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MAY 2021 Discussion of Wrestling.


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Muta did an elbow like that with one flip, Chapparita Asari did in with two flips. Ninja Mack can do far more...

If the first rule of Wrestling is "Do something to differentiate yourself", and the second rule of wrestling is "If you can do it, you should do it" (the third rule being "(Don't) outshine the main eventers"), Ninja Mack is right to do that.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Casey said:

That spot, to me, is no different than when any other wrestler does a handspring elbow. Comparing that to the phantom chokeslam or Chuck Taylor throwing grenades is crazy talk.

That wasn't really meant to be a direct comparison on my part; I mentioned Taylor tossing grenades as an example that anything can look dumb out of context, but even the most ostensibly reality-breaking stuff can absolutely work in context. 

But I do agree that they're not the same level of unreality. 

Edited by Smelly McUgly
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I actually think that spot would be better received if there was some escalation that we as people seeing it in gif form were aware of. Like. Ninja Mack doing three flips at this show. Then next month there is a gif of 4. Then 5.  Then a whole bunch.

Then the flips but the dude moves so he stops, kicks the dude in the junk and hits no flips.  Bringing it full circle.

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Man the last 45 minutes of the A&E Randy Savage is more than depressing.  I knew that the Savage/Gorgeous George relationship was bad but fuck it is much worse.  We thought Liz paranoid was bad but thus was next level 

Also spends way too much on Elizabeth death as well.  This was almost a darker version of Dark Side of the Ring Savage show

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28 minutes ago, hammerva said:

Man the last 45 minutes of the A&E Randy Savage is more than depressing.  This was almost a darker version of Dark Side of the Ring Savage show

thank you, now i will not be watching this ep (or the Vice one). sometimes you just don't want to know.

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4 hours ago, AxB said:

If the first rule of Wrestling is "Do something to differentiate yourself", and the second rule of wrestling is "If you can do it, you should do it" (the third rule being "(Don't) outshine the main eventers"), Ninja Mack is right to do that.

I always thought that it was "Just because you can do it doesn't actually mean you should do it." and I honestly think the interpretation of "if you can do it, do it" is a big part of why I don't enjoy wrestling as much as I used to. I also would say that with the amount of aerial and athletic stuff everybody does, doing infinity flips or something doesn't really set you apart from anybody. 

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Savage and Steamboat having a 160 part match for WM3 is wild. I type that as somebody who has written matches for e-feds like 20ish years ago. Writing it out and doing it live is something else.

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5 hours ago, Super Ape said:

I think that's what took me out of it more than anything. Honestly, if he moved out of the way and dude just kept flipping to the wall I probably would have laughed my ass off.

or if he'd done an eye gouge.

i'm still waiting for the handspring/tumbling eye gouge
 

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The mid-life crisis era of the Macho Man documentary was.... something else. Makes the tedious masturbation tape seem normal compared to the espionage and drugs and Angelo giving Randy steroids. It might say something about self-awareness of pro wrestlers vs the general population that George's sister decided "I'm obscuring my identity while talking while talking about the Macho Man hauling XTC pills" while pretty much everybody else probably didn't realize how fucked up some of this really was.

Also, Macho Man's rap album actually wasn't all that bad.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BobbyWhioux said:

or if he'd done an eye gouge.

i'm still waiting for the handspring/tumbling eye gouge
 

Young Bucks brought back the Handspring Back Rake a couple of weeks ago on Dynamite.

Couldn't find the video but there are some great back-rakes about 5:15 into this one: 

 

Edited by El Gran Gordi
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6 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

Savage and Steamboat having a 160 part match for WM3 is wild. I type that as somebody who has written matches for e-feds like 20ish years ago. Writing it out and doing it live is something else.

I am not sure what is more amazing.  The idea that it was a 160 part match or that it sure did seem like Ricky can recite the entire 160 steps about 34 years later

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7 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

It might say something about self-awareness of pro wrestlers vs the general population that George's sister decided "I'm obscuring my identity while talking while talking about the Macho Man hauling XTC pills" while pretty much everybody else probably didn't realize how fucked up some of this really was.

Part of me thinks she wanted to be obscured, because they'd originally brought up Savage asking George to have a threesome with the younger sister, but it was cut.

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1 hour ago, paintedbynumbers said:

I didn't think the doc did Randy any favors. For a documentary about him there was way too much focus on not only Elizabeth and George but a shit ton of focus on Hogan. Way too much Hogan for my liking. 

I don't have A&E but saw the first 50 minutes at my mom's house yesterday.  I agree on there being too much Hogan but haven't seen the stuff yet about George.  I honestly feel like I might be best off not seeing the rest as that sounds pretty damn dark.  I'll still need to find a way to check the first two episodes though which sounded pretty good.

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I am trying to figure about Lanny in this.  Either they didn't show him the final product and he was just as stunned as we were or is he is just as need for attention and spotlight as the ones on the Hogan side

I will give Luger (who they misspelled his last name for fuck sake)  credit for basically admit that his influence is why Elizabeth was death.   You can see how regretful he was for basically the last 2 years of him in WCW

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All I heard about the Macho Man doc was that it is bizarrely anti-Mach. Like, having Hogan constantly drag the guy and even getting Bubba the Love Sponge on it.

For fucks sake. Bubba the Love Sponge? Really? That's what we're going for here? The first two docs were all softballs and while I haven't watched this one yet, it sounds like total character assassination for a guy who is dead and can't even defend himself.

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3 hours ago, PetrolCB said:

Part of me thinks she wanted to be obscured, because they'd originally brought up Savage asking George to have a threesome with the younger sister, but it was cut.

Yeah, a quick Google leads me to find photos on George’s Twitter with her and her sister (either the sister in the documentary or another one). Also, the story involving Savage, Hawk, George, George’s sister, and Hawk’s wife at the Kid Rock concert didn’t make the documentary (did that make the Road Warriors DSOTR?).

George and George’s sister not playing along with the rest of the people acting like Savage didn’t use steroids or drugs was certainly a change in tone. Like the people making the whole thing didn’t realize what they were getting themselves into when they got George to talk to them.

I’m just working under the premise that Randy Savage had used other recreational drugs before he started doing XTC with his stripper girlfriend in 1999.

Also, not sure if they got close enough to offer insight but note that Mona/Molly and Medusa weren’t in the episode and on screen they were part of the Mid-Life Crisis team.

One extra thing, they used the phrase “stripping community” during that part of the episode. As in “George was part of the stripping community” which is certain an amazing euphemism.

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3 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

I'll still need to find a way to check the first two episodes though which sounded pretty good.

You should be able to watch for free on A&E’s website. That’s how I watched the Piper episode yesterday. Not sure how long they stay up, though. 

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2 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

George and George’s sister not playing along with the rest of the people acting like Savage didn’t use steroids or drugs was certainly a change in tone. Like the people making the whole thing didn’t realize what they were getting themselves into when they got George to talk to them.

Anyone they interview that's still associated or wants to be associated with the WWE, is going to use the "they used them to rehab injuries", "they might have used them" and so on, while George & her sister don't give a F about pleasing the McMahon's so they said the obvious. 

There seemed to be a put the knife in and twist it feel to this episode, one would assume that's Vince still holding a grudge.

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"Mr. McMahon, we found out some less than favorable stuff about Randy from his ex-girlfriend. Should we air it?"

"Yeah sure, that's okay"

It was probably a good time for A&E's attorneys to draw the line between the things they could air and things that would have either gotten them sued or made the WWF look bad.

Like, the WWE has been on relatively good terms with Lex Luger but they kinda touched on that a little bit. Nowhere near as bad as how they covered it on Confidential though.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cobra Commander said:

"Mr. McMahon, we found out some less than favorable stuff about Randy from his ex-girlfriend. Should we air it?"

"Yeah sure, that's okay"

It was probably a good time for A&E's attorneys to draw the line between the things they could air and things that would have either gotten them sued or made the WWF look bad.

Like, the WWE has been on relatively good terms with Lex Luger but they kinda touched on that a little bit. Nowhere near as bad as how they covered it on Confidential though.

I confess I haven't seen the episode yet, but I'd speculate that it's actually a possibility that WWE is more "comfortable" (for lack of a better term) discussing the criminal stuff with Lex over the obvious steroid use because they were so God damn brazen in trying to convince people that his physique was all ICO PRO - when the Network first came out, I rewatched an early Raw where they asked him in an interview segment "Are you on steroids?" and he was like "NO WAY, STEROIDS HAVE NO PLACE IN SPORTS, KIDS." I'd also guess that Lex being a Born Again Christian helps "explain away" the other stuff in their eyes - can't help but push a redemption story. 

Edited by Zakk_Sabbath
I said Lex was on the payroll, but took that part out - not sure if he is but I remember at one time he was involved with the Wellness program in some capacity
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10 hours ago, paintedbynumbers said:

I didn't think the doc did Randy any favors. 

My counterargument would be that I don't think Randy spending several decades doing lots of drugs and being an increasingly out-of-control paranoid nutball did Randy any favors.

Savage is a top 5 or 10 guy for me, but he documentary just reconfirmed the opinion I've had of him as a person.  There wasn't much new or different in the episode, and, honestly, I could rattle off stories that make him sound even worse.  The Liz-Savage stuff has always sounded creepy, it's always been known that Randy was sorta weird (do you know anyone who starts doing their television character 24/7?  Or refers to themselves in the third person?) and we've always kinda known that Randy was using heavily (both performance enhancers and recreational drugs.  It's not the flimmakers fault that they didn't have a lot to work with to paint Randy in a better light.

I thought Lanny came off as a toadie.  No idea how fair it is, but he came off as an enabler who wouldn't say anything to Randy about anything unless he was sure Randy wanted to hear it (prob. because, even in WCW, he was drawing a salary mostly because Randy wanted him taken care of). 

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