Skeeball Wizard Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The talk in the MITB thread made me realize how tired I am of the "Evil Authority Figure" storyline in Pro Wrestling. What are the clichés that everyone else here is tired of seeing? I'll also add the "start every Raw with a talking segment". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Z Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Cheap nWo knock-off stables. Yes, it can be cool, when done right, but it's been done sooo many times. Just knock it off for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muhammedboehm Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Refs being blind, dumb, or stupid, or all three Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromatagon Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 message board threads that read like reddit posts But seriously, WWE totally turned me off recently and I don't even know what they did. I haven't watched that shit since Mania. I think the worst cliché is STAYING THE FUCKING SAME ALL THE TIME and not trying new shit enough. Like I think that's what got me away from WWE - whenever shit would get cool or it'd look like someone was getting somewhere, POOF RESET back to normal. I'm not watching to get invested in this Kevin Owens stuff but it's probably going to happen there too. I also won't complain about evil authority figures while Dario Cueto is killing it every week, but Lucha Underground is the antithesis of everything I hate about wrestling for the most part. It's different and it isn't trying to be WWE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muhammedboehm Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I would also add 50/50 booking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Every feud needing 3 PPV matches. Come the fuck on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Handicap matches. Quit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromatagon Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The worst thing about the feuds having to have 3 PPV matches is them doing a gimmick match either first or in the middle. YOU BEAT ME IN THAT CAGE MATCH BRAY BUT ILL DESTROY YOU IN THIS REGULAR ONE ON ONE EXHIBITION Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianChris Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Guys hiding outside in battle royals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Bad News Barrett jobbing to everyone 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool arrow Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Distraction finishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Characters revealing schemes, motives, and secrets in front of a television crew that they know is being fed throughout the building and on live television. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Entrance music signaling a run-in. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Counters/contrived set-up maneuvers as regular parts of people's movesets (eg. Kidman's power bomb reversal, Rey's 619, Orton's rope-hung DDT, Ambrose's rebound clothesline) WWE's "get yer moves in" match-calling style in general, particularly in TV matches where squeezing two guys' movesets in leaves little time for any variation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Z Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Refs being blind, dumb, or stupid, or all three What about referees being the weakest people on planet earth? You barely have to touch them and they act like they've been hit by a dump truck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The heel authority figure has been tired for over a decade, yet it still persists. I feel like no one in wrestling paid attention to the original two heel authority figure angles (Bischoff in WCW, Vince in WWF). Vince was getting shown up by Austin (or Rocky/Taker/DX in his absence) about 75% of the time. Vince had to scheme like crazy to get one over on Austin and it was always a big deal when he did, but usually Austin would get back to beating his ass the next week. Any physical confrontation never ended well for Vince, or whoever Vince's chosen one was at the time. This angle worked largely because of the charisma of the two main characters, but also in some part due to the strong face-oriented booking that's more conducive to satisfying fictional storytelling. Meanwhile, Bischoff and his cronies were the ones doing the beatdowns every week while the faces looked like dopes and had go through hoops to get any sort of payback. Bischoff himself never got shown up in any significant fashion in WCW. I'll let you guess which one of those angles led to the company making millions with record ratings and ppv buys going into the new century, and and which started sending the company into millions of dollars of debt before fading out of business with a whimper. Anyway, while we're at it, throw out heel announcers too. There hasn't been a decent one since Ventura, and they always drag commentary down. Finisher kickouts jumped the shark when Shawn kicked out of the tombstone at WM 25 (although it's been a thing since the tail end of the attitude era). Whatever happened to the art of finding creative ways to AVOID your opponents finisher? Every Raw match needing a commercial break so we can have multiple uninterrupted 15-minute promos, resulting in the "[wrestler] is rolling" spot that's become pretty trite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanChessgame Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Distraction finishes This. The "music of a person a wrestler is feuding with hits, they come out and taunt them, then their opponent rolls them up" finish is overdone and annoying. On a related note, a heel's goon squad constantly interfering and the refs doing nothing and leading to an eventual DQ or fuck finish needs to go as well. I realize this is part of a cowardly heel's schtick and as much as I like the antics of J&J Security, each time they come out it's pretty much a foregone conclusion as to how the match will end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 My all time least favorite recurring spot (though I haven't seen it much lately thank the FSM) is the old baby face on the apron, heel in the ring, face shoots a shoulder to the gut between the ropes, uses the top rope to launch into a sunset flip. Heel grabs the top rope to prevent going over into the pin attempt, and the ref kicks the heel's hands off the rope, then dives down to count the pin. Why the fuck are you aiding the face instead of starting a five count for a rope break?!? I hated that spot when I was nine and cheered all the good guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo Necro Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Simple 101 booking being viewed as outdated. Hey, WWE, you booked a show that packed in 1,000,000 people into the Astrodome just buy having a simple sympathetic babyface body slam an evil foreign giant. Here's a reason for that... It works... Faces v Heels. Faces made to be likeable, Heels being dicks. We need to move on from the 90s and cool heels and dickhead Babyfaces. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offspring515 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 WWE matches only ending with finishing moves or cheap roll ups. Some variety now and again would add some real drama to the 2.9 bomb fest matches like Cena/Owens. If Cena ever pinned anyone with his top rope legdrop, for instance, when he hit it in a big match the fans would be even more into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Sweetser Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 My all time least favorite recurring spot (though I haven't seen it much lately thank the FSM) is the old baby face on the apron, heel in the ring, face shoots a shoulder to the gut between the ropes, uses the top rope to launch into a sunset flip. Heel grabs the top rope to prevent going over into the pin attempt, and the ref kicks the heel's hands off the rope, then dives down to count the pin. Why the fuck are you aiding the face instead of starting a five count for a rope break?!? I hated that spot when I was nine and cheered all the good guys. As a former ref, I've got nothing but "referee's discretion". If you think about it, the count should actually be on the guy doing the sunset flip, since he's not breaking his hold. At the very least, any pinfall attempt should be negated. (I remember when PWI put out that "Wrestling Rulebook". They didn't even bother figuring this one out.) Real answer is the same reason as why wrestling shoving refs, then the ref shoving him on his ass happens - it gets a pop nearly every time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muhammedboehm Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I'm sorta surprised we haven't gotten a 'crowds trying to steal the show' 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 My all time least favorite recurring spot (though I haven't seen it much lately thank the FSM) is the old baby face on the apron, heel in the ring, face shoots a shoulder to the gut between the ropes, uses the top rope to launch into a sunset flip. Heel grabs the top rope to prevent going over into the pin attempt, and the ref kicks the heel's hands off the rope, then dives down to count the pin. Why the fuck are you aiding the face instead of starting a five count for a rope break?!? I hated that spot when I was nine and cheered all the good guys. As a former ref, I've got nothing but "referee's discretion". If you think about it, the count should actually be on the guy doing the sunset flip, since he's not breaking his hold. At the very least, any pinfall attempt should be negated. (I remember when PWI put out that "Wrestling Rulebook". They didn't even bother figuring this one out.) Real answer is the same reason as why wrestling shoving refs, then the ref shoving him on his ass happens - it gets a pop nearly every time. Yeah, that's what I meant, the ref should be doing a five count on the face to break the hold.Yes, it gets a pop, but it was the first thing that truly hurt kayfabe for me as a kid. I've hated it for twenty five years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromatagon Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I feel like if everyone booked a little more like 70s All Japan we'd be in a good place 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Finisher kickouts jumped the shark when Shawn kicked out of the tombstone at WM 25 (although it's been a thing since the tail end of the attitude era). Whatever happened to the art of finding creative ways to AVOID your opponents finisher?Yeah, it didn't start with Shawn. Guys have been kicking out of the tombstone at Mania for a while now. IIRC, it took no less than three tombstones for Taker to beat Kane at WM14. My all time least favorite recurring spot (though I haven't seen it much lately thank the FSM) is the old baby face on the apron, heel in the ring, face shoots a shoulder to the gut between the ropes, uses the top rope to launch into a sunset flip. Heel grabs the top rope to prevent going over into the pin attempt, and the ref kicks the heel's hands off the rope, then dives down to count the pin. Why the fuck are you aiding the face instead of starting a five count for a rope break?!? I hated that spot when I was nine and cheered all the good guys. Get outta my brain, Fowler; that's what I was gonna post! I absolutely fucking loathe that spot to death and beyond... especially because I've DONE that spot, i.e. been the referee who kicked the heel's hands off the ropes. Never because I wanted to, but because that's the spot the guys called and the ref is pretty much supposed to follow the wrestlers' instructions at all times. It never, ever made any sense at all and nobody's ever been able to offer even the weakest token explanation of why it should ever take place, beyond "the crowd kinda pops for it". Yeah, and the crowd would also pop if the referee just kicked the heel in the nuts for no reason, but we don't do that spot and we shouldn't do this one either. Spots that require the ref to look like a narcoleptic Helen Keller are just the worst. Most of the time a spot like that looks really stupid, it's not the ref's fault, it's because either the booker (or agent or wrestlers or whomever) ordered them to do some dumb spot that the ref knows they shouldn't even be trying to sell as credible, but they've got to do it anyway. This is largely the old "referee doesn't notice a heel's cheating" for the most part; but the problem is, the audience no longer gives a fuck if the rules are broken. Seriously, that shit went out the window about the same time that Gorgeous George retired; faces break the rules all the damn time, and the fans cheer them for it because it makes them look like charming rebels who won't let The Man dictate what they can and can't do. The only reasons heel cheating ever gets any heat is because it's the heel doing it in the first place. He's already unpopular, so anything he does in the first place isn't likely to get cheered. Problem is, the heat doesn't really go on the heel; it goes on the blind damn referee for not seeing the cheating that's happening right in front of him (especially with the helpful marks in the front row screaming "HEY REFEREE, TURN AROUND, BILL DUNDEE JUST HIT JERRY LAWLER WITH A CHAIN!" and then the poor ref has to pretend like he doesn't understand what words mean. The heat goes on the ref for being such a dunce, not on the heel for taking shortcuts in the first place. WWE matches only ending with finishing moves or cheap roll ups. Some variety now and again would add some real drama to the 2.9 bomb fest matches like Cena/Owens. If Cena ever pinned anyone with his top rope legdrop, for instance, when he hit it in a big match the fans would be even more into it.Yeah. I like the WWE style more often than not, but this is one place where its psychology gets awfully loose. Why are you going for a pin after a simple move that never, ever gets a pinfall? If I was commentating the match I'd say something like "Wrestler X going for the cover, Wrestler Y pretty easily gets out of that, but by pressing the attack Wrestler X is keeping Wrestler Y off balance and not allowing them even one second's time to rest" because I was an awesome PbP guy like that, but the WWE announcers never seem to bother to do this. It's especially bad when you've got wrestlers who only have one finisher; why the hell would Stone Cold ever go for a pinfall after any other move besides the Stunner? He never wins with anything else, he never even comes close, and his overall style doesn't really play into that. Kurt Angle can be bad the same way, using a dozen suplexes to set up his finisher... the anklelock. Huh? Geez, at least guys like Flair and Bret usually bothered to do at least a little token softening-up-the-leg before putting on their submission hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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