AEW - OCTOBER 2024

[Octopus]

2 hours ago, Casey said:

I don’t know, I’m not a wrestling booker and my focus during that time wasn’t on Bryan. Take a wild guess as to who I cared about more (and still do). All I’m saying is, they wasted the limited time they had with Bryan on shit like a Bobby Fish or Aaron Solo singles match.

It’s all different strokes, guys. This is exactly what’s going on in the PPV thread. A dude who loves Mox can’t understand why people don’t love it too, but also admitted he would feel the same way we do now if it was Adam Cole in that spot. I mean…

A dream match (for me) isn’t Bryan versus Dustin or Daniel Garcia of all people. But I also have no dream matches for him because he’s not exactly my cup of tea, and like I said earlier - I was kinda focused on the run of someone else.

Totally get the different strokes, don’t expect or think everyone should like the same things.

 I’m thinking the first two years had both dream matches and also story building tv matches. To me, it wasn’t all one or all the other. And the mix is what I want.

I do understand the potential wincing at the Danielson talk when people are quick to call him GOAT and when you don’t look at him (or Citizen Kane or the Beatles or whatever parallel we hear in other topics) as such. It’s easy and in my opinion good to push back to create a more in-depth conversation.

I respectfully think “huge swings and misses” is an overstatement. If you truly believe that, then that’s completely fair and a properly not at all overstatement lol. The lists I laid out is my thoughts on why I disagree with that and outside of a complete overhaul of fantasy storylines and title changes, I don’t see how it could have been head and shoulders better than what we got. Granted, I am saying that as a fan of the guy. This reminds me of how I can find Zoe Deschanel annoying at times. I know she’s funny and her shows great, but idk it doesn’t always click with me. I said that in 2012ish and it lead to an outnumbered debate where I couldn’t say anything outside of “idk, it’s just how I feel” lol. So I’m totally cool if either he isn’t your cup of tea or the run itself. I’m just enjoying talking with you and don’t take this as anything confrontational or serious.

Also, if you can, have a little empathy for us super American Dragon fans. We’re seeing our favorite ride off into the sunset. Thankfully on his own terms (even though he was limping) when everything after his return from forced retirement has been like this miracle baby boy for us. A lot of emotions. Especially the All In win making me legit tear up and the recent Nigel match having me smile so wide the entire time. It was something magical for us. The Punk return had a sour taste from the drama sadly, but the good moments were truly spectacular.  Dragon had less drama, but a few injuries. Even with that, I can confidently say this was my favorite time watching professional wrestling largely because of Danielson. But maybe also because I could share it with you guys. 

[Octopus]

1 hour ago, Gordi the recovering AEW f said:

 

It's pretty likely the "all the good guys band together" part of the story will win me back. I'm not quite ready to give up on AEW just yet. 

 

 

It’ll likely lead to some pretty cool AEW friendship stories. 

[Go2Sleep]

My buddy and I had a thought experiment during Wrestledream, and I thought I would pose it here:

What is the worst possible Continental Classic lineup AEW could run with their roster?

I think we came up with Aaron Solo, Billy Gunn, Butcher, Jacked Jameson, Vincent, Marq Quen, Angelo Parker, Max Caster, Ogogo, Cutler, and the Von Erich Grandkids. There's also a case that replacing one of those guys with a washed dude like Jericho or Dustin which adds to the depressing factor even though it increases the name value.

[Curt McGirt]

21 minutes ago, Go2Sleep said:

a washed dude like Jericho or Dustin

[Infinit]

I'm pretty sure we will still get some dream matches/bangers from "part time Dragon". I'm betting on him being a "mystery partner" (probably for Darby) before Revolution.

[Gramsci]

In his latest interview, Danielson talked about how excited he gets when he talks about possible matches against Darby Allin, Kenny Omega or Orange Cassidy. The guy loves this too much and he'll be back as a wrestler. That's for sure. Plus, he still has an apuestas match in Mexico on his bucket list.

For me, his booking hasn't been all that satisfying (that endless feud with JAS, some defeats...), but I think his in-ring run has been one of the best I've ever seen, especially in 2021 and 2024.

My only issue with Danielson's booking, and this is a general issue in AEW, is that I think they didn't capitalize on his arrival and CM Punk's. I understand the stories they wanted to tell with both of them, and they didn't want to let the end of the Omega/Page storyline go, but the fear of being told "LOL, you're like TNA with the ex-WWE guys" was detrimental to them. Hangman Page looks much more prepared to be world champion now than he did 3 years ago, MJF's reign exposed him as someone who was not quite ready for that position, and we lost months of Danielson and Punk as legitimate Main Eventers who could move the needle. 

[Kevin Wilson]

4 hours ago, Gramsci said:

In his latest interview, Danielson talked about how excited he gets when he talks about possible matches against Darby Allin, Kenny Omega or Orange Cassidy. The guy loves this too much and he'll be back as a wrestler. That's for sure. Plus, he still has an apuestas match in Mexico on his bucket list.

For me, his booking hasn't been all that satisfying (that endless feud with JAS, some defeats...), but I think his in-ring run has been one of the best I've ever seen, especially in 2021 and 2024.

My only issue with Danielson's booking, and this is a general issue in AEW, is that I think they didn't capitalize on his arrival and CM Punk's. I understand the stories they wanted to tell with both of them, and they didn't want to let the end of the Omega/Page storyline go, but the fear of being told "LOL, you're like TNA with the ex-WWE guys" was detrimental to them. Hangman Page looks much more prepared to be world champion now than he did 3 years ago, MJF's reign exposed him as someone who was not quite ready for that position, and we lost months of Danielson and Punk as legitimate Main Eventers who could move the needle. 

Its an interesting debate. I know when Adam Copeland came in some people were still mad he didn't 'put over' more wrestlers in his last WWE run and then he immediately goes into a feud with Christian which made it appear that was his motivation for coming to AEW. But since he already had the star power, experience, and fan base I don't think it would have been the end of the world if they had strapped him up rather then having the MJF/Samoa Joe situation, then have Cope lose to Swerve. The plus side is he came in champion-ready by any standard but the issue with him (and Punk/Danielson when they arrived) is potential backlash from the AEW diehards for pushing hard ex-WWE wrestlers. In hindsight I do think Cope would have been a better transitional champion than Samoa Joe, aside from Joe getting the belt as a "thank you" for being a stabilizing force during a rough period.

[COLETTI]

I am not stoked at all for another Mox run as champ and the whole BCC "takeover" thing is boring because it's been done sooooooo many times BUT! If they start making their way to the ring first thing Wednesday and are IMMEDIATELY swarmed by attacking AEW babyfaces and chased out of the building without a word being said until later? That would get my blood pumping. This shit should be on fucking sight. 

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

1 hour ago, COLETTI said:

I am not stoked at all for another Mox run as champ and the whole BCC "takeover" thing is boring because it's been done sooooooo many times BUT! If they start making their way to the ring first thing Wednesday and are IMMEDIATELY swarmed by attacking AEW babyfaces and chased out of the building without a word being said until later? That would get my blood pumping. This shit should be on fucking sight. 

I do think they’d need to have Orange Cassidy show more fire than usual for it to work though. Him walking to the ring all casual while Darby, Garcia, Jarrett, and whomever are swarming the BCC wouldn’t work. Otherwise I love your idea. 

I also hope they do the Shane McMahon reveal soon and don’t drag it out until Full Gear. If I were booking I’d have Worlds End be the big battle between AEW and The BCC to set up whatever the title programs are for the Australia show. It would tie in to the name of the show perfectly too.

[FourPostMassacre]

1 hour ago, COLETTI said:

I am not stoked at all for another Mox run as champ and the whole BCC "takeover" thing is boring because it's been done sooooooo many times BUT! If they start making their way to the ring first thing Wednesday and are IMMEDIATELY swarmed by attacking AEW babyfaces and chased out of the building without a word being said until later? That would get my blood pumping. This shit should be on fucking sight. 

I like this except for the part where they get chased out of the building. I know they are the heels but for the first TV show they need to leave me thinking by the end “Who is going to be able to stop a group this strong?”.

I am not calling for the whole babyface side to be made to look weak just their are ways like using numbers to make the BCC seem unstoppable and keep people strong. 

[Technico Support]

2 hours ago, Kevin Wilson said:

The plus side is he came in champion-ready by any standard but the issue with him (and Punk/Danielson when they arrived) is potential backlash from the AEW diehards for pushing hard ex-WWE wrestlers. In hindsight I do think Cope would have been a better transitional champion than Samoa Joe, aside from Joe getting the belt as a "thank you" for being a stabilizing force during a rough period.

I think AEW diehards (anti-WWE people like myself?) would have given Punk or Danielson a pass because both guys did a ton of indy work before their WWE runs, and still had that cred.  Edge, on the other hand?  Dude's whole career was WWE and his first world title run was like two decades ago.  It's not like AEW putting the belt on the Miz, but it's close.  Also, I just don't feel like Copeland was ever a main eventer.  He was a glorified upper midcarder that drew with other main eventers, but never one himself.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

6 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I think AEW diehards (anti-WWE people like myself?) would have given Punk or Danielson a pass because both guys did a ton of indy work before their WWE runs, and still had that cred.  Edge, on the other hand?  Dude's whole career was WWE and his first world title run was like two decades ago.  It's not like AEW putting the belt on the Miz, but it's close.  Also, I just don't feel like Copeland was ever a main eventer.  He was a glorified upper midcarder that drew with other main eventers, but never one himself.

Edge worked Canadian indies as early as 1992, did tours of Japan in 1998, and even worked as a WCW job guy. Just because he came up before indie taping was more common doesn't mean that time should be erased, especially since footage is still available via YouTube.

Edited October 14, 2024 by Stefanie Sparkleface
Forgot when his Tokyo Pro tours happened; it was 1998, not 1996

[Technico Support]

1 minute ago, Stefanie Sparkleface said:

Edge worked Canadian indies as early as 1992, did tours of Japan in 1996, and even worked as a WCW job guy. Just because he came up before indie taping was more common doesn't mean that time should be erased, especially since footage is still available via YouTube.

Ah, thanks!  I knew he did some Canadian indies but didn't know the rest.  To your point, the lack of tape and/or anyone caring about seeing it as opposed to Danielson and Punk's indy runs definitely paints that difference in perception.

Edited October 14, 2024 by Technico Support

[SovietShooter]

44 minutes ago, Just Adam Bay Bay said:

I also hope they do the Shane McMahon reveal soon and don’t drag it out until Full Gear.

I would rather Galactus consume all of the Earth's life-energy than to see a McMahon on my television ever again.

[Kevin Wilson]

I can see your point that Copeland had more WWE stink on him since that is where virtually everyone knows him from, I wouldn't put him at the Miz-level which seems mean but there definitely would have been some backlash if he was immediately put into the main title picture and won it. Whether people would have grumbled but kept watching or got turned off by it completely I don't know.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

3 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Ah, thanks!  I knew he did some Canadian indies but didn't know the rest.  To your point, the lack of tape and/or anyone caring about seeing it as opposed to Danielson and Punk's indy runs definitely paints that difference in perception.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aiMHJPEPBA - "Damon Striker" vs Meng

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x30dXi7kGG8 - vs Kevin Sullivan

[NoFistsJustFlips]

Man this whole talking point that has existed since WWE started it's monopoly of pushing "ex WWE guys" being bad has to stop. Who cares where someone came from. If they're a good and over character / wrestler, push them.

Swerve is an "ex WWE guy" and he's so fucking good / over. Should a segment of the fanbase be pissed he came into his own and earned a run on top because of where he was previously? It's demeaning to go, well this guy spent time on the indies first so he's good for business and this guy didn't so he's bad for business.

WWE's hottest boom period was based around pushing ex-WCW guys. Austin, Triple H, Taker, Foley. Didn't see anyone caring. Let dudes have the freedom to freshen up and evolve without dismissing them outright for where they used to work.

[Kevin Wilson]

8 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Man this whole talking point that has existed since WWE started it's monopoly of pushing "ex WWE guys" being bad has to stop. Who cares where someone came from. If they're a good and over character / wrestler, push them.

Swerve is an "ex WWE guy" and he's so fucking good / over. Should a segment of the fanbase be pissed he came into his own and earned a run on top because of where he was previously? It's demeaning to go, well this guy spent time on the indies first so he's good for business and this guy didn't so he's bad for business.

WWE's hottest boom period was based around pushing ex-WCW guys. Austin, Triple H, Taker, Foley. Didn't see anyone caring. Let dudes have the freedom to freshen up and evolve without dismissing them outright for where they used to work.

Not saying I agree with those that think that but I think the complaint is wrestlers that come from WWE and are immediately pushed hard, rather then "working their way up" like Swerve did. Personally, I think if someone is ready to go then you don't hold them back just based on where they came from last.

[Curt McGirt]

If you have all the faces come at BCC then I want them all holding railroad spikes and throwing fireballs. 

[Technico Support]

"Heel faction trying to take over the company for........reasons" is really a tough plane to land.  I'll give TK credit so far for at least trying to not make them cool heels who end up cheered over the square babyface company men.  I'm hoping this angle works out.  I don't have high hopes, though, because, in kayfabe, I don't see the logic in "taking over" a company.  What are their goals?  I have never seen anything above "uhhh, well, we want the belts and the money."  Is Mox going to put himself in charge of payroll and whatnot?  Maybe Pac can interview the Summer interns?  Will Yuta arrange the holiday party?

 

Edited October 14, 2024 by Technico Support

[HarryArchieGus]

On 10/13/2024 at 11:56 AM, Octopus said:

I just went through all the AEW World title matches on Cagematch for fun. I might be super in the minority but this Danielson run is something I’m very high on. Had a defining and consistent story and character throughout. References and matches with the future, present, and past. It had what will likely be some of my all time favorite moments (All In win, bag over head, and the Nigel match). Also, it set the big story up for the next chapter of AEW. 

This was more than the restoring moral reigns of Mox and Joe. And even though specific moments I would have wished differently, it was much more consisten in story and didn’t over stay it’s welcome  than MJF. Hangman’s was underrated but people say it failed to capture the excitement post-build whereas this created stories. Maybe I’ll do a cute reign ranking and be cute later.

With how much pain it sounds like Danielson was in, being able to ride all this out is very impressive. 

Completely with you. I'm especially down with this divisive decision to be killed off by the top heel group/former friends. Some of these arguments sound like ppl not being able to get out of the way of their own fantasy booking/expectations. Further, I fail to see how Danielson's run is tainted by his choice of TV showcase bouts. It would be impossible, with the state of his body, for every one of his matches between Supercard/PPVs to be some sort of high calibre Dream Match. Not that he didn't try, and few Danielson matches in this entire run weren't at the very least interesting to good. I'm forgetting one that was merely good? I feel extremely grateful that his health stood up to the challenge of this AEW run. Also, I believe Bryan did what he wanted to, and earned that right. That adds significantly to every decision made in this run.

Lastly, strange seeing these sad posts about Danielson never having fought this person or that person? I believe Bryan Danielson retired on Sunday night about as much as I believe he was nearly killed. He's been pretty clear all along that this is not a retirement but rather the end of his 'full time career'. Anything more recently suggesting otherwise is hard not to read as 'working'. 

Edited October 14, 2024 by HarryArchieGus

[Nice Guy Eddie]

1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

If you have all the faces come at BCC then I want them all holding railroad spikes and throwing fireballs. 

I want Darby using the flamethrower on the BCC. 

[tbarrie]

4 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Also, I just don't feel like Copeland was ever a main eventer.  He was a glorified upper midcarder that drew with other main eventers, but never one himself.

No offense, but I think you're using the term "main-eventer" - which I would argue is a somewhat objective term - to justify your opinion of Copeland. I think the guy has main-evented more than twenty pay-per-views for WWE, including two Wrestlemanias. What sort of numbers do you need to be a real main-eventer?

And just to make this a Technico reply doubleheader...

2 hours ago, Technico Support said:

"Heel faction trying to take over the company for........reasons" is really a tough plane to land.  I'll give TK credit so far for at least trying to not make them cool heels who end up cheered over the square babyface company men.  I'm hoping this angle works out.  I don't have high hopes, though, because, in kayfabe, I don't see the logic in "taking over" a company.  What are their goals?  I have never seen anything above "uhhh, well, we want the belts and the money."  Is Mox going to put himself in charge of payroll and whatnot?  Maybe Pac can interview the Summer interns?  Will Yuta arrange the holiday party?

 

Quoted in full because I like the joke, but has Mox even said he's trying to take over the company? As far as I'm aware he hasn't said much of anything about what his end goal is. (Which will itself become a problem if the writers don't spill the beans soon.)

[zendragon]

4 hours ago, SovietShooter said:

I would rather Galactus consume all of the Earth's life-energy than to see a McMahon on my television ever again.

I'm with you but kinda want the Chaos os Shane O'Mac showing up in AEW

[Technico Support]

2 hours ago, tbarrie said:

No offense, but I think you're using the term "main-eventer" - which I would argue is a somewhat objective term - to justify your opinion of Copeland. I think the guy has main-evented more than twenty pay-per-views for WWE, including two Wrestlemanias. What sort of numbers do you need to be a real main-eventer?

And just to make this a Technico reply doubleheader...

 

Quoted in full because I like the joke, but has Mox even said he's trying to take over the company? As far as I'm aware he hasn't said much of anything about what his end goal is. (Which will itself become a problem if the writers don't spill the beans soon.)

Well Kane did main events, too, but does anyone look back on him as a “main eventer?”  I guess I should use the HHH term “tippy top guy” instead.  Edge may have worked mains, but he was never a top guy.