OF ARMED ANDERSON!!!

[Steventon]

Pushing JB and Sammy to the top and seeing how they do is a good idea and investing in the future, doing them at the same time and with Darby who's more-or-less in the same boat is the bad call. If this was JB having a big main event push on his own vs an established star, I imagine he'd fare better, but the perception is we now have a main event picture with not one but THREE guys who are not ready. That is a bad impression to make. Also, this would probably play better if this was leading to a B-level defence for Max on TV, but having this as a lead program heading into PPV feels like a step too far up for these guys to make. Agree with the guy who said JB really should have had a TNT run before this.

The Cole - Jericho feud has instantly because an auto-snooze program for me, at least I can avoid both at the same time. I just wonder if the Acclaimed's angle with JAS will somehow intertwine.

The brawl of the BCC vs Elite guys was pretty blah in execution, but I really liked the idea at least. Kenny being so serious after letting 'Carry On My Way Wayward Son' play out the goofy verse was a tonal shift. But I am here for Danielson-lead BCC thugs and Hangman returning to even the score (maybe Takeshita or Matt gets taken out?) should be a fun moment.

I have been a Jay White sceptic for years, largely because the New Japan 40 minute main event faux epic with BC interference trope is such an antithesis to what I enjoy, but early signs of AEW Switchblade are promising. Is this leading to BC Gold vs Starks/Spears or will Spears turn and join BC? 

 

 

[A_K]

7 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

We must have different meanings for absolutely catastrophic because I don't think M*A*S*H and Cheers were on as long as the doomsaying around the AEW ratings has been going on.

Second, it's tough to compare WCW in anyway to AEW in that:

A. That shit happened twenty two years ago. If you were born the day after WCW went down, you either could have your bachelor's degree or about to graduate with a bachelor's degree very soon. You're also old enough to drink legally. I imagine the TV landscape has changed in 22 years, especially given that no one thought wrestling would net anything as far as major rights fees.

B. If you were halfway able to compare it to WCW, it doesn't jive with what you're saying. If something is going bad on TV, they don't give you ANOTHER show. If a showrunner is screwing up, usually they cancel that show with a quickness or replace him/her with the quickness. Also, you act like it's just one rogue motherfucker at the network with AEW tatted on his forehead giving AEW more exposure. First of all, I doubt you could name that person. Also, what gives you the sense that it's just one person? It could be multiple people because last time I checked, TBS/TNT ain't a mom and pop independent channel. We've already seen the havoc that has been reeked by WBD. If that person or persons hasn't been canned by now, they would have to work very hard to get fired.

Unless you heard something through the grapevine or heard rumblings about the numbers, I wouldn't be as invested in the correlation between the rating trends and the booking. You know when we will know something? It's when that TV contract comes due, and they have to negotiate. That's when you will have your hard evidence.

50% of this weeks show was in the 700ks for audience figures. The overall viewing figure is being held up by the lead-in number, of whom 100k+ tune out within 15 minutes. RAW, televising an equivalent product, is running 1.9 million through their second hour.  If that's not catastrophic given the divergence on proximities 18 months ago, how far down this rabbit hole do they need to go before internally they make changes?

Even some of the ultra-niche watchers on this board have posted recently that they're checking out. They are in quick-sand. Network employees make bad decisions all the time that then need to be rectified down the track: that's nothing new. While ratings held up in the short term when Thunder debuted, it was the harbinger to quality decline & WCW falling out of track within a few months. New programming does not inherently signal an upturn in mid-to-long term fortunes.

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by A_K

[Matt D]

1 hour ago, A_K said:

50% of this weeks show was in the 700ks for audience figures. The overall viewing figure is being held up by the lead-in number, of whom 100k+ tune out within 15 minutes. RAW, televising an equivalent product, is running 1.9 million through their second hour.  If that's not catastrophic given the divergence on proximities 18 months ago, how far down this rabbit hole do they need to go before internally they make changes?

Even some of the ultra-niche watchers on this board have posted recently that they're checking out. They are in quick-sand. Network employees make bad decisions all the time that then need to be rectified down the track: that's nothing new. While ratings held up in the short term when Thunder debuted, it was the harbinger to quality decline & WCW falling out of track within a few months. New programming does not inherently signal an upturn in mid-to-long term fortunes.

 

To the finances thread with you, grumpy dude who gets your internet kicks on the hopes of misery. You can talk about AEW getting 30-50 million for the new show over there while you’re at it. And how this show was live on the west coast and people thought the rating held up surprisingly well. 

We’ll be over here talking about how amusing All Access season two will be when Tay complains about them giving this big angle to the Outcasts instead of her even though she’s in the JAS and Sammy is wrestling for the title.

 

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

48 minutes ago, Matt D said:

To the finances thread with you, grumpy dude who gets your internet kicks on the hopes of misery. You can talk about AEW getting 30-50 million for the new show over there while you’re at it. And how this show was live on the west coast and people thought the rating held up surprisingly well. 

We’ll be over here talking about how amusing All Access season two will be when Tay complains about them giving this big angle to the Outcasts instead of her even though she’s in the JAS and Sammy is wrestling for the title.

 

I think you left out Tay crying that they could replace Adam Cole and Britt with her and Sammy in the same angle too. Since she’s seemingly hell bent on the idea she deserves all the tv time. 

Which I have to say the last episode of All Access was the most I’ve liked Sammy just for how he broke down the business to her. That usually only one half of a couple will get a push at a time (even in WWE unless it’s Seth and Becky or Cole and Britt in AEW). Plus I think Sammy does have more to offer than Tay when you look at how many more quarter hours require mens segments. 

[A_K]

1 hour ago, Matt D said:

To the finances thread with you, grumpy dude who gets your internet kicks on the hopes of misery. You can talk about AEW getting 30-50 million for the new show over there while you’re at it. And how this show was live on the west coast and people thought the rating held up surprisingly well. 

We’ll be over here talking about how amusing All Access season two will be when Tay complains about them giving this big angle to the Outcasts instead of her even though she’s in the JAS and Sammy is wrestling for the title.

 

I'm glad you're enjoying it buddy - more power to you (& anyone else who thinks they're putting on high quality television)! But if someone wants to post that they've demonstrated "a decent long-term booking plan" then yeah, I'm gonna have to let the facts get in the way. Now, back to the pro-wrestling!

Edited April 21, 2023 by A_K