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Bret Hart is one of the most boring fucking wrestlers to watch. Maybe even moreso than Ric Flair, but at least Flair has personality, or charisma, or whatever you want to call it.

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1 hour ago, El Gran Gordi said:

You know what's the worst? 

It's those entitled grandpa wrestling fans who constantly complain that modern pro wrestling sucks and call current wrestlers "move monkeys" 😊 

If you need to write a 500 word dissertation on why what your watching isn't post-modern trash that means absolutely nothing, it's probably not as good as you think it is.

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If you could Thanos-snap all of professional wrestling out of existence for all of history, the world would probably be a better place. At the least, it wouldn't be missing anything, and maybe the McMahons would be washing cars or working as short order cooks or something. 

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i dont give a shit about Jericho on Austins Network interview show. i just wish Austin would go back to doing his regular podcast because i'd like to hear more tales about his Nevada ranch and Los Angleez traffic

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1 hour ago, Raziel said:

If you need to write a 500 word dissertation on why what your watching isn't post-modern trash that means absolutely nothing, it's probably not as good as you think it is.

On the flip side of that, I don’t need anyone to do a full roster critique of any company’s talent because who the fuck cares

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1 hour ago, bazzil said:

i dont give a shit about Jericho on Austins Network interview show. i just wish Austin would go back to doing his regular podcast because i'd like to hear more tales about his Nevada ranch and Los Angleez traffic

Am i right its been over a year since a new episode? The last new show i have in my queue is from Feb 2020. 

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3 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Am i right its been over a year since a new episode? The last new show i have in my queue is from Feb 2020. 

i think its been over two years now.

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My hot take is:

 

I don't get Dusty Rhodes. I mean, the promos are good but his weird NWA character of John Wayne/ladies man/ guy who also bragged about his money and wore a mink coat despite supposed to be representing the blue collar workers just always rang false to me. He was never super great in the ring and didn't look particularly tough. 

There was nothing especially cool about him.

I get why Vince just turned him into a goofy dancing fat man with an unattractive girlfriend. 

Edited by Hagan
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3 hours ago, Hagan said:

My hot take is:

 

I don't get Dusty Rhodes. I mean, the promos are good but his weird NWA character of John Wayne/ladies man/ guy who also bragged about his money and wore a mink coat despite supposed to be representing the blue collar workers just always rang false to me. He was never super great in the ring and didn't look particularly tough. 

There was nothing especially cool about him.

I get why Vince just turned him into a goofy dancing fat man with an unattractive girlfriend. 

He was what I’d call super great for a guy his size in Florida, and his face turn vs Pak Song was 1 of the all time great moments in rasslin. That led to 1 of the best feuds that ever was against Kevin Sullivan. It was very NWO in 1996 or SCSA in 1998 like, where everything going on somehow had a connection to that feud. That was the first time those people watching had ever seen something so advanced to go along with that good of wrestling and it really got inside of people. I’ve mentioned before that my old man always talked about it. I’ve watched all I could find of the stuff that was available when tape trading first started and maybe I’m just sentimental but if you ask me it was good stuff. Jim Crockett sure thought so. Heck that whole wrestlingclassics message board was started by some guys who were obsessed with Florida IIRC. 
 

Now...once he got even fatter by about 1985 he just plain sucked in the ring. His other entertainment qualities got stale and he was cheered but it was with the same intensity as Jim Duggan on WCW Pro in 1998. That’s not even getting into everything else he was responsible for f*cking up that fans didn’t understand at the time. I get frustrated watching him in the NWA myself, and by extension a bunch of other stuff because he sabotaged it or only let it be on a leash. It was just like watching Eddie or Chris in WCW. It was good and sometimes great but never what it should have been because of Hogan or somebody. In 1987 it was because of Dusty.

Edited by BloodyChamp
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Nice post. And yeah, more even than the in-ring stuff I never got his character. I knew what it was on  paper as the working class hero but he seemed to kind of be an asshole and just talked about how awesome he was and how women wanted to bang him. Like, I'm supposed to believe Baby Doll was with him? 

I know he was positioned as the anti-thesis of the Ric Flair character but he really wasn't. Ronnie Garvin was. Ricky Steamboat was. Dusty just seemed like he wanted to out-Flair Flair. 

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In 2021, you also have the odd dynamic to modern eyes of the large white guy doing a jive gimmick. 
 

id think a large part of his gimmick would be denounced as cultural appropriation or something similar. 

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47 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

Now...once he got even fatter by about 1985 he just plain sucked in the ring. His other entertainment qualities got stale and he was cheered but it was with the same intensity as Jim Duggan on WCW Pro in 1998

It helps to have the Horsemen as foils?

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I originally posted a version of this in the "Wrestling Tropes You Love / Hate" thread, but it makes more sense here:

I hate that wrestling companies allow blatant cheating, caught on video in clear view of everyone, to go completely unpunished. Some promotions even allow their supposedly prestigious titles to change hands as a result of such acts. It makes no sense and cheapens everything.

I also hate that the rules of pro wrestling permit competitors to drop each other on their heads and necks, kick and knee downed opponents in the head, and throw each other over the top rope.

These moves being legal makes nonsense out of everything that happens in the ring. Why would you ever scoop slam an opponent on their back when you could spike them on the top of their head instead? If your opponent is on the mat in front of you, why would you ever do anything but stomp their face over and over? Why would you ever hit a press slam or powerbomb in the ring, when from the same setup, you could throw your opponent over the top rope to the floor? It would be way more effective, and it's all legal!

All wrestling promotions should outlaw moves that involve lifting the opponent off their feet and dropping them on their head or neck, as well as all kicks and knees to the heads of downed opponents, and all throws over the top where the opponent's feet are off the mat before their shoulders clear the perimeter of the ropes. They should also move away from unambiguous match-deciding cheating, except for angles where a decision gets reversed or a wrestler gets suspended.

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Here's another: I think they should also enforce the rules in tag team matches way more strictly. Right now, enforcement of the rules is so lax that it makes no sense for the wrestlers to ever follow them.

If you're not the legal man, there's no reason to stay out on the apron, and no reason to leave the ring when the ref tells you. You'll never get punished, so obeying the rules can only place you at a disadvantage. But everyone still does some perfunctory rule-following, at least in the early goings. Even heel teams do this.

Not only does it not make sense in general, it ruins the hot tag. There's no point to a hot tag when the wrestler on the apron could just come in and clean house at any time, whether they get tagged in or not.

They should also limit the number of times the non-legal man in a tag match can break up a pin or submission. I've heard WWE actually does do this, but never conveys it to the audience, which is weird. I think it would a great way to build drama and tell stories. Two saves per team would be a good number.

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One more: rope breaks are extremely overused. It seems like most wrestlers, in kayfabe, never bother to train submission escapes and just rely on the ropes to bail them out. That's lame. The wrestlers look weak for taking that approach, and the sport looks bad for rewarding it.

The solution: all pro wrestling should limit the number of rope breaks the way ROH pure rules matches do, and wrestler should respond by working in more submission escapes.

Like limiting saves in tag matches, this would open up more cool ways to structure matches and build suspense. PLUS, you could do the old spot where a face goes for a sunset flip, the heel holds the ropes, and ref kicks the heel's hands away--and have it make sense!

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2 hours ago, Hagan said:

Nice post. And yeah, more even than the in-ring stuff I never got his character. I knew what it was on  paper as the working class hero but he seemed to kind of be an asshole and just talked about how awesome he was and how women wanted to bang him. Like, I'm supposed to believe Baby Doll was with him? 

I know he was positioned as the anti-thesis of the Ric Flair character but he really wasn't. Ronnie Garvin was. Ricky Steamboat was. Dusty just seemed like he wanted to out-Flair Flair. 

And what better way to do that than to book yourself to beat him lol! Then do the same to Luger and The Road Warriors. Maybe all 3 of those things combined should do the trick. No? Well then invent tournaments and name new titles and book yourself to win all of those. Those things all actually happened yes lol!

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2 hours ago, MapRef41N93W said:

 

I also hate that the rules of pro wrestling permit competitors to drop each other on their heads and necks, kick and knee downed opponents in the head, and throw each other over the top rope.

 

 

 

Battle royals got over so much in the 70's because they were promoted as the most dangerous match of the year. Over the top rope was a DQ in all other matches then.

My hot take is that I would have been happier if wrestling shut down in 1973, but the International Roller Derby League never folded.

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NJPW is the only promotion using older wrestlers correctly. 

If Peyton Manning announced he was coming back, I'd expect him to get murdered in the NFL. If Chuck Liddell somehow got cleared to fight, you would assume he is about to get his skull caved in.  In WWE logic, or wrestling in general, both are legends and therefore invincible.

Any older wrestler should get slaughtered by younger guys. Unless you are Minoru Suzuki, if AARP is sending you flyers you are a NJPW Dad wrestler.

On a similar note, I hate how celebrities/athletes come in to WWE and are usually better than who they wrestle. In reality, everyone just looks awful. Great, anyone in good shape off the street can beat your supposed "pro" wrestlers. 

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23 minutes ago, Spontaneous said:

NJPW is the only promotion using older wrestlers correctly. 

If Peyton Manning announced he was coming back, I'd expect him to get murdered in the NFL. If Chuck Liddell somehow got cleared to fight, you would assume he is about to get his skull caved in.  In WWE logic, or wrestling in general, both are legends and therefore invincible.

Any older wrestler should get slaughtered by younger guys. Unless you are Minoru Suzuki, if AARP is sending you flyers you are a NJPW Dad wrestler.

I always thought a postprime Brett Favre sort of gimmick would have been great in wrestling. Obviously a Brett Favre gimmick could mean many things lol but in this case I mean something like you mentioned with Peyton. For the last 3 years of Favre’s career people thought he could die every time he got hit. And by 2010 it wasn’t just a meme. People really thought he was going to die lol! This was flirted with in Foley’s last days but they never ran with it. 

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On 4/2/2021 at 7:20 PM, El Gran Gordi said:

Here's mine: Pro wrestling is fun. Watching it is fun, discussing it is a fine way to pass some time, going to live pro wrestling shows and hanging out with pro wrestling friends is just about the most fun a person can have with their clothes on. Over-analyzing pro wrestling and getting all worked up about pro wrestling opinions is...

  Hide contents

...also a lot of fun

 

Quality use of the spoiler tag. I was emotionally prepared to sternly wave my finger at you. Well done.

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9 hours ago, Hagan said:

I don't get Dusty Rhodes. I mean, the promos are good but his weird NWA character of John Wayne/ladies man/ guy who also bragged about his money and wore a mink coat despite supposed to be representing the blue collar workers just always rang false to me. He was never super great in the ring and didn't look particularly tough. 

Imagine a poor black kid who grew up poor, who was a charismatic genuinely good guy, who worked his ass off and made it big in sports and entertainment...now make him white.  That's essentially the entire Dusty Rhodes character.

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5 hours ago, odessasteps said:

In 2021, you also have the odd dynamic to modern eyes of the large white guy doing a jive gimmick. 
 

id think a large part of his gimmick would be denounced as cultural appropriation or something similar. 

I think he'd be called out more today for blatantly ripping off a black wrestler in Thunderbolt Patterson and making 10000x more money doing so.

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Also 1 thing I left out about Dusty is that people rooted for him the way they rooted for SCSA. Sounds crazy now but it’s true. They had opposite looks but SCSA could have been the worst looking guy ever and people would have rooted for him because of his other qualities. Dusty is proof of that lol! The middle class working people loved SCSA and everything he did just like they did Dusty. 

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