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Elimination Chamber XIII - 2/18/2023


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23 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

Roman's probably more likely to be the face challenger to Cody at Summerslam than Sami Zayn.

As for Cody fantasybooking. Feels like there's some mileage to not immediately turning Cody, but maybe having Kevin Owens challenge Cody first. Then if Owens gets cheered over Cody, have Cody get annoyed at the fans who didn't back him. Kinda feels like Sami would need to be on a side mission to be feuding with Cody for 4 months before they wrestle.

Now, if we wanna overbook, a multiman match involving Sami/Cody/Roman post-WM where Sami pins Roman, but it takes so much out of him that he's easypickings for Cody, who just doesn't understand the people unhappy with his victory.

The only way Cody is turning heel is if the fans just reject him, which is totally possible but if they haven't rejected him in favor of Sami then I don't see that happening for now. And Roman,  I doubt he would volunteer to be a Babyface again unless it a post Survivor Series 95 Diesel type tweener.

Sami during the press conference basically told us that they missed out by not having him go over on Saturday. Unless he takes the title off Roman, a title win won't be nearly as effective 

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Just watched this and it felt like a letdown after the Rumble.

The ending to the Rumble was some once-a-decade level heat and execution, and Elimination Chamber was... Just like any other WWE show. Roman/Sami was the same match Roman has been having for 2.5 years, main event ref bumps, babyface backup coming not coming out until after the heel gets the win instead of during the shameless cheating... I'm not 100% sure Sami should've won, but if this is supposed to be an "emmy" angle, you gotta do better than that.

Brock getting DQ'ed was even worse face booking, but the stakes were lower, so it seems to have been mostly forgotten.

Both chamber matches were alright. The women's was simple but effective. The men had some good spots and everyone taking their turns on Theory was fun. Finish was flat, but I'm always down to watch Logan Paul. If WWE is smart, Montez Ford will beat Theory in under 2 minutes at Mania.

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I was wanting Sami Zayn to win the Undisputed WWE Universal Championship while expecting Roman Reigns to retain. Sticking to safety. I was left deflated at the finish. Be interesting to see with time whether it was the right or wrong call. It was the right call that Drew McIntyre at Clash at the Castle didn't end this record breaking run. I'm thinking Sami Zayn should have won here in his hometown even though the biggest stage of all is WrestleMania where I'm still looking forward to Roman Reigns vs. Cody Rhodes. I'm wondering though if WWE will try and get Roman Reigns to 1,000 days and end the WWE Universal Championship reign where it began at WWE SummerSlam 2020. Shame the long reign isn't with the belt that means the most, the WWE Championship with all that history and lineage.

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How is anyone at this point still arguing against Roman Reigns being anything but an absolutely elite performer? Like what Phil Schneider wrote for The Ringer -- he has some of the best timing in wrestling history. He's so good at knowing when to cut off the heel, how to build momentum, when to trash talk, etc. And man his "YES! YES! NO! NO! NO!" kickouts are a work of art. 

I loved that dude from the first time The Shield wrecked Ryback and made him their chew-toy. I never understood the "ROMAN SUCKS HE IS GETTING PUSHED DOWN OUR THROATZ" stuff because he was the definition of getting over organically when he was in The Shield. People were bugging for him that one year in the Rumble when he was tossing dudes. Roman started out as really friggin' good and is incredible. 

Sami and Jey deserve every last second of credit they have been getting for this masterpiece. But man Roman is just the ultimate villain with his bullying and gaslighting and dickishness. Phil wrote this in the article but I thought it was so true - Roman telling another man's wife "I wanted to provide for your family" while beating up her husband right in front of her eyes is so fucking evil. 

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13 minutes ago, Greggulator said:

 

I loved that dude from the first time The Shield wrecked Ryback and made him their chew-toy. I never understood the "ROMAN SUCKS HE IS GETTING PUSHED DOWN OUR THROATZ" stuff because he was the definition of getting over organically when he was in The Shield. People were bugging for him that one year in the Rumble when he was tossing dudes. Roman started out as really friggin' good and is incredible. 

 

I’m 100% with you on how great our Tribal Chief is.

 I can only speak for the brief times I bopped back in and out of the WWE. I feel a the fan pushback and even disrespect towards him was often misplaced anger towards bad booking. When I was back into the E, it seemed like he was the only challenger for a dominant (and gimmicky) uninterested Brock. He would lose and then win number 1 contender matches to lose again. You can book that in a captivating way over overcoming a monster, but it was such a Brock is A level, Roman is B level, and everyone else is C level that the B level and even the A level received the fans’ distain. If you replaced him with anyone on the roster and booked it the same way, I assume they would have been booed as well. 

Granted, take this ramble with a grain of salt, as I was only paying attention to the E for a specific time period and you can likely point to more moments that fans were underrating our great Tribal Chief. 

 

 

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Man, I really think this is the best match of my lifetime. I know my tastes differ from many other people. And the “what comes next” part does not phase me in the least because we do not know what comes next. 

The only other story that had anything close to the emotional impact for me was Kofimania. But the difference was that whole Kofimania came out of nowhere and came quick and gave us the happy ending. And the other similar stories - YES! Movement and Punk winning in Chicago - were too tied up in the meta “backstage politics” stuff for my liking.

I absolutely love that this did NOT give us the happy ending. I have seen the happy ending. Maybe I have never seen a happy ending to the degree that crowd would have given us, but Roman’s win and the disappointment that came with it is something that I have never felt as a wrestling fan. You don’t get happy endings to really land hard without having a major loss along the way.

Maybe Sami ends up getting the happy ending. But there is something really poetic about being the guy who saw his chance at ultimate victory slip through his fingers and now has to constantly chase that pursuit for the rest of his career, along with the quest to keep doing what is right despite his doubt and guilt and failures along the way. 

I do not know if we will ever get a match to generate emotions like that ever again. What a fucking incredible match.

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40 minutes ago, Octopus said:

I’m 100% with you on how great our Tribal Chief is.

 I can only speak for the brief times I bopped back in and out of the WWE. I feel a the fan pushback and even disrespect towards him was often misplaced anger towards bad booking. When I was back into the E, it seemed like he was the only challenger for a dominant (and gimmicky) uninterested Brock. He would lose and then win number 1 contender matches to lose again. You can book that in a captivating way over overcoming a monster, but it was such a Brock is A level, Roman is B level, and everyone else is C level that the B level and even the A level received the fans’ distain. If you replaced him with anyone on the roster and booked it the same way, I assume they would have been booed as well. 

Granted, take this ramble with a grain of salt, as I was only paying attention to the E for a specific time period and you can likely point to more moments that fans were underrating our great Tribal Chief. 

 

 

People were hating on the push he was going to get while he was injured and not even getting it yet. Some of his return was silly with the writing for him but I think the “Roman Sucks” thing he was getting while he was on the shelf was so phony from a segment of the audience that wants to shit on everything even if it’s stuff they liked six months earlier. 

Thank god the WWE audience changed. I am not sure how (maybe the cool kids moved to AEW) but people are reacting to what they see now. Dom Guerrero is getting actual heel heat and is being received well for being such a cowardly slimeball. 

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Yes, shockingly, when they stop trying to force people to cheer for the nepo baby doing Lucha spots at 1/5th speed and instead let people delight in seeing an obnoxious nepo baby be humiliated and get his ass kicked, the reactions got a lot better.

Edited by EVA
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Yeah I think the secret is just making the guys crowds aren't digging heels, and the ones they are faces.

Roman's heel character work is great, but his match formula is a bit tiresome. The Sami match was the exact same as the Logan Paul match, which wasn't any different than his matches with KO 2 years ago. I think my favorite Roman match from his title run was the LMS with Brock, because both of their gravitational match formulas were so strong they both warped into doing something a little different.

I think what was really missing from the Sami match was a complete Jey turn. It would've been predictable, but with enough teasing, it could've been a sufficient gut punch that doesn't derail plans and keeps the story hot. KO/Sami get their moment by taking the belts off the Usos in the Night 1 main, then you can go any number of directions with Roman/Cody in Night 2, but everyone is mostly satisfied in that scenario.

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43 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Contrarian POV: have never really liked any member of the Shield, in any incarnation. 

Does that include, as The Shield? Because I mean we all like what we like, but to me Shield/Wyatts and Shield/Rhodes’s are pretty ubiquitously awesome. This is opposed to the singles stuff from any of the three, of which I can poke holes in all at some point.

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2 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

Does that include, as The Shield? Because I mean we all like what we like, but to me Shield/Wyatts and Shield/Rhodes’s are pretty ubiquitously awesome. This is opposed to the singles stuff from any of the three, of which I can poke holes in all at some point.

I would say that the first Shield/Wyatts match was my all-time favorite match until Sami/Roman. It's been a minute since I watched The Rhodes Family versus The Shield (it was Roman/Rollins) but I remember raving about that at the time. I actually liked Cody in this role a lot (and as "Dashing" Cody Rhodes) and if I am remembering his pre-match promo correctly it was probably the template for who he is now. 

I am going to write those matches up if I have time.

Edited by Greggulator
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I also loved when The Rhodes Brothers beat The Shield on Raw for the titles. People shat on that at the time because The Big Show did the YES! chant after he ran in to save the day after dealing with The Authority bullying him around for a while and apparently that was proof of Daniel Bryan being buried or something stupid. The match itself was incredible and ended with a really great moment. 

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6 hours ago, Greggulator said:

Man, I really think this is the best match of my lifetime. I know my tastes differ from many other people. And the “what comes next” part does not phase me in the least because we do not know what comes next. 

The only other story that had anything close to the emotional impact for me was Kofimania. But the difference was that whole Kofimania came out of nowhere and came quick and gave us the happy ending. And the other similar stories - YES! Movement and Punk winning in Chicago - were too tied up in the meta “backstage politics” stuff for my liking.

I absolutely love that this did NOT give us the happy ending. I have seen the happy ending. Maybe I have never seen a happy ending to the degree that crowd would have given us, but Roman’s win and the disappointment that came with it is something that I have never felt as a wrestling fan. You don’t get happy endings to really land hard without having a major loss along the way.

Maybe Sami ends up getting the happy ending. But there is something really poetic about being the guy who saw his chance at ultimate victory slip through his fingers and now has to constantly chase that pursuit for the rest of his career, along with the quest to keep doing what is right despite his doubt and guilt and failures along the way. 

I do not know if we will ever get a match to generate emotions like that ever again. What a fucking incredible match.

1. Mentioning it is likely the greatest match you’ve ever seen, GreggMeNowOrLater with your 5 Greatest Matches.

2. I was thinking on this a day ago and I’m in the wait and see camp. This was a good moment to pull the trigger but with how good the storytelling has been, I’m not counting out that with how everything plays out that maybe this will be my favorite outcome. The writing team and the people involve earned my patience as a satisfied viewer.

3. I love films with tragic endings where the lead falls short. I’ve come around to your thinking on this island of unfulfilled misery. Looking back with future context, this pain could likely be a beautiful thing.

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1 hour ago, Octopus said:

1. Mentioning it is likely the greatest match you’ve ever seen, GreggMeNowOrLater with your 5 Greatest Matches.

2. I was thinking on this a day ago and I’m in the wait and see camp. This was a good moment to pull the trigger but with how good the storytelling has been, I’m not counting out that with how everything plays out that maybe this will be my favorite outcome. The writing team and the people involve earned my patience as a satisfied viewer.

3. I love films with tragic endings where the lead falls short. I’ve come around to your thinking on this island of unfulfilled misery. Looking back with future context, this pain could likely be a beautiful thing.

Off the top of my head, and mind you that I am heavily WWE centric and also in my car since I had to run to Target to get diapers and forgetting probably 500000 things: 

1) Wyatts/Shield from Elimination Chamber

2) Revival vs. DIY where DIY win

3) Bayley/Sasha Ironwoman

4) Dustin/Ricky Steamboat vs. The Enforcers from that Clash of Champions (“He’s just a man!”)

5) Shawn/Diesel vs Razor/1-2-3 Kid

6) Raven/Richards vs. The Pitbulls, Doubke Dog Collar 2 out of 3 falls from I think Gangster’s Paradise

7) Steiner vs. Doc/Gordy from Clash of Champions 18

8 Bret/Austin from WM

9) Eddie vs. Rey in the WCW one 

10) Eddie/Art Barr vs Octogon/El Hijo de Santo from When World’s Collide

11) Owen/Bret

12) Jericho/Benoit vs. Austin/HHH from that Raw

13) Flair/Shawn in Flair’s retirement match

14) Flair/Funk I Quit

Oh add in Midnites vs. The Fantastcs from the first Clash and Sting/Flair from the same show.

I am sure there are a bunch more and far from anything official. I also did not put anything from AEW on the list but have no real reason why. But my favorite AEW matches off the top of my head: Acclaimed vs. Swerve In Their Glory, Moxley and Yuta from Rampage, the Blood and Guts with Eddie Kingston, Eddie vs. Punk, Eddie vs. Danielson, Acclaimed vs. Jeff Jarrett/Jay Lethal (the first one) and I am sure I am forgetting a bunch. Maybe MJF vs. Starks?

Edited by Greggulator
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1 hour ago, Greggulator said:

Off the top of my head, and mind you that I am heavily WWE centric and also in my car since I had to run to Target to get diapers and forgetting probably 500000 things: 

1) Wyatts/Shield from Elimination Chamber

2) Revival vs. DIY where DIY win

3) Bayley/Sasha Ironwoman

4) Dustin/Ricky Steamboat vs. The Enforcers from that Clash of Champions (“He’s just a man!”)

5) Shawn/Diesel vs Razor/1-2-3 Kid

6) Raven/Richards vs. The Pitbulls, Doubke Dog Collar 2 out of 3 falls from I think Gangster’s Paradise

7) Steiner vs. Doc/Gordy from Clash of Champions 18

8 Bret/Austin from WM

9) Eddie vs. Rey in the WCW one 

10) Eddie/Art Barr vs Octogon/El Hijo de Santo from When World’s Collide

11) Owen/Bret

12) Jericho/Benoit vs. Austin/HHH from that Raw

13) Flair/Shawn in Flair’s retirement match

14) Flair/Funk I Quit

Oh add in Midnites vs. The Fantastcs from the first Clash and Sting/Flair from the same show.

I am sure there are a bunch more and far from anything official. I also did not put anything from AEW on the list but have no real reason why. But my favorite AEW matches off the top of my head: Acclaimed vs. Swerve In Their Glory, Moxley and Yuta from Rampage, the Blood and Guts with Eddie Kingston, Eddie vs. Punk, Eddie vs. Danielson, Acclaimed vs. Jeff Jarrett/Jay Lethal (the first one) and I am sure I am forgetting a bunch. Maybe MJF vs. Starks?

 

59 minutes ago, Greggulator said:

Ohhh two additions from NXT now that I am home: 

1) Sami beating Neville for the title

2) Emma/Santino vs. Summer Rae/Fandango in the best comedy match I can think of.

Great picks. Here's mine:

1. Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin. WWF WrestleMania 13.

2. Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue. AJPW, 9th June 1995.

3. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart. WWF WrestleMania X.

4. Michaels/Undertaker. WWF In Your House 18: Badd Blood.

5. Steamboat/Flair. NWA COTC VI.

6. Kobashi/Misawa. AJPW, 31st October 1998.

7. Misawa/Kobashi. AJPW, 20th January 1997.

8. Okada/Omega. NJPW Dominion 2018.

9. Undertaker/Michaels. WWE WrestleMania XXV.

10. Cena/Bryan. WWE SummerSlam 2013.

11. Okada/Tanahashi. NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 10.

12. Michaels/Mankind. WWF In Your House 10: Mind Games.

13. Sasaki/Nakajima vs. Kobashi/Shiosaki. NOAH, 5th November 2005.

14. Wyatt Family vs. The Shield. WWE Elimination Chamber 2014.

15. Bayley vs. Sasha Banks. NXT TakeOver: Respect 2015.

Favourite AEW matches: Danielson vs. Omega #1, Danielson vs. Page I more than II, Rosa/Baker Light's Out, Punk/MJF I more than II.

Edited by The Natural
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6 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

Does that include, as The Shield? Because I mean we all like what we like, but to me Shield/Wyatts and Shield/Rhodes’s are pretty ubiquitously awesome. This is opposed to the singles stuff from any of the three, of which I can poke holes in all at some point.

I remember enjoying all that stuff. The first Shield run was my last time watching Raw every week consistently. Those random 6 mans every week was fun to watch. When I ever get to the point I want to revisit that stuff it's going to pay more attention to Roman in those matches. Him and Rollins made a great team and that match against the Uso was the first time I realized how good the Usos were.

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I was thinking about this earlier. I remember HHH was allegedly irritated with Zach Ryder to the point of even asking him if he was behind the crowds getting behind him. This is coming from Matt Cardona on his podcast a long time ago, so I’m fuzzy on the details. Could be a biased memory on his part, so take it with a grain of salt. But if true, that even back then, HHH was against fan support going off plan, it shouldn’t be a surprise that WWE is maintaining course on what they have planned especially with HHH at head of creative. I’m not saying what is right or wrong, more an interesting observation to take note of. 

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