AEW R-Evolution II - 3/7/2021

[Technico Support]

2 hours ago, Ryan Faulconer said:

Did anyone comment on the lack of Top Flight and FTR during the broadcast?

 

FTR, dunno.  Top Flight -- one of them hurt his ankle.

God damn, this is a WWF 1988 level tag division.  15 team tag rumble, two teams you mentioned not on the show, no Best Friends because Trent is out hurt, plus Jericho/MJF and The Bucks were already working.  God damn.  Time for a TNT Tag Team Championship.  I'd love to see a midcard team defend against random indy teams every week.  Shit, give it to Daniels and Kaazarian and let them fend off challenges to the belts, and their future as a team, from Warhausen, Gaytanic Panic, Besties, etc.

I love the topic of "what is a star" nowadays.  Honestly.  Titles are meaningless because they're passed around like Covid, "drawing a crowd" is meaningless because WWE has become the circus or the Globetrotters where the brand is the draw and individual acts don't mean shit.  So what's a star?  Someone who has been pushed as a top guy for a certain amount of time in a major company, I guess?  Even that is kinda bullshit because pushes aren't based on merit.  I don't know the answer but I enjoy reading you dudes arguing it.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Technico Support

[For Great Justice]

oh man an Elevation main event of Butcher and Blade defending the TNT tag straps against Bear Country makes up for Kingston having to sell for the birthday candle at Chili's

[Matt D]

Man, Valentine vs Christian on an in-ring perspective is a tough one. Christian's 09-11 is one of the best week to week TV runs ever. On the other hand, he was never really put in the position to have the sort of brawls that Valentine was having in 83-84, and that's just one aspect of Valentine's game. The problem with Valentine is that basically the only thing he has on his resume after the age of 37 is the Garvin feud. And he had another ten years where he was on TV a lot and where we have a lot of indy footage of him.

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

4 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

FTR, dunno.  Top Flight -- one of them hurt his ankle.

God damn, this is a WWF 1988 level tag division.  15 team tag rumble, two teams not on the show, plus Jericho/MJF and The Bucks.  God damn.  Time for a TNT Tag Team Championship.  I'd love to see a midrange team defend against random indy teams every week.  Shit, give it to Daniels and Kaazarian and let them fend off challenges to the belts, and their future as a team, from Warhausen, Gaytanic Panic, Besties, etc.

I dunno either, but I think FTR should decide they're above Battle Royales.

[Technico Support]

4 minutes ago, For Great Justice said:

oh man an Elevation main event of Butcher and Blade defending the TNT tag straps against Bear Country makes up for Kingston having to sell for the birthday candle at Chili's

I just saw that match on a Beyond show from early 2019.  It was a fun, short Mean Guy Match.  OH, here it is from Youtube.  Enjoy.

[SirSmUgly]

7 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Man, Valentine vs Christian on an in-ring perspective is a tough one. Christian's 09-11 is one of the best week to week TV runs ever. On the other hand, he was never really put in the position to have the sort of brawls that Valentine was having in 83-84, and that's just one aspect of Valentine's game. The problem with Valentine is that basically the only thing he has on his resume after the age of 37 is the Garvin feud. And he had another ten years where he was on TV a lot and where we have a lot of indy footage of him.

I never really "got" Valentine in ring, tbh. I much prefer Christian. But that's in-ring stuff rather than "what is their national profile" stuff. 

I should probably stop screwing up this thread by veering it way off topic, though. Apologies for all that. 

[AxB]

10 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

FTR, dunno.  Top Flight -- one of them hurt his ankle.

God damn, this is a WWF 1988 level tag division.  15 team tag rumble, two teams you mentioned not on the show, no Best Friends because Trent is out hurt, plus Jericho/MJF and The Bucks were already working.  God damn.  Time for a TNT Tag Team Championship.  I'd love to see a midcard team defend against random indy teams every week.  Shit, give it to Daniels and Kaazarian and let them fend off challenges to the belts, and their future as a team, from Warhausen, Gaytanic Panic, Besties, etc.

Danhausen is signed to ROH now, so that puts Warhausen and Gaytanic Panic off the table.

When Impact brought Ethan Page in (as a disciple of Matt Sydal, which made no sense at all but hey ho) they did a big "We know who that is" deal for him. And at that point, he was mostly abuzz in the industry for the big spot he had in the Over Budget Battle Royal at All In. Which I bet nobody can remember now.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

10 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

This is maybe going to sound specious, but I still think that he's not a star by the standards of what a mainstream crowd would consider and that he just didn't have the mainstream recognition to hit that point.

You're using the word star as a synonym for mainstream recognition. (Yes I know this response was about Valentine and not Christian). That's not what star means. Especially not in the context that it was used for the purposes of what AEW promoted. So this is where I will tap out. I don't think our opinions are that far off from each other, but you just give far too much importance to the word star.

[Technico Support]

4 minutes ago, AxB said:

Danhausen is signed to ROH now, so that puts Warhausen and Gaytanic Panic off the table.

 

Ah shit, that's right.  I did just see a long interview with him from ROH that I forgot about.  It really hammered home the fact that his shtick only works in short bursts.  In a long promo, you can't shake the idea that he sounds like a late 90s Adam Sandler character.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Technico Support

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

15 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Man, Valentine vs Christian on an in-ring perspective is a tough one. Christian's 09-11 is one of the best week to week TV runs ever. On the other hand, he was never really put in the position to have the sort of brawls that Valentine was having in 83-84, and that's just one aspect of Valentine's game. The problem with Valentine is that basically the only thing he has on his resume after the age of 37 is the Garvin feud. And he had another ten years where he was on TV a lot and where we have a lot of indy footage of him.

I know it's not exactly top tier stuff, but his run in WCW was often hella fun.

 

[Matt D]

13 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

I never really "got" Valentine in ring, tbh. I much prefer Christian. But that's in-ring stuff rather than "what is their national profile" stuff. 

I should probably stop screwing up this thread by veering it way off topic, though. Apologies for all that. 

You should watch the 7/9/83 Piper vs Valentine and Boogie Jam 84 Slater vs Valentine matches before the network gets Peacock Neutered and they disappear. Check back after that.

@RunningFromAmericaI wish we had more of the Slater/Valentine team from 92. The glimpses are fun. I wish we had the Dustin singles match from Chicago they built up on WCW PRO on WGN too.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Matt D

[SirSmUgly]

39 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

You're using the word star as a synonym for mainstream recognition. (Yes I know this response was about Valentine and not Christian). That's not what star means. Especially not in the context that it was used for the purposes of what AEW promoted. So this is where I will tap out. I don't think our opinions are that far off from each other, but you just give far too much importance to the word 

No, it's not a definition entirely dependent upon mainstream rec, but yes, I think that is important to being a star. I think that you have a definition of the word star that differs from not only mine, but from a lot of that crowd, so you might be in a bit of a minority. Not that it makes you wrong; it just makes your view different.

@Matt D: I don't have the Network, but that Piper/Valentine match is on YouTube and I've seen it before. IDK about the other one.

I might come back and watch it if we do another Secret Santo where I have to watch something that I normally wouldn't or whatever. I hope we fire that back up again this summer when I have some time to write. For now, I'm just watching the Portland set, so that's my focus at this point. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Smelly McUgly

[Niners Fan in CT]

1 hour ago, Smelly McUgly said:

I would argue that getting Sasha Banks would also count

Close thread. All is forgiven. 

[S.K.o.S.]

I'm only on page 21 of 24 so maybe this was touched on already, but: when Paul Wight brought up the new signing, he said "I have the biggest scoop ever."  Christian to AEW is not the biggest scoop ever.  That's where the idea that it was overhyped came from.

Everything else they said about Christian was true, although it's a little weird to say someone in wrestling is a hall-of-famer when the most prominent wrestling Hall of Fame is the largely meaningless WWE Hall of Fame.

Edited March 8, 2021 by S.K.o.S.
Called Paul Wight "Big Show", oops

[HarryArchieGus]

AEW so often books debuts poorly.

Ethan Page is a guy who would really benefit huge from a set of introductory videos.  Throwing him out there like he's a recognizable star is silly.  They barely even discussed the sixth man as a 'mystery' prior to the show.  And being the sixth, or whatever the number, in a multi-man match like this is a complete waste.  

As has been said, love to see the stale and dated ladder match concept just go the fuck away.  And to never be used again in silly multi-man matches.  Multi-man matches can go the fuck away too.  AEW has such a low bating average with these type of matches.  I really hope at some point they take lesson from their own clear history.  

Christian is a terrific pro wrestler.  I was always a fan.  I agree completely that, from what I saw (which doesn't include the last 15 plus years), he was under utilized in WWE.  I am certain he will be used well in AEW and will provide great veteran leadership.  I like this signing.  That said, such an awkward way to debut a guy.  Do you really think whomever walks out is not going to be compared to Lesnar and Punk?  I prefer Christian to both, but to most he's a letdown from those names and the other wild possibilities.  Again, happy he's there.  He's a better pick-up for my tastes than any of the other names, but I just wish they'd put enough thought into how this could affect their audience's reaction.

I'm late here as I always watch AEW on replay.  I have no patience to sit thru commercials.  Or some of the nonsense that occurs week to week.  And especially on PPV.  This was no exception. 

I liked the opening tag.  I liked enough Hardy and Page.  I surprisingly really enjoyed the Casino Royal - the first one they've done that really worked.  The Silver-Pac/Fenix-Jungle Boy finish and then Jungle Boy-Fenix was the most excitement I felt over the course of the show.  Omega-Moxley was good enough until the Good Bros run in and ridiculously long beatdown.  The Cinematic match was fine, the commentary was not.  Yeah, Brian Cage holding the suplex up the stairs was another show highlight.  I had little interest in Miro/Kip-Taylor/OC, but it was nice to see OC's fire.  And Miro looked good.

I think the best thing from this PPV is they seem to bounce back after huge letdowns quite well.  That said, seems to be sort of a recurring theme coming off Pay Per Views.  Definitely a form they've yet to master. 
 

Edited March 8, 2021 by HarryArchieGus

[John from Cincinnati]

5 minutes ago, S.K.o.S. said:

I'm only on page 21 of 24 so maybe this was touched on already, but: when Paul Wight brought up the new signing, he said "I have the biggest scoop ever."  Christian to AEW is not the biggest scoop ever.  That's where the idea that it was overhyped came from.

In Paul's defense, it's certainly his biggest scoop ever. 

[S.K.o.S.]

2 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

In Paul's defense, it's certainly his biggest scoop ever. 

If his AEW character is a Mean Gene "call the hotline" type, maybe that was just his character talking! But we wouldn't know yet, when those are some of the first words out of his mouth.

[Jiji]

Sums up most of the last few pages for me.

[Matt D]

19 minutes ago, S.K.o.S. said:

I'm only on page 21 of 24 so maybe this was touched on already, but: when Paul Wight brought up the new signing, he said "I have the biggest scoop ever."  Christian to AEW is not the biggest scoop ever.  That's where the idea that it was overhyped came from.

Everything else they said about Christian was true, although it's a little weird to say someone in wrestling is a hall-of-famer when the most prominent wrestling Hall of Fame is the largely meaningless WWE Hall of Fame.

Hey. He was 102 on the 2016 Greatest Wrestler Ever poll.

[Niners Fan in CT]

38 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Hey. He was 102 on the 2016 Greatest Wrestler Ever poll.

is that not hall of fame worthy? 

[tbarrie]

I just read twenty-four pages of discussion to see if anybody had mentioned that one of the Jacksons taking a foreign object shot immediately followed by MJF's finisher and kicking out was horseshit. It appears they haven't, so:

One of the Jacksons taking a foreign object shot immediately followed by MJF's finisher and kicking out was horseshit.

Thank you.

[Jiji]

MJF's true finish is the Salt of Da Earth though. He wins with the piledriver gimmick sometimes but I'm sure he'll be just fine. I popped for it.

[Matt D]

6 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

is that not hall of fame worthy? 

He’s in the Matt D Hall of Fame but so is No Class Bobby Bass, so.....

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

3 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

The thing that sucks the most about all this is that when something disappoints like this there's no good way to make this up.  It's pointless trying to kayfabe it when ultimately the owner should man up and apologize.  And if they try to get it right soon after it'll just feel hollow. 

A Pee Wee Herman-eque "We meant to do that!" is definitely not the right way to handle this. And it seriously seems like that is the direction Tony K has chosen to go. 

I( sincerely hope that someone is able to reign him in and talk him out of that. It's verging on the kind of "contempt for your audience" territory that ended up driving me away from WWE. Please, AEW, just apologize and move on!

 

I think that Christian is arguably the least bad of all of the possible people AEW could have signed this week. A very cromulent high-floor low ceiling pick. He's likely to bring a decent amount to the table and take very little away. I think some of the bigger names being thrown around might have ended up doing more harm than good. 

That being said, it's hard to argue that AEW didn't over-promise and under-deliver. 

Tony Khan literally said “This Sunday a major star in the world of wrestling, a huge, huge star is going to come and sign a multi-year contract with AEW on Sunday at the pay-per-view..."  on the AEW Unrestricted podcast. I think that needs to be considered in the semantics arguments w/r/t what the word "star" means.

 

I'd also like to close on a positive note, so:

I think both Chris Jericho and Brian Cage raised the value of their stock yesterday. 

The Death Triangle vs Young Bucks feud should be pretty great.

 

[tbarrie]

9 minutes ago, Jiji said:

MJF's true finish is the Salt of Da Earth though. He wins with the piledriver gimmick sometimes but I'm sure he'll be just fine. I popped for it.

Yeah, but the Heatseeker looks better and should be his primary finish. Spindly little middle-aged dudes kicking out of it is not going to get it there.