Hagan Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Next time someone else busts out a glock during the coming attractions, you'll be thanking me for my public service. Who had five pages? In the immortal words of Slickster, "turn out the liiiiiights, this thread is ovahhhhhh." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooseCannon Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Has anyone decided that they are going to watch it just to spite Antacular? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Spanish Waiter Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 BUTTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fresh Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Has anyone decided that they are going to watch it just to spite Antacular? I YouTubed J.R.'s announcement last night, but that doesn't help prove the point since we all already know I'm unethical. Ant strikes me as a guy who wants people to believe he's much smarter than he actually is. I've never seen someone so insecure on this board before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I like to type words in all CAPS! It makes them seem more IMPORTANT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Has anyone decided that they are going to watch it just to spite Antacular? I YouTubed J.R.'s announcement last night, but that doesn't help prove the point since we all already know I'm unethical. Ant strikes me as a guy who wants people to believe he's much smarter than he actually is. I've never seen someone so insecure on this board before. I guess you didn't get the memo about YouTube views not mattering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 You know what depraved sex act "Over the Edge '99" is code for? (You'll all thank me later ...) The horrid part is, between this posting & this subsequent edit I actually came up with an answer. I'm truly a rotten person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagan Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I like the idea that arguing this makes one a WWE apologist. If there's one thing wrestling fans on the Internet are known for it's defending the McMahon family and their corporate practices. The fact that the Internet hasn't exploded with outrage kind of shows how much of a non-issue it is. Not that it doesn't suck, or that people can't see the other side, but it's just not a big issue assuming they handle it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manzk Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 It's not offensive to me, I didn't lose anyone. There is, however, a certain family in Canada that would find you to be a rather deplorable character. They're on the payroll, relax. Dude, the show is what it is, maybe some people want to see what happens when you have people working after such an event, maybe it can be a learning experience and set a standard on what to do on these cases. Do you think that every film and book that covers nazi camps or 9/11 are tasteless? Why would Owen's family even care, it's not like the WWE is making money out of Owen's death: a documentary would be more like it; they are just putting the show there and saying "dude, ya know what happen, if you want to see tha tapes, you can, if you don't, go watch some Chris Benoit or Tennesse wrestling or ECW." I think more people would be offended by Russo's WCW booking than by OTE'99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Oh man, that's a great question. Not to get all Quakenbush on wrestling as performance but I'll give my answer a shot. Well, definitely some guys become better "story-tellers" in the WWF than they were in the indies or even WCW. The WWF was always less about flashy movies, and creativity, than in pacing, heavily protected spots and finishers, and matches that told a story. Even in the Hogan-era when the NWA had the stiffer matches, violence, and workers who were a bit more unshackled in what they could do, the WWF still managed to push a narrative in their matches that even the littlest kid in the back row could get. Generally, with few exceptions, wrestlers are performing in front of crowds 4 or 5 times larger in WWF on a weekly basis so it becomes very much more about slowing things down and letting everyone catch up to the ride, rather than the rollercoaster in front of a smaller, but probably more rabid crowd. Would ROH Seth Rollins and Daniel Bryan or, before the walk-out, Punk be just as over with WWE crowds if they were working ROH style, or even a more NJPW-pace. My hunch is not because I think the crowd would just get desensitized to it or they wouldn't understand the story because it would too fast or too flashy. It would be a spectacle when the WWE has tried to teach their fans to follow the plot. To be fair, Bryan would probably be fine in any format. I have often thought that the WWE should go that WCW route and just sign some super fast, flippy workers and have them go out for 20 minutes and see what happens. I mean, this is a wrestling audience that nearly shit their pants when John Cena got spiked by Punk with a pile-driver. How would they have reacted to a freed-from-limitation Mistico or a fresh from ROH Davey match? I think it would get over big initially and then just kind of die out. And the bigger issue is that then you follow with the main eventers doing 30 minutes, slower-psychology paced matches and you would get a jarring disconnect. I mean, as has been noted this week, Dolph Ziggler wrestles so fast that it's one of the reasons his act is dying. He's going so fast it's actually causing him to be a poor worker. And Dolph is still only about 80 percent at some of the upper-end indy guys. When the WWE hit that 2000 or so era with Angle and Benoit basically ushering in the King's Road head-dropping era of main event matches, you had some absolutely incredible wrestling but it had the result of shortening a lot of guy's career, at best, killing them at worst, and resulting to the point where finishers were starting to get killed. So, when the slowdown happened around the Cena-era it definitely resulted in a bit of a letdown because guys weren't killing themselves as much, but they managed to retrain the audience to accept, like, a fireman's carry as a finisher, or Orton's chinlock as a viable spot. Whether or not we think that Jericho's 1999 stuff holds up, and it was really rough early and he didn't have a lot to work with, there's no doubt that his best run was that heel run when he was with Shawn and became much more of a character-based wrestler. Say what you will about Kane but Kane's going to be remembered for a lot of great stories, and Jericho really only has the Shawn deal as a great story. Actually, the whole idea that Kane isn't a good worker was always silly because basically everyone that has ever worked with him said he was, and he's been perpetually over since 1997. Okay, so I went all over the map here, but...I think that the WWF has always had an idea of what its main event style should be, and with the exception of the dark reign of Kurt Angle, it's been pretty consistent. As wildly different workers as they were, Hogan matches, Bret matches, Shawn matches, Austin matches, Hunter matches, and Cena matches always had a very particular style, pacing, and story within them. I don't think that really existed in other companies devoid of WWF influence. I mean, Flair had his routine and his psychology, of course, but I'd take Hogan/Savage WM V over the Clash match that day because Hogan/Savage was a fucking epic operatic tragedy. So, I just think that we, as fans, have been conditioned that WWE main event epic style is the right kind of wrestling, especially for a company playing to the millions and not the thousands. Of course, your mileage on this may vary depending on what you thought about the Mania sage of Shawn/Flair, UT/Shawn, UT/Shawn II, Hunter/UT II, and Hunter/UTIII. I loved them all and think they're, basically, everything that story-telling paced wrestling should be, though I admit that the slow-motion epic selling starts to border on parody after a while. This is a worthwhile post and it's a shame it'll get buried here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 You know what depraved sex act "Over the Edge '99" is code for? (You'll all thank me later ...) ...when you're banned? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antacular Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Has anyone decided that they are going to watch it just to spite Antacular? I YouTubed J.R.'s announcement last night, but that doesn't help prove the point since we all already know I'm unethical. Ant strikes me as a guy who wants people to believe he's much smarter than he actually is. I've never seen someone so insecure on this board before. I don't know what this means. One guy claims I'm a narcissist, then you say I'm insecure. What am I insecure about? At least I can concur on the narcissism charge. It's not offensive to me, I didn't lose anyone. There is, however, a certain family in Canada that would find you to be a rather deplorable character. They're on the payroll, relax. Dude, the show is what it is, maybe some people want to see what happens when you have people working after such an event, maybe it can be a learning experience and set a standard on what to do on these cases. Do you think that every film and book that covers nazi camps or 9/11 are tasteless? Why would Owen's family even care, it's not like the WWE is making money out of Owen's death: a documentary would be more like it; they are just putting the show there and saying "dude, ya know what happen, if you want to see tha tapes, you can, if you don't, go watch some Chris Benoit or Tennesse wrestling or ECW." I think more people would be offended by Russo's WCW booking than by OTE'99 Jesus fucking christ, why is Owen's death being compared to 9/11 or Nazis?? The Nazis and 9/11 were REAL THINGS, they had an actual impact on the course of human events. Owen died during a meaningless ENTERTAINMENT performance. The comparisons aren't even in the same league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 You realize that insecurity is a trait of a couple sub-types of Narcissism, right? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antacular Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Sure. So explain to me what I'm "insecure" about. Because typically, if one believes "that person isn't as smart as he wants us to think he is," the one making the claim would actually try to retort with a counterargument, rather than accuse said party of performing some type of voodoo on everyone else. It's a cop out for dumb people who don't know how to make a coherent point in the face of adverse opinion. Oh nooooo, I've gone and cast my spellz again~~! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagan Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 This is a worthwhile post and it's a shame it'll get buried here. Thanks, man. Writing that allowed me take a break from grading Comp 1 papers, so it was time well-spent. The Nazis and 9/11 were REAL THINGS, they had an actual impact on the course of human events. Owen died during a meaningless ENTERTAINMENT performance. The comparisons aren't even in the same league. Owen's death was a real thing that affected the an industry, changed safety features in wrestling, and had an impact on a wide variety of important characters in the history of the sport. By this logic, OTE should be released uncut because of its historic, albeit, tragic nature. Seriously, the only one that's shitting on Owen's death is you, not the WWE, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 You know what depraved sex act "Over the Edge '99" is code for? (You'll all thank me later ...) ...when you're banned? I'd like to think that no one wants to see me banned; I was thinking more along the "something that would herald the thread closing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Sure. So explain to me what I'm "insecure" about. Because typically, if one believes "that person isn't as smart as he wants us to think he is," the one making the claim would actually try to retort with a counterargument, rather than accuse said party of performing some type of voodoo on everyone else. It's a cop out for dumb people who don't know how to make a coherent point in the face of adverse opinion. Oh nooooo, I've gone and cast my spellz again~~! I could pyscho-analyze you if you *really* want me to, but most people charge $150 an hour, at least. I only take cash, and I don't accept any health plans yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antacular Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 The Nazis and 9/11 were REAL THINGS, they had an actual impact on the course of human events. Owen died during a meaningless ENTERTAINMENT performance. The comparisons aren't even in the same league. Owen's death was a real thing that affected the an industry, changed safety features in wrestling, and had an impact on a wide variety of important characters in the history of the sport. By this logic, OTE should be released uncut because of its historic, albeit, tragic nature. Seriously, the only one that's shitting on Owen's death is you, not the WWE, dude. Obviously his death was real... My point was that it occurred in the course of something that was purely of fictional entertainment value, whereas 9/11 and the holocaust were carried out in the course of actual human events, not for entertainment (except for Eva). Entertainment performances, whether wrestling or movies (i.e. The Crow), lose any sort of enjoyment merit once a death occurs in the course of producing said entertainment. That's the principle I'm applying here. Watching said event in no way increases the viewers understanding of how it "affected an industry," "changed safety features," and quite frankly, it's "impact on a wide variety of important characters in the history of the sport" is completely irrelevant. These are all issues that can be better understood without watching OTE at all. I loathe typing this, but if one wanted to understand how 9/11 changed airport security, they wouldn't watch video of the planes actually striking the building (Or rather, footage of the buildings right before or right after they were struck). Sure. So explain to me what I'm "insecure" about. Because typically, if one believes "that person isn't as smart as he wants us to think he is," the one making the claim would actually try to retort with a counterargument, rather than accuse said party of performing some type of voodoo on everyone else. It's a cop out for dumb people who don't know how to make a coherent point in the face of adverse opinion. Oh nooooo, I've gone and cast my spellz again~~! I could pyscho-analyze you if you *really* want me to, but most people charge $150 an hour, at least. I only take cash, and I don't accept any health plans yet. So you make an assertion, when pressed for clarification of that assertion, dodge it completely. My spellz are clearly ineffective against you. Well played, Dr. Seuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fresh Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Still so much fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manzk Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Why do they lose all value? Isn't entertainment important? Why do entertainers make so much money? Why does entertainment generate so much revenue? Isn't it worse if someone tries to make money out of a tragedy, ie: making movies about the holocaust and 9/11 to generate revenue than it is show the people what happened after the Owen incident? Even if you think that PPV lost all its merit, why does that mean that it has to be censored and no one should be able to have access to it ever? No one will force you to watch it, there will be lot's of stuff on the Network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuetsar Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I would think the reason is hasn't been available on DVD was based on the Martha Hart suit. If there's no conflict with the settlement, I suppose its okay to put up the network. Vince is a scumbag for a million reasons besides this, so its not like he's going to level up based on these going-to-hell points. Is it in really poor taste? I think so, but given the turnover in wrestling fandom, what percentage of current fans even know that Owen died on that night? Probably a lot smaller than we think. . . I would never watch it, and have alot more things on my plate to wag my finger at who ever does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I think they should add a setting to the network that will delete anyone's account if OTE is the first show they watch on it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivpvideos Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 But I really want to see Nicole Bass & Val Venis vs Jarrett and Debra! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 By that logic, there would be no point in anyone posting on the internet ever. I don't care enough to write to WWE or form some sort of club against it to get the event pulled. I just take issue with sycophants praising the Es decision to do so, when NO ONE has ever claimored for its release before this. You care enough to cry, bitch, and rage about it for pages, but seriously not enough to do anything about it? Holy shit, that's pathetic. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antacular Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Still so much fun... If me making you look like an ass is as much fun for me as it is for you, then this must be like your birthday, New Years, and Christmas all rolled into one. Why do they lose all value? Isn't entertainment important? Why do entertainers make so much money? Why does entertainment generate so much revenue? Isn't it worse if someone tries to make money out of a tragedy, ie: making movies about the holocaust and 9/11 to generate revenue than it is show the people what happened after the Owen incident? Even if you think that PPV lost all its merit, why does that mean that it has to be censored and no one should be able to have access to it ever? No one will force you to watch it, there will be lot's of stuff on the Network. Sure entertainment is important. But not as important as, you know, not dying. It's not worse, because those are HISTORICAL OCCURANCES IN THE COURSE OF HUMAN EVENTS, not EQUIPMENT MALFUNCTIONS IN THE MIDDLE OF A STAGED PERFORMANCE. Further, both 9/11 and the Holocaust were deliberately planned by those who committed the acts, Owen's death was a freak accident. You can use footage of both events to teach people the sad, possible nature of human actions. What does one get from watching OTE? That they should think twice before using any safety harness? Why is this so hard for people to understand. Censoring it and not having it available are two different things. By editing the PPV and putting it up, WWE is effectively censoring it. So you think it should go up uncensored, as is? Counterpoint: Why must people have access to it? What does a viewer lose by NOT having access to it? (Answer: Nothing) By that logic, there would be no point in anyone posting on the internet ever. I don't care enough to write to WWE or form some sort of club against it to get the event pulled. I just take issue with sycophants praising the Es decision to do so, when NO ONE has ever claimored for its release before this. You care enough to cry, bitch, and rage about it for pages, but seriously not enough to do anything about it? Holy shit, that's pathetic. Is this your first day on the internet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now